Should alcohol consumption be allowed at parish meetings?

[Margarite]

Oh Yeah I forgot:

“It comes in Pints?” Pippin, Fellowship of the Ring

Tolkien was a very devout Catholic.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think the thread has gotten away from the title…and its initial intent. Should there be drinking at parish meetings? I personally don’t see the need…but, that doesn’t mean I don’t have a nice glass of wine or a pomegranite (sp?) ha martini at home…or at a restaurant with my husband. Or even have a glass of wine at a social gathering. Banning drinking at parish meetings, is not saying that Catholics don’t advocate drinking wine socially…it simply means that they don’t want alcohol at parish meetings. There’s no need to extend that as meaning something that no one is implying, really. I think that if it is shown as being a positive in the Bible, then it’s a positive for us–in social settings. At dinners. At celebrations. But, parish meetings? Not seeing the need. And that doesn’t make me a puritan, or a prude…it makes me practical…that’s all. But, that is my opinion…everyone is entitled to his/her own…just thought the topic was straying from its basic intent. The title isn’t…‘is there something wrong with drinking?’

Have a merry and safe Christmas everyone!

 

[dessert]

I think the thread has gotten away from the title…and its initial intent. Should there be drinking at parish meetings? I personally don’t see the need…but, that doesn’t mean I don’t have a nice glass of wine or a pomegranite (sp?) ha martini at home…or at a restaurant with my husband. Or even have a glass of wine at a social gathering. Banning drinking at parish meetings, is not saying that Catholics don’t advocate drinking wine socially…it simply means that they don’t want alcohol at parish meetings. There’s no need to extend that as meaning something that no one is implying, really. I think that if it is shown as being a positive in the Bible, then it’s a positive for us–in social settings. At dinners. At celebrations. But, parish meetings? Not seeing the need. And that doesn’t make me a puritan, or a prude…it makes me practical…that’s all. But, that is my opinion…everyone is entitled to his/her own…just thought the topic was straying from its basic intent. The title isn’t…‘is there something wrong with drinking?’

Have a merry and safe Christmas everyone!

**Peace!!! and Merry Christmas to you and All ; every one drive sensibilly and alert! **

 

[THurifer2]

you are kidding right? lol There were no cars back then, and DUI’s are not a figment of anyone’s imagination. If you have more than one drink…and then shortly drive thereafter…rolling your eyes won’t help you, I’m afraid. This isn’t about the wedding at Cana…or a wedding at all…it’s about a parish meeting and drinking responsibly.

You are kidding that I was kidding right? This thread has had its fair share of tirades against drinking. Some have even implied that ANY drinking is bad. Now I am sure you know the wedding at cana story. Now connect the dots and realize my post was meant to impy that even the Lord Jesus Christ supplied alcohol for people. Again alcohol is a gift from god and those who cannot get over the taboo need to realize that even their God drank. If one does not want to drink that is great. if one does responsible then that is Great.

I personally wouldn’t do it but but if alcohol is a gift from God then why can it not be used in meetings? If in moderation?

 

[TIME]

You are kidding that I was kidding right? This thread has had its fair share of tirades against drinking. Some have even implied that ANY drinking is bad. Now I am sure you know the wedding at cana story. Now connect the dots and realize my post was meant to impy that even the Lord Jesus Christ supplied alcohol for people. Again alcohol is a gift from god and those who cannot get over the taboo need to realize that even their God drank. If one does not want to drink that is great. if one does responsible then that is Great.

I personally wouldn’t do it but but if alcohol is a gift from God then why can it not be used in meetings? If in moderation?

Well THefner2, Not sure you are grasping the point. What people are stating, such as WEGirl is NOT serving alcohol at parish sponsored events. It sends a much better and more professional message if their is no alcohol served at meetings. If it is an adult social event maybe. We have teenagers and never keep alcohol in the house and they do not see us drink as a matter of course. That’s the example we set for our family.

I think most office parties have gotten away from having alcohol present as well, it has gotten just too risky.

 

[THurifer2]

Well THefner2, Not sure you are grasping the point. What people are stating, such as WEGirl is NOT serving alcohol at parish sponsored events. It sends a much better and more professional message if their is no alcohol served at meetings. If it is an adult social event maybe. We have teenagers and never keep alcohol in the house and they do not see us drink as a matter of course. That’s the example we set for our family.

I think most office parties have gotten away from having alcohol present as well, it has gotten just too risky.

The point is if alcohol is good then why should it not be allowed?

Some think its not appropriate. My question is WHY? The bible and the church say it is good.

Some will say that it sends a bad message. My question is WHY should we bow down to Societies false taboos? Why is it a bad message? If somthing is good then how can it be a bad message.

What would some think of if a gradeschool teacher took a bottle of O’dooles (non alcoholic beer) to school and drank it in the Lunchroom with the kids?

Alcohol isn’t the problem, its the stupid behavior of drinking too much that is the problem. So instead of blaming behavior society blames the object…it happens all the time.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Because let’s face it, the consumption or non consumption of alcohol is basically a culturally driven affair.

The Protestants (Fundamentalists mostly) will swear that in order to be a good Christian, you can’t drink any alcohol. But we know that this is not a true spiritual standard, but a cultural one, their culture.

Most cultural things have some practical origin. I once read an interesting study published by an alcoholism institute. Statistically, certain ethnic groups have a greater tendency toward alcoholism, regardless of culture. The example I most remember (being half Irish myself) was the high rate among people of Celtic ancestry. Among most, there is a body-cooling reflex that (for reasons that are kind of complicated) they have to a very high degree, and which, which one consumes alcohol, has an enhanced brain chemistry effect, followed by a ferocious, but unrealized “body thirst” that can only be turned off by more drinking. Regarding cultures, it found very high rates among not only Irish and Scots, but among those places in the world where little Celtic islands exist. The place names are interesting: Galicia in Spain, Galizia in Poland, Galatea in Turkey, all named after the Celts or Gauls who form the major portion of the populace to this day. Some other ethnic groups have the same problem, but they’re not as well known and the examples are not as dramatic.

It was also stated that the Southern U.S. is very highly populated by people of Scottish, Irish and Scots-Irish descent (something very observable to anyone). It was thought that perhaps the Fundamentalist-leaning religions, which are most prevalent among people of that ancestry, formulated the alcohol prohibition out of, essentially, desperation in fighting a social problem that was otherwise almost intolerable. It’s a practical thing that evolved into a religious thing, but doesn’t truly apply to everyone.

Mediterraneans, on the other hand, do not exhibit either the unusual body-cooling reflex (called the “wash down reflex”) or the brain chemistry super-high that Celtic people tend to have. They get just a bit joyous and relaxed, but then, upon further drinking, simply get slowly anaesthetized and stop. Consequently, Italians, Jews, Greeks and other Mediterranean people have very low alcoholism rates.

Continental Europe is a very mixed place, but other than in those “Gaulic” pockets, alcoholism is relatively low. In Germany, for example, there are even low-alchol but nourishing beers that are manufactured for childrens’ consumption. Many Italian and Greek children begin drinking wine at a very early age. But the alcoholism rates there are not high.

Depending on the general propensities of the parishioners, I think alcohol at Church events could be a problem, but in others, it might be no problem at all.

Having been also blessed with Italian and Alsatian (Avar?)ancestry, but still being cautious, I have watched my alcohol intake because of the Irish ingredient. But my Germanic wife and I have been careful to introduce our children to wine at very early ages, but in very small quantities. We have always disdained drunkenness and made it clear to our children that we do. When our children were teenagers, we did not hesitate to “crack a beer” with them in the country on a hot day. Adults now, not one of them has any trace of an alcohol problem, though all will drink on occasions that seem to call for it. I don’t know whether that’s mostly genetic or because of the way we dealt with alcohol. But I don’t think it’s out of place, always and everywhere, in church functions. In fact, if done properly, it might teach a better attitude that might serve well when their teenage friends can’t seem to live without drinking themselves into a stupor.

 

[THurifer2]

I

Most cultural things have some practical origin. I once read an interesting study published by an alcoholism institute. Statistically, certain ethnic groups have a greater tendency toward alcoholism, regardless of culture. The example I most remember (being half Irish myself) was the high rate among people of Celtic ancestry. Among most, there is a body-cooling reflex that (for reasons that are kind of complicated) they have to a very high degree, and which, which one consumes alcohol, has an enhanced brain chemistry effect, followed by a ferocious, but unrealized “body thirst” that can only be turned off by more drinking. Regarding cultures, it found very high rates among not only Irish and Scots, but among those places in the world where little Celtic islands exist. The place names are interesting: Galicia in Spain, Galizia in Poland, Galatea in Turkey, all named after the Celts or Gauls who form the major portion of the populace to this day. Some other ethnic groups have the same problem, but they’re not as well known and the examples are not as dramatic.

It was also stated that the Southern U.S. is very highly populated by people of Scottish, Irish and Scots-Irish descent (something very observable to anyone). It was thought that perhaps the Fundamentalist-leaning religions, which are most prevalent among people of that ancestry, formulated the alcohol prohibition out of, essentially, desperation in fighting a social problem that was otherwise almost intolerable. It’s a practical thing that evolved into a religious thing, but doesn’t truly apply to everyone.

Mediterraneans, on the other hand, do not exhibit either the unusual body-cooling reflex (called the “wash down reflex”) or the brain chemistry super-high that Celtic people tend to have. They get just a bit joyous and relaxed, but then, upon further drinking, simply get slowly anaesthetized and stop. Consequently, Italians, Jews, Greeks and other Mediterranean people have very low alcoholism rates.

Continental Europe is a very mixed place, but other than in those “Gaulic” pockets, alcoholism is relatively low. In Germany, for example, there are even low-alchol but nourishing beers that are manufactured for childrens’ consumption. Many Italian and Greek children begin drinking wine at a very early age. But the alcoholism rates there are not high.

Depending on the general propensities of the parishioners, I think alcohol at Church events could be a problem, but in others, it might be no problem at all.

Having been also blessed with Italian and Alsatian (Avar?)ancestry, but still being cautious, I have watched my alcohol intake because of the Irish ingredient. But my Germanic wife and I have been careful to introduce our children to wine at very early ages, but in very small quantities. We have always disdained drunkenness and made it clear to our children that we do. When our children were teenagers, we did not hesitate to “crack a beer” with them in the country on a hot day. Adults now, not one of them has any trace of an alcohol problem, though all will drink on occasions that seem to call for it. I don’t know whether that’s mostly genetic or because of the way we dealt with alcohol. But I don’t think it’s out of place, always and everywhere, in church functions. In fact, if done properly, it might teach a better attitude that might serve well when their teenage friends can’t seem to live without drinking themselves into a stupor.

I have heard the “wash down” reflex is getting more and more watered down with each generation. SO things look good.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I

I have heard the “wash down” reflex is getting more and more watered down with each generation. SO things look good.

Yeah, but I still get a pretty good lift out of that first shot of Jameson’s on St. Pat’s, particularly if “Rising of the Moon” is being sung at the time, and it’s “washed down” with a swallow of Guinness. I tell my wife it’s in my DNA, and she puts up with the Jameson’s and Guiness once a year, but she still doesn’t care to hear a bunch of people sing “Rising of the Moon”.

These Germans just don’t get it.

 

[whatevergirl]

You are kidding that I was kidding right? This thread has had its fair share of tirades against drinking. Some have even implied that ANY drinking is bad. Now I am sure you know the wedding at cana story. Now connect the dots and realize my post was meant to impy that even the Lord Jesus Christ supplied alcohol for people. Again alcohol is a gift from god and those who cannot get over the taboo need to realize that even their God drank. If one does not want to drink that is great. if one does responsible then that is Great.

I personally wouldn’t do it but but if alcohol is a gift from God then why can it not be used in meetings? If in moderation?

In moderation–yes, I agree…but if you have to vote on something in the meeting…people should be sober. Completely sober…sorry, one drink, and I need to take a nap…I guess everyone isn’t a light weight like me.

 

[whatevergirl]

The point is if alcohol is good then why should it not be allowed?

Some think its not appropriate. My question is WHY? The bible and the church say it is good.

Some will say that it sends a bad message. My question is WHY should we bow down to Societies false taboos? Why is it a bad message? If somthing is good then how can it be a bad message.

What would some think of if a gradeschool teacher took a bottle of O’dooles (non alcoholic beer) to school and drank it in the Lunchroom with the kids?

Alcohol isn’t the problem, its the stupid behavior of drinking too much that is the problem. So instead of blaming behavior society blames the object…it happens all the time.

No, your last statement…I agree with. Alcohol should be used in moderation–I have not a thing against drinking wine…whatever …in one’s own home. I am missing the point of why there is such a debate of why it needs to be at a meeting…a professional meeting where you are often deciding things that affect the parish, perhaps…I don’t think I have ever been a parish meeting where there was alcohol. But, I have been to parish social events, ie the Knights of Columbus Christmas party, where people brought their own wine/beer, for example. That is a bit different, because it’s a social gathering…LIKE THE WEDDING OF CANA.

 

[whatevergirl]

I meant to add that drinking in moderation is ok in restaurants, weddings…social events too…that statement above makes it look like i would only have a glass of wine in my home ha. I tried to edit that, but it didn’t work.

 

[TIME]

Alcohol at Social events, fine. Alcohol at a business meeting, no. Not even a business meeting for a non profit organization. It is just unprofessional.

 

[whatevergirl]

Alcohol at Social events, fine. Alcohol at a business meeting, no. Not even a business meeting for a non profit organization. It is just unprofessional.

Yeah, I guess I’m not getting the strong defense for why alcohol belongs at a professional/or church meeting…social event, yes I agree…thus the wedding at cana parallel.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Yeah, but I still get a pretty good lift out of that first shot of Jameson’s on St. Pat’s, particularly if “Rising of the Moon” is being sung at the time, and it’s “washed down” with a swallow of Guinness. I tell my wife it’s in my DNA, and she puts up with the Jameson’s and Guiness once a year, but she still doesn’t care to hear a bunch of people sing “Rising of the Moon”.

These Germans just don’t get it.

I’m German. And I prefer to be drinking my beer while listening to a Polka played by guys in leiderhosen

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m German. And I prefer to be drinking my beer while listening to a Polka played by guys in leiderhosen

Yes, and I expect you wear blue on St. Joseph’s day and make that braided bread and have sauerkraut with beer and little bits of bacon in it and brats. Or perhaps that potato soup that’s heavy with cream and bacon. My Teutonic wife does those things. I have to admit I like the bread and the sauerkraut and brats and potato soup, and she’s stunning in blue. Okay, I’ll admit to one more thing. When it comes to German vs. Irish cooking, particularly if you include Austrian baking on the German side of the ledger, there’s really no contest. My wife taught herself to make Sachertorte mit schlag, and there’s just nothing on this earth as good as that. HOW did you Germans EVER come up with that?

But “Rising of the Moon” is a terrific song! What do you Germans have to even begin to compare with it, I ask?

 

[Andruschak]

It is BYOB here. That way no can be held responsible.

With that in mind…the protestant roots of our countrys history have a lingering affect that mixing religion and alcohol are Taboo.
Even so that some mainline denominations have revised religious history regarding the subject of wine not really being wine but unfermented grape juice.

Which is nonsense, of course. Grape juice turns into wine with little or no effort. It wasn’t until the 19th century that Pasturization came along and made it possible to store grape juice for any length of time without turning into wine. A guy named Welch made a fortune from this fact

 

[THurifer2]

Yes, and I expect you wear blue on St. Joseph’s day and make that braided bread and have sauerkraut with beer and little bits of bacon in it and brats. Or perhaps that potato soup that’s heavy with cream and bacon. My Teutonic wife does those things. I have to admit I like the bread and the sauerkraut and brats and potato soup, and she’s stunning in blue. Okay, I’ll admit to one more thing. When it comes to German vs. Irish cooking, particularly if you include Austrian baking on the German side of the ledger, there’s really no contest. My wife taught herself to make Sachertorte mit schlag, and there’s just nothing on this earth as good as that. HOW did you Germans EVER come up with that?

But “Rising of the Moon” is a terrific song! What do you Germans have to even begin to compare with it, I ask?

I will chime in here. Me Irish She German so we are in the same boat. My family is outgoing and boisterous and her family is …well…German. But they can cook the pants off of us. I do love the Germans though they actually are boisterous. Us irish can be downright obnoxious at times. We got em beat music wise…isn’t most of American country and pop music decendent of irish folk? I do love polka music though.

 

[puzzleannie]

Having worked in the Texas Legislature (and witnessed some of the liquor laws being passed), I can understand your parish’s concerns. Texas does have some strict liability laws (as well as a ban on open-containers in the vehicle, regardless of who possesses it).

Texas is also notorious for being the state with most liability lawsuits, and the most generous juries. the diocese has a policy, find out what it is, and adopt it. no theological debate is necessary.

 

[marci]

As far as the original question goes, “Alcohol at Meetings”, why would it be considered in and of itself wrong?

I have personally attended lunch meetings where business was discussed and decided apon while alcohol was consumed.

MANY a deal has been brokered during “Happy Hour”, or on the golf course over a few brews.

I wonder how many of our nations founding fathers indulged during the various meetings debating our budding democracy.

If a meeting takes place in a church, then is it wrong? Does it send the wrong message? Why, if there is nothing wrong with drinking? If in fact drinking is good, which I think has been shown, than why would it be taboo at a church meeting? If alcohol is consumed during other times in secular society where business is discussed or decided, why not by Godly men and woman at church?