Should an infidel husband sleep on the couch?

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Rence said:
If he is engaging in extramarital sexual relations of any kind, I would not sleep with him because you are opening up yourself to disease. I simply would not do it at all. And yes, he’d be sleeping on the couch and should be grateful it was still in the home. I would not remain with an unrepentent and repeating infidel. It’s dangerous and I (and you) deserve better than that.

If I knew the lap dancing is as far as it goes, and if I knew for sure that he wasn’t cheating on me, I would sleep with him — but I couldn’t ever sleep with a man that I “hate”. I’m not sure if you’re using the word “hate” loosely, but I couldn’t give my body to someone that I didn’t love. Yes, your body belongs to your husband, and his body belongs to you, and this is a reciprocal relationship. But wives (and husbands for that matter) are not sexual slaves of their spouses, and remember that sex is sinful if there is no mutual consent. I would not allow myself to be coerced into sexual relations with anyone, even if that anyone was my husband. That’s not to convey that sex is a ‘weapon’, because it’s not, but again, consent is a requirement.
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“If I knew the lap dance was as far as it goes”…Please see my response to Joseph Varga
 
Corinne3 said:
Dear Friends:

You know my story and saga, but I really would like your replies specifically to my particular question. Thank you so much here.

I have 2 threads going, but at this point I really would like your Catholic-Christian thoughts too.

Should a husband that is continuing to choose infidelity and ongoing nude lap dances be banned to sleeping on the couch/or am I the one who is wrong in insisting this? Thank you.

FYI, anyone reading this for the first time: here’s the situation:

Hubby going to nude strip joints endlessly, not thinking there is anything wrong with it, etc., etc…separated 4 times in past 2 years over it. Hubby non-repentant/non-remorseful, still choosing to engage in it, etc.

As a faithful Catholic, is it wrong to shut my husband out sexually, and out of our bedroom because of his behavior? I feel I have my boundaries here, but I’d like to find out the right and Godly thing to do, regardless of what I want. I want to do what God wants.

Thoughts? I simply hate him for his infidelity, FYI.

Thank you all.
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Wow - you must want to be a Saint really badly - because if I had an unrepentant, unwilling husband who drop kicked monogamy to the door, I would drop kick him to the door (not literally - not condoning violence just a saying)- but prior to doing that I would make very sure that I had seperate accounts had my name off of the checking account or his off of your checking account, had the credit cards in your name or have your name taken off the credit cards he uses. Not to mention the scarriest thing, what if one of these females hes messing with has some kind of disease? Guess what, if you are intimate with him again, you could deffinately get it. I understand, the husband you married you loved - but this is no longer that same man. Yes it says for better or for worse, but it doesn’t say you have to be with him when he’s worse and not even trying to get better. I can’t believed you havn’t kicked him out yet! Good luck - I know a lot of us are praying for your situation!
God Bless
Rye
 
Joseph_L_Varga said:
Be careful - how could she know that lap dancing is as far as it goes? Skin contact without actual intercourse, oral sex, or intercourse with condoms can also transmit STDs. And just what are her assurances that he doesn’t have oral sex, or even sexual intercourse, with the stripper? Believing what he says would be the height of foolishness.

I know I am wasting my time here - Corinne has been warned multiple times by multiple people, but she just won’t listen. Until she will find it out the hard way… 😦
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I don’t think she can know Joseph, I agree. It’s something she should be thinking about. Some people might think it’s acceptable that he’s only going to strip joints for lap dancing…as if that’s all there is to it…
 
e3342 said:
Many people have a mistaken view of what the average lap dance entails. I am going through the same thing with my husband. The “accepted” view is that the man must sit on his hands throughout the whole thing, and that not all lap dances involve the dancer touching the man, some just dance very close. What actually happens at most of them is far from that. The man’s hands are allowed anywhere. And for a price, he can have any form of sex. They are basically prostitutes. Mine thinks everything was AOK because he did not have intercourse!!! Men who use lap dancers like the euphemism “lap dance” because it appeals to their twisted morals and desensitized view of pornography.
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You’re right, and I know this bit of info you’re providing. What I don’t understand is what compells Catholic women to even wonder that they have the obligation and should be sleeping with these men in the first place after they find out about their extra-marital activities. That’s the sad part of all of this.
 
Corinne, if you were my sister I would beg you to go to a doctor and be checked for any
disease.

And I think that when a man goes to a place wher a lap dance could occur is being disrespectful to his wife, I don’t think a woman needs to have lap dances either, btw.

If “sleeping on the couch” is a metaphor for not being intimate with him, heck YES!!! he should sleep on the couch.
 
I was speaking with a good friend concerning adultry and she is a gynocologist. She told me that it is very common and extremely sad when a woman comes in for an exam and finds out she has an STD. She said the response is always the same, “But I am married and have been faithful to my husband”. She then said almost immediately the facial expression changes when they realize the STD came from the huband. She said it is very sad to see the anguish this causes when they find out.

I am also not understanding anyone that thinks it is OK for a husband to waltz into a strip joint at all—lap dance or not.

Why would anyone consider this normal behavior or acceptable?
 
1ke said:
Here is what the Church teaches, via canon law, regarding conjugal relations with an adulterous spouse:

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.

Can. 1152 §1. Although it is earnestly recommended that a spouse, moved by Christian charity and concerned for the good of the family, not refuse forgiveness to an adulterous partner and not disrupt conjugal life, nevertheless, if the spouse did not condone the fault of the other expressly or tacitly, the spouse has the right to sever conjugal living unless the spouse consented to the adultery, gave cause for it, or also committed adultery.

§2. Tacit condonation exists if the innocent spouse has had marital relations voluntarily with the other spouse after having become certain of the adultery. It is presumed, moreover, if the spouse observed conjugal living for six months and did not make recourse to the ecclesiastical or civil authority.

§3. If the innocent spouse has severed conjugal living voluntarily, the spouse is to introduce a cause for separation within six months to the competent ecclesiastical authority which, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to consider carefully whether the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault and not to prolong the separation permanently.
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1KE:

I am still trying to dicipher above. Tell me please what should I do?
My h is still choosing to go to strip clubs and I just cannot take it anymore.
 
But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matthew 5:28
 
let’s agree on one thing: lap dances are a form of adultery. Jesus was clear in Matthew 5:28 that aultery in one’s heart is a reality. lap dancing is NOT adultery in one’s heart. it’s adultery in one’s body.

you are the injured spouse. as rotten and unfair as that is, as much as you want to wish things to go backward, as scared as you are to move forward or anywhere, justice ***demands ***you make appropriate responses:
Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.
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you have to continue sex with him unless you have legitimate cause. let’s see if you do… or, if not, what else should happen:
Although it is earnestly recommended that a spouse, moved by Christian charity and concerned for the good of the family, not refuse forgiveness to an adulterous partner and not disrupt conjugal life, nevertheless, if the spouse did not condone the fault of the other expressly or tacitly, the spouse has the right to sever conjugal living unless the spouse consented to the adultery, gave cause for it, or also committed adultery.
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my reading: first choice: forgive. but you can’t forgive obstinance because it doesnt seek forgiveness.
next choice, you have the right to end sexual relations with him UNLESS:
you approved of the adultery
you caUSED the adultery (wow. this is the proverbail can of worms, eh?)
you also committed adultery

from your stories, none of this seems to be the case expressly, but let’s look at tacit approval:
§2. Tacit condonation exists if the innocent spouse has had marital relations voluntarily with the other spouse after having become certain of the adultery. It is presumed, moreover, if the spouse observed conjugal living for six months and did not make recourse to the ecclesiastical or civil authority.
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so, did you sleep with him after the lap dances? or did you only resume sexual relations with him ***only after ***he expressed (however falsely) contrition? did you stay living with him for 6 months after unrepented lap dancing without seeking counsel i.e., lawyer and/ or priest?
§3. If the innocent spouse has severed conjugal living voluntarily, the spouse is to introduce a cause for separation within six months to the competent ecclesiastical authority which, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to consider carefully whether the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault and not to prolong the separation permanently.
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if you stop sleeping with him, you must move to separate from him within 6 months. you must go to the church-- to the diocese would be my gusss-- and they will help you determine if you should be moved to forgive or remain living on your own.

my overall reading: if you had sex and continued living with him after unrepented lap dances, then you must go confess to a competent priest. you must say you tacitly condoned his adultery by means of inactivity or ignorance.

furthermore, to my reading, unrepentant adultery demands a severance of sexual relations. extended severance of sexual relations demands an appeal to separate or reconcile. i.e., the known adultery just can’t go on and on without appropriate response of the injured party. but neither can severed sexual relationship go on and on without a separation.

you have basic 2 choices, corrine:

*do little or nothing or lots of loud, mad useless stuff and in essence, approve of his adultery

*begin to act appropriately as the injured spouse, following Church directives that promote justice and dignity.
 
I’d be clear on how his actions make you feel and impact your feeling for him and then ask that he sleep on the couch until you two work through the situation. If anything, it’ll make him think and buy you some time to decide what you are going to do.

It is clearly not a good situation if he’s in the clubs. You might find out that you’ll need to do some changing as well.

Good luck and my prayers are with you.
 
Sorry? I need to do some changing? *I have bent over backwards trying to help my hubby in every way possible under God’s sun here. I examined myself, lost weight, got myself looking super again like I did when we married, affirmed, went to counseling for myself, both of us went to endless counseling, went to marriage encounter, went to other marriage conferences, sent him to an extensive weekend for men with porn issues called “Ev ery Man’s Battle”, etc.,m etc., NOTHING has made a hoot of a difference. Nothing. My h does not want to change you see. it has nothing to do with me, or how beautiful I am. I learned this lesson in such a hard way. There is nothing wrong with me/. I have a perfect figure, we always had great sex, I was always the loving caring wife, kept the perfect home, tried to raise Godly kids, tried, I say…still HE chose to be an infidel.

My heart is crushed.
 
How disheartening is this? someone comes along implying what is so untrue. I guess on a forum no one really knows anyone else’s issues, so it is normal I guess.

Thank you all for reading my thread.

FYI: My h has still not even bothered to speak to me. What does that show?
 
Corinne3 said:
Sorry? I need to do some changing? *I have bent over backwards trying to help my hubby in every way possible under God’s sun here. I examined myself, lost weight, got myself looking super again like I did when we married, affirmed, went to counseling for myself, both of us went to endless counseling, went to marriage encounter, went to other marriage conferences, sent him to an extensive weekend for men with porn issues called “Ev ery Man’s Battle”, etc.,m etc., NOTHING has made a hoot of a difference. Nothing. My h does not want to change you see. it has nothing to do with me, or how beautiful I am. I learned this lesson in such a hard way. There is nothing wrong with me/. I have a perfect figure, we always had great sex, I was always the loving caring wife, kept the perfect home, tried to raise Godly kids, tried, I say…still HE chose to be an infidel.
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Hon, NOBODY is perfect. I interpreted the comment that maybe *you *need to do some changing as well to mean that the way you are dealing with this situation may need some changing. I think that’s a pretty reasonable assumption since what you are doing now doesn’t seem to be working for you.

Nobody is suggesting that you are to blame for your husband’s behavior and infidelities.
 
Of course you are heartboken and crushed. It is terribly heartbreaking when there is cheating and lying going on in a marriage. It doesn’t matter if you are a blond bombshell, if your husband wants to cheat he will. It is his lack of morals and character and has little to do with what you look like. Ask Christy Brinkley. 😉

You are asking if an adulterer should sleep on the couch and I don’t feel he should.

I am of the opinion that he should be sleeping over at his girlfriend’s house and wonder why he isn’t. Why are you still with him? Why are you allowing yourself to live in this obvious misery ?

Furthermore, why did you allow him back into your bed? You felt sorry for him? What??

Listen, you have had three years to get your ducks in a row and you have not. If you are afraid to leave, worried that you can’t make it on your own just say so and quit jumping from one thread to the next asking the same questions trying to gain more sympathy and then getting huffy with those trying to help you. Everyone has tried to help you even researched sources for you and still here you are, on a BB, asking the same people the same questions and getting the same answers.

You have been given good assistance and you really do know what you need to do.
 
I can understand why Corinne slept with her husband after she found out about the lap dances. I did too. At first, I wanted to be with him all the time. Later, I found out about something called “hysterical bonding”. It’s a psychological phenomenon all betrayed spouses go thru at first. It’s like you want to lay claim to what is yours. It’s a very sad and frustrating time to go through.
 
Corinne3 said:
How disheartening is this? someone comes along implying what is so untrue. I guess on a forum no one really knows anyone else’s issues, so it is normal I guess.

Thank you all for reading my thread.

FYI: My h has still not even bothered to speak to me. What does that show?
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That it’s time to change the locks and leave his luggage on the lawn.
 
monicatholic said:
let’s agree on one thing: lap dances are a form of adultery. Jesus was clear in Matthew 5:28 that aultery in one’s heart is a reality. lap dancing is NOT adultery in one’s heart. it’s adultery in one’s body.

you are the injured spouse. as rotten and unfair as that is, as much as you want to wish things to go backward, as scared as you are to move forward or anywhere, justice ***demands ***you make appropriate responses:

you have to continue sex with him unless you have legitimate cause. let’s see if you do… or, if not, what else should happen:

my reading: first choice: forgive. but you can’t forgive obstinance because it doesnt seek forgiveness.
next choice, you have the right to end sexual relations with him UNLESS:
you approved of the adultery
you caUSED the adultery (wow. this is the proverbail can of worms, eh?)
you also committed adultery

from your stories, none of this seems to be the case expressly, but let’s look at tacit approval:

so, did you sleep with him after the lap dances? or did you only resume sexual relations with him ***only after ***he expressed (however falsely) contrition? did you stay living with him for 6 months after unrepented lap dancing without seeking counsel i.e., lawyer and/ or priest?

if you stop sleeping with him, you must move to separate from him within 6 months. you must go to the church-- to the diocese would be my gusss-- and they will help you determine if you should be moved to forgive or remain living on your own.

my overall reading: if you had sex and continued living with him after unrepented lap dances, then you must go confess to a competent priest. you must say you tacitly condoned his adultery by means of inactivity or ignorance.

furthermore, to my reading, unrepentant adultery demands a severance of sexual relations. extended severance of sexual relations demands an appeal to separate or reconcile. i.e., the known adultery just can’t go on and on without appropriate response of the injured party. but neither can severed sexual relationship go on and on without a separation.

you have basic 2 choices, corrine:

*do little or nothing or lots of loud, mad useless stuff and in essence, approve of his adultery

*begin to act appropriately as the injured spouse, following Church directives that promote justice and dignity.
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Thank you so much MonicaCatholic! This is excellent and well thought out and specific info I need as a Catholic. The only thing is, he this time is refusing to move out! The other 4 times, he wasn’t refusing. Plus back to the money situation. It won’t be like this forever I know it! Thanks again!
 
e3342 said:
I can understand why Corinne slept with her husband after she found out about the lap dances. I did too. At first, I wanted to be with him all the time. Later, I found out about something called “hysterical bonding”. It’s a psychological phenomenon all betrayed spouses go thru at first. It’s like you want to lay claim to what is yours. It’s a very sad and frustrating time to go through.
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We went through this hysterical bonding too!!! It never worked in the long run! I did everything to change myself, to no avail. I was too stupid then to know any better. Did you go through this too?

Also I believed him when he said he wanted me and his family over her. So…we resumed relations. All the while he was lying, still doing it behind my back. It was never over and still isn’t. :mad:
 
horselvr said:
Of course you are heartboken and crushed. It is terribly heartbreaking when there is cheating and lying going on in a marriage. It doesn’t matter if you are a blond bombshell, if your husband wants to cheat he will. It is his lack of morals and character and has little to do with what you look like. Ask Christy Brinkley. 😉

You are asking if an adulterer should sleep on the couch and I don’t feel he should.

I am of the opinion that he should be sleeping over at his girlfriend’s house and wonder why he isn’t. Why are you still with him? Why are you allowing yourself to live in this obvious misery ?

Furthermore, why did you allow him back into your bed? You felt sorry for him? What??

Listen, you have had three years to get your ducks in a row and you have not. If you are afraid to leave, worried that you can’t make it on your own just say so and quit jumping from one thread to the next asking the same questions trying to gain more sympathy and then getting huffy with those trying to help you. Everyone has tried to help you even researched sources for you and still here you are, on a BB, asking the same people the same questions and getting the same answers.

You have been given good assistance and you really do know what you need to do.
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I believe Corinne said something about trying to work out her finances. It’s not always easy or even possible for a woman to live on her own with children and no support.
Women relieve stress by talking about their problem. So if it seems she is just “jumping from one thread to the next”, then that is her perogative. Again, that is how women handle stress. We must talk. Men are different in how they handle stress, and we can’t compare the two and expect them both to be the same.
 
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