Should all rites become one?

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David_B

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Might there be a reason all rites (and ritual churches) of the church become one? One day might there be an advantage that wherever there is a church united with Rome the same Divine Liturgy (Mass) will be celebrated within it?

No more churches separated by ethnic or socio-political reasons. Entering a Catholic church will be just that…one united to the successor of Saint Peter.

Perhaps it could integrate elements from all the different liturgies used throughout the church, Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, The Roman Missal, older liturgies such as the Sarum Rite, etc.

Or is it that our diversity gives of strength in how we worship? Just as there is strength in having Benedictines, Dominicans, and Carmelites with very different ways of worshipping?
 
Personally I can see no benefit and numerous problems with any such attempt.

Deacon Ed
 
Sure great idea, NOT, want the Eastern Church to leave and join the Orthodox?
 
In this one “super rite”, would married priests be allowed?
 
The Second Vatican Council was firm in asking the Oriental Churches to rediscover their authentic roots in Sacred Tradition. Since their foundation is directly attributed to the Apostles it is very important for the intergrity of Sacred Tradition that they retain their unique qualities as it only serves to help enrich the faith.
 
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Catholic2003:
In this one “super rite”, would married priests be allowed?
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Sure, why not, it’s the ORIGINAL TRADITION!

And we can use Aramaic, the ORIGINAL language of the Liturgy, since it’s the language Jesus spoke!!!
 
I am speechless at the thought that people would even entertain this idea.
 
David B:
Might there be a reason all rites (and ritual churches) of the church become one? One day might there be an advantage that wherever there is a church united with Rome the same Divine Liturgy (Mass) will be celebrated within it?
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No way!
I want a place to escape to if the wacko liturgical experimenters decide to take over another one of my parishes.
The one I’m in now is the only orthodox in my vicariate.
 
This question was definitely tongue in cheek. I was wondering if there’d be anyone out there to support this idea, as it seems like some people can say ridiculous things particularily in debates with the Orthodox. But I think I’ll be able to sleep better tonight knowing that no one out there is supporting abolishing all the rites in favor of a “super” rite.
 
David B:
Or is it that our diversity gives of strength in how we worship? Just as there is strength in having Benedictines, Dominicans, and Carmelites with very different ways of worshipping?
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The last paragraph is, IMHO, a good statement…and why some of us who love the Mass of Paul VI hope that the TLM is permitted. Diversity doesn’t mean weakness (at least in this question), uniformity doesn’t mean strength.
 
David B:
Or is it that our diversity gives of strength in how we worship? Just as there is strength in having Benedictines, Dominicans, and Carmelites with very different ways of worshipping?
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Of the three you listed, I think only the Dominicans carried parts of their rite over into the Mass today. The Carmelites surrendered their rite totally with the advent of the 1970 Missal.

I am not sure about the Benedictines. I know the Trappists retain some of their rite but in all truth, most Roman Catholics would not notice any of the differences between these rites and the Mass at their own parish.

As for one super rite? Why?
 
Might there be a reason all rites (and ritual churches) of the church become one? One day might there be an advantage that wherever there is a church united with Rome the same Divine Liturgy (Mass) will be celebrated within it?
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I don’t think that’s totally realistic at this time, but there would be something to be said for the minority ritual churches within an individual nation such as the United States, to be brought into a common rite.

The distinctive ethnic identity of Ukrainians, Rusyns or Lebanonese Maronites is eroding over the time as those folks intermarry and become assimilated into a common American identity. (The same is certainly true of the various ethnic identities of Latin rite Catholics- Irish, Polish, Slovak, Italian, etc.)

And just as the various national parishes of those nationalities have been largely merged into geographical parishes, this seems to be the next logical step.

An archbishop named Ireland, tried and failed to bring together all of the immigrant Catholic groups of America 100 years ago and failed. Maybe in the 21st century??
 
This is Latinism which is an offense against Catholic teaching. Our Holy Father Leo XIII said it best. Its Our wish that the whole church be Catholic,not necessarily " Latin ".
The Other Rites are Integral parts of the Catholic church and signs of her Universality ! Those that wish to Make the church only Roman are wrong !
It woud be better if they were better Known among the Latins and respected !
 
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ByzCath:
Of the three you listed, I think only the Dominicans carried parts of their rite over into the Mass today. The Carmelites surrendered their rite totally with the advent of the 1970 Missal.

I am not sure about the Benedictines. I know the Trappists retain some of their rite but in all truth, most Roman Catholics would not notice any of the differences between these rites and the Mass at their own parish.

As for one super rite? Why?
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The Dominican Rite is permitted in a few places.
The Carmelite Rite could be allowed at the orders discression.
The Franciscan Rite could be allowed at the orders discression.
The Mozarabic Rite is allowed in one place is Spain.
The Ambrosian Rite is allowed in the Cathedral in Milan.
The Carthusian Rite is still celebrated by them all.
The Benedictine Rite was the Tridentine Mass which they do not celebrate anymore publically.
 
Any need for the fusing or integration of rites implies that certain rites possess qualities inferior to other rites. Thus is untrue, since the consistent teaching of the Church is that all rites are unique, and yet equally Catholic. Anyone who proposes the integration of rites de facto denies the equality of all rites within the Catholic Church defies the doctrine that no rite is greater than another, and thus challenging the authority of the Magisterium.
 
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mosher:
The Benedictine Rite was the Tridentine Mass which they do not celebrate anymore publically.
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JMJ + OBT​

Correction: some Benedictine communities do celebrate the Tridentine Rite of Mass publicly, and with the permission of the Holy See.

Check it out:

Benedictine Monastery of Our Lady of the Annunciation of Clear Creek

I visited there in Spring '04 just as Lent was beginning. Wonderful community, young monks, beautiful liturgy, stunning devotion, unshakeable loyalty to the Magisterium and the Holy Father . . . Dom Gueranger, may God rest his soul, would be proud!

Also, do a Google search on the name of the founding abbey in France, (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fontgombault+benedictine&btnG=Google+Search) – some interesting stuff turns up.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
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mosher:
The Dominican Rite is permitted in a few places.
The Carmelite Rite could be allowed at the orders discression.
The Franciscan Rite could be allowed at the orders discression.
The Mozarabic Rite is allowed in one place is Spain.
The Ambrosian Rite is allowed in the Cathedral in Milan.
The Carthusian Rite is still celebrated by them all.
The Benedictine Rite was the Tridentine Mass which they do not celebrate anymore publically.
Click to expand...
The Carmelite Rite was also only in the Tridentine Mass.

As I said, the Order surrendered it with the coming of the new Mass.

I know this for a fact as this is one of the many questions I had when I was a candidate for entering the formation of the order.
 
David B:
Might there be a reason all rites (and ritual churches) of the church become one? One day might there be an advantage that wherever there is a church united with Rome the same Divine Liturgy (Mass) will be celebrated within it?

No more churches separated by ethnic or socio-political reasons. Entering a Catholic church will be just that…one united to the successor of Saint Peter.

Perhaps it could integrate elements from all the different liturgies used throughout the church, Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, The Roman Missal, older liturgies such as the Sarum Rite, etc.

Or is it that our diversity gives of strength in how we worship? Just as there is strength in having Benedictines, Dominicans, and Carmelites with very different ways of worshipping?
Click to expand...
All Ritual Traditions should be united in the One Holy Catholic Church. However with protections for their specific liturgical, ritual, theological and ethnic identities.

“Entering a Catholic church will be just that…one united to the successor of Saint Peter.”

This is already true. When one enters any one of the 24 Ritual Churches one enters the Catholic Church.
 
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ByzCath:
The Carmelite Rite was also only in the Tridentine Mass.

As I said, the Order surrendered it with the coming of the new Mass.

I know this for a fact as this is one of the many questions I had when I was a candidate for entering the formation of the order.
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The Carmelite Rite is a version of the Dominican Rite of mass which both pre-date the Tridentine Rite.

It is correct that they surrendered it but not in the sense that some think. Pope Paul VI asked that religious orders that had their own Rite of mass “lay aside” their traditional liturgy so that the Novus Ordo could grow and flourish. The Pope himself does not have the authority to supress ancient rites of his own authority so, any of these rites could be restablished at anytime at the discression of the religious order. However, I do not see it happening very soon. However, I would not be supprised that in time these Rites come back in relation to a universal indult of the Tridentine Liturgy because the indult would exclude these religious orders because they do not have a right to celebrate the Tridentine Rite as canon law says that a priest can only celebrate his Rite of mass unless he has permission from his ordinary and the ordinary of the other rite.

It was a very interesting thing when I was learning about this because I was asked to serve as Sub-Deacon at one time at a Dominican Rite of Mass but I was restricted in doing so because I would not have that priveledge unless I got permission from my Bishop and the Superior or the Province of Dominicans that I was working with in those days.
 
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mosher:
The Dominican Rite is permitted in a few places.
The Carmelite Rite could be allowed at the orders discression.
The Franciscan Rite could be allowed at the orders discression.
The Mozarabic Rite is allowed in one place is Spain.
The Ambrosian Rite is allowed in the Cathedral in Milan.
The Carthusian Rite is still celebrated by them all.
The Benedictine Rite was the Tridentine Mass which they do not celebrate anymore publically.
Click to expand...
Are there missals for all of these rites? :hmmm:

It would be very interesting to read them.

One rite for all would end up with a McMass. :bigyikes:

Kathie :bowdown:
 
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