Should atheism be illegal?

[Exalt]

Hmm… almost 8% say “yes.”

Very interesting, but still much lower than I thought it would be. (I was expecting around 35%)

 

[crowonsnow]

Atheism …ought to be illegal too. Also, it would be a deterrant to conversion to atheism and most likely result in significantly fewer atheists.

So, why shouldn’t atheism be illegal? Where is my logic wrong?

It is my understanding that from a Christian perspective all non-christians are atheist.

So if Christian atheism is made illegal, everyone is now forced to practice Christianity, and no other religious practices or beliefs would be permitted.

It doesn’t seem like that would work for very long.

 

[jemfinch]

Ummmm, how about the fact the United States is a democracy, not a theocracy, and one of the founding principles was freedom of religion.

First, who said anything about this being the United States? This is a morality question which would apply to all countries, not just the U.S.

Second, who’s to say that democracy is the most reasonable governmental system? Who’s to say that its founding principle of freedom of religion is a valid and good one?

Jeremy

 

[Genesis315]

Atheism is quite possibly one of the worst sins in the eyes of the Church. It includes a complete rejection of Jesus, the authority of the Church, the love of God - almost every single Catholic doctrine about the divine. It most certainly is a mortal sin, if the other two conditions for a mortal sin are met.

Other grave sins are illegal, such as murder, rape, theft, etc. Atheism, which is just as bad (if not even worse) than those sins, ought to be illegal too. Also, it would be a deterrent to conversion to atheism and most likely result in significantly fewer atheists.

So, why shouldn’t atheism be illegal? Where is my logic wrong?

Just because something is a sin, doesn’t mean the best course is for the state to outlaw it. The state should tolerate some sins if it allows for a greater good. One greater good that is promoted by tolerating false religions and atheism is the two prong right to religious liberty–that is, all people have the right to search for and come to God in truth and also no one can be coerced into coming to the faith–the assent must be free too.

Unless there is a seriously grave danger to public peace and order, it is the general opinion of the Church that making false religions or atheism strictly illegal has too much danger of stifling free assent to faith. The Church has almost always urged states to allow at least a little latitude, with even more latitude necessary in more pluralistic societies, as most modern societies are since people of different beliefs often need to live side by side in peace–outlawing one belief in such a society could be a recipe for a violent conflict which can be avoided by tolerance.

 

[Genesis315]

Here’s a good article on this principle from NewAdvent:

newadvent.org/cathen/14763a.htm

Also, see this address by Pius XII begining in section “V”:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12CIRI.HTM

Anyway, to answer the poll, the correct answer would be “it depends on the circumstances.” Given the circumstances we have in modern American society, I would say “no” is the answer for this particular situation.

 

[vern_humphrey]

It is my understanding that from a Christian perspective all non-christians are atheist.

So if Christian atheism is made illegal, everyone is now forced to practice Christianity, and no other religious practices or beliefs would be permitted.

It doesn’t seem like that would work for very long.

Your understanding is incorrect. From the Catechism:

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

 

[crowonsnow]

Unless there is a seriously grave danger to public peace and order, it is the general opinion of the Church that making false religions or atheism strictly illegal has too much danger of stifling free assent to faith.

What is the difference between false religion and atheism? How are they not the same thing? How would a state outlaw atheism without also outlawing false religions?

 

[Genesis315]

What is the difference between false religion and atheism? How are they not the same thing? How would a state outlaw atheism without also outlawing false religions?

For all practical purposes they are the same, but technically a religion is the mode by which people seek out God or gods–which atheists don’t do by definition.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I can’t believe there were actually yes votes!

You WILL believe!:hypno: :hypno:

 

[RomanCrusader]

I do honestly believe that, with certain exceptions, atheists tend to be less loyal than other citizens.

 

[Mirdath]

I do honestly believe that, with certain exceptions, atheists tend to be less loyal than other citizens.

How exactly did you arrive at this conclusion?

 

[Polaris]

I do honestly believe that, with certain exceptions, atheists tend to be less loyal than other citizens.

I would say the exact opposite. And there are quite a few socialist and democratic countries that would agree with me. Its those with faith that undermined the governments authority. For example Poland, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, India, Malayasia, Pakistan.

 

[crowonsnow]

I do honestly believe that, with certain exceptions, atheists tend to be less loyal than other citizens.

On average they certainly tend to be less dogmatic and more questioning. They tend to eschew the comfort of vertical hierarchies, tribal loyalties and the need for alpha males. Their loyalty isn’t blind, and on average they seem less superstitious than their theistic counterparts.

 

[deb1]

On average they certainly tend to be less dogmatic and more questioning. They tend to eschew the comfort of vertical hierarchies, tribal loyalties and the need for alpha males. Their loyalty isn’t blind, and on average they seem less superstitious than their theistic counterparts.

Is there some study that backs this up? Maybe you could provide a link.I do not think that atheists are less likely to be loyal or decent human beings, just because they are atheists. But I don’t think that they are better then most people either.

Sticking to the subject at hand, atheism should not be illegal. No one can be forced to believe in God, nor should they be. Besides I live in the Southeast USA and I don’t doubt that there are some extreme Fundamentalists that would gladly outlaw Catholicisim.

By protecting an atheist’s right to believe what he/she wants, I am ultimately protecting my own right to worship.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Sticking to the subject at hand, atheism should not be illegal. No one can be forced to believe in God, nor should they be. Besides I live in the Southeast USA and I don’t doubt that there are some extreme Fundamentalists that would gladly outlaw Catholicisim.

My wife had someone say, “We should never have allowed Catholics in this county.” She pointed out we were here first – DeSoto came through Stone County, Arkansas in 1541.

By protecting an atheist’s right to believe what he/she wants, I am ultimately protecting my own right to worship.

Absolutely.

And we should consider the practical question – how can the law make someone believe?

 

[CapIV]

Atheism is quite possibly one of the worst sins in the eyes of the Church. It includes a complete rejection of Jesus, the authority of the Church, the love of God - almost every single Catholic doctrine about the divine. It most certianly is a mortal sin, if the other two conditions for a mortal sin are met.

Other grave sins are illegal, such as murder, rape, theft, etc. Atheism, which is just as bad (if not even worse) than those sins, ought to be illegal too. Also, it would be a deterrant to conversion to atheism and most likely result in significantly fewer atheists.

So, why shouldn’t atheism be illegal? Where is my logic wrong?

Well, adultery, dishonoring your father and mother, and jealousy are not yet illegal. But criminalizing atheism would bring us dangerously close to several Islamic countries that punish conversion from Islam with death.

God gave us Free Will. We ought to honor this gift by allowing people to reject the natural way.

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Atheism is quite possibly one of the worst sins in the eyes of the Church. It includes a complete rejection of Jesus, the authority of the Church, the love of God - almost every single Catholic doctrine about the divine. It most certianly is a mortal sin, if the other two conditions for a mortal sin are met.

Other grave sins are illegal, such as murder, rape, theft, etc. Atheism, which is just as bad (if not even worse) than those sins, ought to be illegal too. Also, it would be a deterrant to conversion to atheism and most likely result in significantly fewer atheists.

So, why shouldn’t atheism be illegal? Where is my logic wrong?

Since atheism, contrary to many opinions here, is a religion why is this one religion “worthy” of coercive suppression in distinction to all other religions?

We are forbidden (as Christians) to coerce, but not persuade, people to “change their religion” so how would one justify doing precisely that?

 

[daeve]

.
(My emphasis.)

And how can you make people believe if they will not? Do we have mindreaders who can tell unbelievers from believers?

Just to tag onto this post: Freedom of Religion includes Freedom FROM Religion. This was a basic precept in the formation of this country.

Outlawing Atheism would be the same as the Communist countries that outlawed religion.

 

[daeve]

It is my understanding that from a Christian perspective all non-christians are atheist.

So if Christian atheism is made illegal, everyone is now forced to practice Christianity, and no other religious practices or beliefs would be permitted.

It doesn’t seem like that would work for very long.

Jews are Atheists?

Muslims are Atheists?

People who don’t believe in any God or god are Atheists.

 

[rwoehmke]

Let’s see. Ah, about 100 to 300 AD, Christians are accused of being atheists because they did not honor the gods of Rome, Several attempts were made to outlaw and stamp out this atheistic crowd. It seemed like killing them off did not seem to work very well. Certainly entertaining to watch them get what was coming to them, but gee whiz mom, they just kept infecting good citizens and slave alike, spreading like cancer.

From about 1400 to 1800 A.D. in Spain Jews and Moors were told to leave or embrace Christianity. Some did convert. Some converted and went on secretly practicing their old religion. This was not tolerated. Significant numbers were killed off, not tens of thousands as sometimes claimed, but did it spell the end of Judaism or Islam?

Apparently in the long haul, there is something about people’'s beliefs or non-beliefs that is not amendable to proclamation or legislation. With a certainty it is not the way of Jesus himself. Recall his parable about the tares in the wheat.

Just as the poor will always be with us even into paradise, there will no doubt be some atheists who will pass through the heavenly gates as well. What a surprise for them as well as some of us!