M
MIZER
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This is the key. You are absolutely 100% correct.
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M
MIZER
Guest
starwynd,
I find your argument for keeping the violent killing of children legal to be very disturbing. You say:
Of course for their unborn child, the one who will be violently killed by that CHOICE, “things” couldn’t get much worse.
I find your argument for keeping the violent killing of children legal to be very disturbing. You say:
Allowing the violent killing of children, even paying for it, hasn’t made “things” better for desperate women. Things are better for desperate women today due to the advent of antibiotics and the proliferation of Crises pregnancy centers to facilitate the support of unwed pregnant women. Women who fail to avail themselves of the support offered them, through CPC’s, those choosing instead to rely on antibiotics alone and choose, CHOICE for their child, will find that “things” are still pretty bad for them.things were pretty bad for desperate women when it was illegal.
Of course for their unborn child, the one who will be violently killed by that CHOICE, “things” couldn’t get much worse.
M
MIZER
Guest
Starwynd,
It seems your whole argument on this thread is that it would simply cost the tax payer too much money if abortion where to be made illegal by a federal ban.
Regardless of the issue I become incredulous the minute someone starts talking about how this or that is too expensive or how much this will “cost the taxpayer,” blah, blah, blah. There is so much waste and fraud being perpetrated on the American people when it comes to fiscal aspects of our government that we can’t even imagine what is and is not possible. We spend something like $20,000.00 per year, per student, on k-12 public education in this country, and it still isn’t enough to properly teach math, english and history to the children who survive the womb. We spend an untold amount of money on the most rediculous pork style spending projects we can imagine and since 1973 we have spent and continue to spend millions (billions?) of tax dollars every year proping up the biggest abortion provider in the world, Planned Parenthood. You don’t seem to have a problem with this hugh amount of our money being spent to violently kill the babies. Why is it a problem for you to use the money, our money, to save the babies and incarcerate those who would murder them?
It seems your whole argument on this thread is that it would simply cost the tax payer too much money if abortion where to be made illegal by a federal ban.
Regardless of the issue I become incredulous the minute someone starts talking about how this or that is too expensive or how much this will “cost the taxpayer,” blah, blah, blah. There is so much waste and fraud being perpetrated on the American people when it comes to fiscal aspects of our government that we can’t even imagine what is and is not possible. We spend something like $20,000.00 per year, per student, on k-12 public education in this country, and it still isn’t enough to properly teach math, english and history to the children who survive the womb. We spend an untold amount of money on the most rediculous pork style spending projects we can imagine and since 1973 we have spent and continue to spend millions (billions?) of tax dollars every year proping up the biggest abortion provider in the world, Planned Parenthood. You don’t seem to have a problem with this hugh amount of our money being spent to violently kill the babies. Why is it a problem for you to use the money, our money, to save the babies and incarcerate those who would murder them?
R
rwoehmke
Guest
I am no champion of abortion, but if Roe v. Wade were overturned tomorrow it would then become a matter for the individual states. I can only imagine that there will be a few states which will retain legalized abortion. People will go there if they so chose. There will than be lawsuits based on the 14th amendment for equal treatment in the states under the law. It will be back in the lap of the federal government. Utopia is a long time coming and the most effective way to fight and prevent abortion is to change hearts. There are a lot of woman out there who would never have an abortion themselves, but still hold that it should be a free choice. It is those women who would chose abortion where we could make the biggest dent. Why mess with the free choicers who will never use it?
I cannot remember a time before Roe v. Wade when a woman who wanted an abortion couldn’t get one. Illegal or no, it was not just “back alley” stuff, although there was always some of that. I personally know no one who was ever brought up on charges let alone convicted. When it comes to beating back the scourge of abortion, it is the local life care centers which have and will continue to have the greatest impact. We need more of them and better support. They directly influence those who might be inclined to abort so my decision would be to put time, money, and effort there and not expect miracles to happen when and if “the law or constitution” ever changes.
I cannot remember a time before Roe v. Wade when a woman who wanted an abortion couldn’t get one. Illegal or no, it was not just “back alley” stuff, although there was always some of that. I personally know no one who was ever brought up on charges let alone convicted. When it comes to beating back the scourge of abortion, it is the local life care centers which have and will continue to have the greatest impact. We need more of them and better support. They directly influence those who might be inclined to abort so my decision would be to put time, money, and effort there and not expect miracles to happen when and if “the law or constitution” ever changes.
J
JesuXPIPassio
Guest
Mizer’s got a point. A few years ago, it cost $400,000 to run Air Force One for one hour, not even counting the cost of staffing it. I’m betting the cost would have risen much since then, as the gas prices have risen so sharply. If the plane were being used only for official things, that’s fine, but it’s also used for silly things like campaigning, and that’s just not cool. That’s just one wasteful thing they do with tax money.Starwynd,
It seems your whole argument on this thread is that it would simply cost the tax payer too much money if abortion where to be made illegal by a federal ban.
Regardless of the issue I become incredulous the minute someone starts talking about how this or that is too expensive or how much this will “cost the taxpayer,” blah, blah, blah. There is so much waste and fraud being perpetrated on the American people when it comes to fiscal aspects of our government that we can’t even imagine what is and is not possible. We spend something like $20,000.00 per year, per student, on k-12 public education in this country, and it still isn’t enough to properly teach math, english and history to the children who survive the womb. We spend an untold amount of money on the most rediculous pork style spending projects we can imagine and since 1973 we have spent and continue to spend millions (billions?) of tax dollars every year proping up the biggest abortion provider in the world, Planned Parenthood. You don’t seem to have a problem with this hugh amount of our money being spent to violently kill the babies. Why is it a problem for you to use the money, our money, to save the babies and incarcerate those who would murder them?
The government will say they can’t afford certain things. That’s just rubbish. They should *find *a way to afford it. That’s why they’re there. That’s why we pay them. That’s why we elect them.
For some better examples of absolutely ridiculous governmental spending, take a look at cagw.com, the site for Citizens Against Government Waste.
Also check this out books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=PaVB0JHZzLYC&dq=Citizens+against+government+waste&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=LDODP6CieZ&sig=-CmCow-c5DcumZOzNM89903G-bI#PPA1,M1
These are portions of a book from CAGW that discusses some waste.
I’m not saying that CAGW is perfect and I’m not endorsing them (they lobbied for tobacco), but on many issues, they have researched and do show us some good examples of mismanagement of tax money. The organisation is far from perfect, but its message is still very much valid.
If they can pay for a lot of things that are stupid and not necessary, they can certainly find a way to make room to financially cover the necessity of fighting the mass murder of children.
N
Neil_Anthony
Guest
Most pro-life people agree that the serious punishments would be for the abortion provider rather than for the woman. Compare this to the drug user vs the drug seller. The person making a profit from a crime and doing it repeatedly should be treated more harshly.Here are some ramifications to consider.
Who would pay for the new space to hold the hundreds of thousands of new convicts? For those interested, here’s a list at how much we’re spending:
ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/exptyptab.htm
(Direct expenditures by criminal justice function, 1982-2005)
Who would go to jail? The woman? The doctor? Both? Anybody who supported the abortion financially?
Would you support the death penalty for those getting the abortion since in some states that means abortion crimes will be eligible for the death penalty should the abortion become defined as murder?
If abortion is to be defined as murder, then that means there will be hundreds of thousands new inmates. Will you be bothered by that?
There would have to be some consequences for women seeking abortion and their male accomplices, but it would be something like community service and attending classes about the sanctity of life and abstainance.
So, there wouldn’t be a huge change in the number of people in prison.
M
marymol
Guest
One of the the most important part of the equation we seem to forget is , if we do trust in God and do things accordingly what the possibilities are …
We who read the Word , are we not told time and again what they are …
And in our own times too …
Eucharistic pilgrimage cruise , may be the factor in the predicted severe hurricane season having been thwarted …
Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of a diocese helping to end the drought …
The miracle of life itself in the womb - God breathing in a soul , life that starts from almost nothing … all those organs so well developed in such a short time …a soul , with a body , on its way …to be with all of heaven … with each of us …for all eternity , to sing His praise …
Does destruction of such a life create something like a black hole in the universe …that sucks in much good …and spews out torrents of destructive debris …
Would we have already been blessed with the wisdom of something like clean fusion energy …safe environements , if we had embraced Godly wisdom …even wisdom to have more control over our own (sexual ) appetite, so that children would be born in love and acceptance …
With God, things are possible …
We who read the Word , are we not told time and again what they are …
And in our own times too …
Eucharistic pilgrimage cruise , may be the factor in the predicted severe hurricane season having been thwarted …
Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of a diocese helping to end the drought …
The miracle of life itself in the womb - God breathing in a soul , life that starts from almost nothing … all those organs so well developed in such a short time …a soul , with a body , on its way …to be with all of heaven … with each of us …for all eternity , to sing His praise …
Does destruction of such a life create something like a black hole in the universe …that sucks in much good …and spews out torrents of destructive debris …
Would we have already been blessed with the wisdom of something like clean fusion energy …safe environements , if we had embraced Godly wisdom …even wisdom to have more control over our own (sexual ) appetite, so that children would be born in love and acceptance …
With God, things are possible …
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