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Catholig
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If I’m not hired because of my catholic faith - well didn’t Jesus say that those who endured persecution for his sake would be rewarded?Catholig
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If I’m not hired because of my catholic faith - well didn’t Jesus say that those who endured persecution for his sake would be rewarded?Catholig
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Mirdath
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Even if he is the most qualified applicant, solely on the basis of his choice of sexual partner. If you’re going to make approval of an employee’s sex life a condition of employment, why aren’t you playing the voyeur on all prospects?
What if the gay guy is the only person interested in the job? Will that do it? Or is being able to discriminate against people you don’t approve of more important to you than owning a functioning company?
They may be rewarded in the next life, but in this one they sue.
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KarenNC
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And what criteria, exactly, are you planning to use with said employee to determine that he is gay during this interview? Most of the people that I have met that I later found out were gay did not have it tattooed on their foreheads.
How are you going to be sure your married heterosexual Catholic from your parish isn’t, unbeknownst to you, using contraception with his wife? In the Church’s teaching, that is also a perversion of sex and disordered.
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Catholig
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If I had to hire him to keep my company running - and couldn’t do anyone else (such as someone who attends my parish) a good turn, then I guess I’d hire him. I’m not sure though, because I still see it being very possible that he would contribute to some of those organizations that disrespect my faith.
In any case - that has very little to do with the government interfering and forcing me to hire anyone.
Maybe there’s a time for everything - however I don’t know if I’d sue. There’ll be other jobs, and I think my faith is more important.
Catholig
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Catholig
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Goth_Catholic
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Oh lord, so my mother is gay then for wearing the necklaces i used to make her when I was little.
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Mirdath
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You are not responsible for which charities and causes your employees donate to, nor do their private gifts reflect upon the image or reputation of you or your company. The letterhead isn’t meant for that anyway.
That isn’t what’s happening. This is the government saying you can’t not hire Joe Smith simply because he’s gay, just as you already can’t refuse him simply because he’s black, Muslim, or a woman.
Catholig, there’s gay… and then there’s flaming gay. Your standard non-flamer probably wouldn’t even raise a blip on your gaydar.
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Catholig
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No, but it’d be kind of telling if the person is an adult male who is applying for a job, while wearing some kind of rainbow paraphenalia
I wanted to say the bit about the voice - but I dont’ exactly know the cause and it could be that some non gay people have effeminate voices as well…
Catholig
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Goth_Catholic
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hahahaha, clearly you haven’t seen pictures of Johnny Depp. He wears the necklaces his daughter makes him with pride.No, but it’d be kind of telling if the person is an adult male who is applying for a job, while wearing some kind of rainbow paraphenalia
I wanted to say the bit about the voice - but I dont’ exactly know the cause and it could be that some non gay people have effeminate voices as well…
Catholig
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Catholig
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Would my company be responsible for it? No. Would I feel responsible for employing someone if I KNEW that they were going to do that? Yes.
So you can’t choose your own employees…
I realize that.
Catholig
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Catholig
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KarenNC
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Rainbow pins? Rainbow bracelets? Rainbow necklace? Behavior?
Let’s hope that the woman you presume to be lesbian because she has a piece of rainbow-colored jewelry is not just a member of Rainbow Girls, an international service organization, or just happens to like rainbows or that selection of colors. Or that the man you think is a violent gay activist didn’t receive that tie with rainbows on it from his daughter for Father’s Day because she thought it was pretty and it happened to go with his suit and shirt. Other groups use the rainbow colors as well (though you may not approve of them either).
What sort of behavior is exclusively “gay” (as I presume you are not insinuating that he would bring his partner in and engage in sexual activity on your desk during a job interview, which I agree would be a pretty good indication that he was at least bi and had no judgement)?
I’m not sure though, because I still see it being very possible that he would contribute to some of those organizations that disrespect my faith.
And exactly how do you vet the organizations that your other employees contribute to privately? Do you fire them if you find out they contribute to Planned Parenthood? Pat Robertson? Liberty University? Jack Chick? Do you pass out a list of taboo organizations when you make the job offer? Give them a list of books they may and may not read? Newspapers and magazines to which they may not subscribe?
Exactly how much do you expect to micromanage every aspect of your employee’s personal lives so that they meet your criteria?
Sounds like you need to be sure that you only work for Catholic-based religious organizations. They have a legal religious exemption from non-discriminatory hiring practices.
Let’s hope that the woman you presume to be lesbian because she has a piece of rainbow-colored jewelry is not just a member of Rainbow Girls, an international service organization, or just happens to like rainbows or that selection of colors. Or that the man you think is a violent gay activist didn’t receive that tie with rainbows on it from his daughter for Father’s Day because she thought it was pretty and it happened to go with his suit and shirt. Other groups use the rainbow colors as well (though you may not approve of them either).
What sort of behavior is exclusively “gay” (as I presume you are not insinuating that he would bring his partner in and engage in sexual activity on your desk during a job interview, which I agree would be a pretty good indication that he was at least bi and had no judgement)?
I’m not sure though, because I still see it being very possible that he would contribute to some of those organizations that disrespect my faith.
And exactly how do you vet the organizations that your other employees contribute to privately? Do you fire them if you find out they contribute to Planned Parenthood? Pat Robertson? Liberty University? Jack Chick? Do you pass out a list of taboo organizations when you make the job offer? Give them a list of books they may and may not read? Newspapers and magazines to which they may not subscribe?
Exactly how much do you expect to micromanage every aspect of your employee’s personal lives so that they meet your criteria?
Sounds like you need to be sure that you only work for Catholic-based religious organizations. They have a legal religious exemption from non-discriminatory hiring practices.
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Catholig
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I’m unsure how I’d act if I found out that some of the money went to planned parenthood. I’d probably fire him and tell him why (if the government didn’t have “anti-discrimination laws”). Outside of that however I don’t think I’d try to micromangage peoples lives - I’d probably just try find good employees that way I don’t have to deal with any of those problems.
Catholig
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KarenNC
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Let’s hope he doesn’t have a Catholic Rainbow Study Bible (must be a gay version) or she isn’t wearing the rainbow “Colors of a Teacher’s Heart” pendant sold by the Catholic CompanyNo, but it’d be kind of telling if the person is an adult male who is applying for a job, while wearing some kind of rainbow paraphenalia
I wanted to say the bit about the voice - but I dont’ exactly know the cause and it could be that some non gay people have effeminate voices as well…
Catholig
catholiccompany.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=11611 (are they promoting homosexuals as teachers?).
Let’s look at the Des Colores (part of the Cursillo movement–http://www.rc.net/washington/cursillo/whatis.html) jewelry and other objects rainbowsandpromises.com/de_colores_6.html or
decolores.com/store/ or westshoredecolores.com/page9.html
In these cases, you would be discriminating against someone for discreetly displaying an object related to their Christian faith because you assumed that the only possible use of a rainbow is as a symbol of gay pride.
And yes, non-gay men may have effeminate voices and don’t like to watch sports. Non-gay women may have lower voices (I do, for instance–I sing third alto and am very definitely heterosexual) and short haircuts and prefer not to wear dresses.
In short–assumptions based on appearances are just that–assumptions, guesses, not fact.
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Mirdath
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If you fire an employee based on who he or she sees fit to give money to, you’re out an otherwise fine employee, and very quickly out of a company once the holder of your pink slip rightly and justly sues you into oblivion.
You do not have any say in what your employees do off the clock or where they put their earned wages, and there is no reason you should. You’re effectively treating them like animals, not even pets – workhorses, mules, guard dogs. You’re going to the yard and picking out your latest pack animal, saying ‘no, not this one, I don’t like that brown spot on his ear’. If you find a blemish after you’ve bought the animal, you’re selling it – or taking it out back to shoot it. Is this any way to treat a human being?
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IanBoyd57
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Good, good. I’d like to applaud the general public’s disagreement with Catholig.
I’m happy his rampant (and unabashed) bigotry is not shared among catholics as a whole.
What is frightening, though, at least in terms of improving things, is that I don’t think Catholig really minds being called a bigot, but correct me if I’m wrong.
The thing that really did trouble me earlier in the thread was the notion that atheists are immoral.
There is no other way to put it; you are wrong.
The statistics show the exact opposite; Christians go to jail in perfectly proportionate numbers, while atheists are under represented.
The truth is, much research into crime in general has shown that education is the greatest antithesis to crime.
We all have the same kind of conscience (unless you have a mental illness, which actually a very large number of criminals do) and so we are all pretty moral.
Declaring that atheists are less moral than Christians in general is not only erroneous, but evil and bigoted.
Seriously, grow up. Your mentality is not the only one in the world. Your culture, your religion, are not the only ones, and they are not the center of the world either.
Again, grow up. Time to become an adult with the all important capability of openly trying to understand where all the rest of the world is coming from.
This is opposed to, of course, acting like a child and simply rejecting and denying and condemning and ridiculing everyone who disagrees with you.
And, naturally, like a child, you base all these things on nothing.
Anyone have any stats showing how atheists abuse children more? Anyone?
So then, all of you who said that atheists are immoral and would abuse children more, decided to use the strategy of…Lying!
That is not christian behavior, in fact there is a commandment against it.
Anyway, your religion believes in a God who, according to the bible, once ordered his followers to be happy to dash children to death against the rocks.
Such a brutal atrocity is totally unacceptable by modern standards (just like how black racism is unacceptable, and how gay bigotry will be unacceptable; such is the way of the shifting moral paradigm). I don’t think children should be raised on such brutal, violent stories.
But I’m nowhere near a big enough jerk to stop any freaking fellow human beings from adopting children if they are not abusive.
Stop making unfounded, bigotrous claims about people who are different from you, and grow up already.
I’m happy his rampant (and unabashed) bigotry is not shared among catholics as a whole.
What is frightening, though, at least in terms of improving things, is that I don’t think Catholig really minds being called a bigot, but correct me if I’m wrong.
The thing that really did trouble me earlier in the thread was the notion that atheists are immoral.
There is no other way to put it; you are wrong.
The statistics show the exact opposite; Christians go to jail in perfectly proportionate numbers, while atheists are under represented.
The truth is, much research into crime in general has shown that education is the greatest antithesis to crime.
We all have the same kind of conscience (unless you have a mental illness, which actually a very large number of criminals do) and so we are all pretty moral.
Declaring that atheists are less moral than Christians in general is not only erroneous, but evil and bigoted.
Seriously, grow up. Your mentality is not the only one in the world. Your culture, your religion, are not the only ones, and they are not the center of the world either.
Again, grow up. Time to become an adult with the all important capability of openly trying to understand where all the rest of the world is coming from.
This is opposed to, of course, acting like a child and simply rejecting and denying and condemning and ridiculing everyone who disagrees with you.
And, naturally, like a child, you base all these things on nothing.
Anyone have any stats showing how atheists abuse children more? Anyone?
So then, all of you who said that atheists are immoral and would abuse children more, decided to use the strategy of…Lying!
That is not christian behavior, in fact there is a commandment against it.
Anyway, your religion believes in a God who, according to the bible, once ordered his followers to be happy to dash children to death against the rocks.
Such a brutal atrocity is totally unacceptable by modern standards (just like how black racism is unacceptable, and how gay bigotry will be unacceptable; such is the way of the shifting moral paradigm). I don’t think children should be raised on such brutal, violent stories.
But I’m nowhere near a big enough jerk to stop any freaking fellow human beings from adopting children if they are not abusive.
Stop making unfounded, bigotrous claims about people who are different from you, and grow up already.
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Catholig
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Mirdath, I guess you could say that I don’t have a right to interfere with any hypothetical employees lives - however if I could (again, hypothetically) select my own employees without the gov’t getting involved I don’t think any of this would be a problem. And as to your “humanitarian” analogies or whatever - you are basically saying that no employer has any right to choose who they have work under them. And that to select someone who you think is of good moral quality is to treat them like a work horse.
Yeah that is really a fitting analogy…Catholig
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sallybranwyn
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WOW :bigyikes:
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sallybranwyn
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I’m really hoping that you’re just trying to stir things up now and get people mad, because this is ridiculous, rude, and completely hateful.No, but it’d be kind of telling if the person is an adult male who is applying for a job, while wearing some kind of rainbow paraphenalia
I wanted to say the bit about the voice - but I dont’ exactly know the cause and it could be that some non gay people have effeminate voices as well…
Catholig
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Mirdath
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You ‘guess’? You don’t!Mirdath, I guess you could say that I don’t have a right to interfere with any hypothetical employees lives - however if I could (again, hypothetically) select my own employees without the gov’t getting involved I don’t think any of this would be a problem. And as to your “humanitarian” analogies or whatever - you are basically saying that no employer has any right to choose who they have work under them. And that to select someone who you think is of good moral quality is to treat them like a work horse.
You are part of the reason the government has to get involved to assure fair employment opportunities for everyone. Morality on the job is important and part of the deal with employment; morality off the clock is absolutely none of your business.
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