Should broke people receive health care?

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goofyjim said:
But if he never had the proper upbringing from his parents this creates an emotional imbalance caused by them. You can blame them. The parents must take responsibility in the formative years for turning out a responsible adult.
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How far back do you send the blame? Maybe they chose to be terrible parents because their parents were terrible, and on back to Adam and Eve.

At some point along the generations, somebody has to make a conscious choice to grow up. I’m not saying they should have to do this without help - but if you find yourself addicted to something, you need to ask for help for that - don’t say, “Oh, I had a bad father,” or “Oh, I had a bad mother,” and then continue to destroy your own life. There is nothing gained by that.
 
goofyjim said:
So you think it is all just a rosy idea of the addict taking charge of himself and quitting? My friend’s troubles stem from idiotic parents who didn’t bring him up properly. Yes I do put the blame on them. Just like I put the sexual problems on the blame of a parent who abuses the child. That is not enabling by any means. It is being practical. One cannot help another quit an addiction without looking at the underlying causes and it is not always a willful choice to begin an addiction. And the beat goes on…
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How it started doesn’t matter. How it stops is up to the individual.
 
jmcrae said:
How far back do you send the blame? Maybe they chose to be terrible parents because their parents were terrible, and on back to Adam and Eve.

At some point along the generations, somebody has to make a conscious choice to grow up. I’m not saying they should have to do this without help - but if you find yourself addicted to something, you need to ask for help for that - don’t say, “Oh, I had a bad father,” or “Oh, I had a bad mother,” and then continue to destroy your own life. There is nothing gained by that.
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It is easy to speak the way you dop when you haven’t faced the same challenges. Put yourself in his shoes. Both parents couldn’t care less about him during his whole life. How is he supposed to react? Do you expect him to just turn out fine like the rest of society? For a person to turn out in a stable situation it begins with the family, meaning the parents. If you knew the situation a little better you wouldn’t be so quick with your rash judgements.
 
jmcrae said:
How it started doesn’t matter. How it stops is up to the individual.
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But it is much more difficult for some than others.:banghead: I’m sensing a lack of sensitivity on these forums that everyone can just fix themselves with a little help from the right person. It’s just not true.
 
goofyjim said:
So you think it is all just a rosy idea of the addict taking charge of himself and quitting?
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Would you please stop trying to read my mind and telling me what I think?
goofyjim said:
My friend’s troubles stem from idiotic parents who didn’t bring him up properly. Yes I do put the blame on them.
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Do you understand the concept of a solution-oriented approach?

“Blaming the parents” is not a solution-oriented approach – unless you have a Way-Back machine, and can transport your friend into the past so he can have a different childhood.

Your friend’s problems are in the present. And yes, the only way to solve his problem is for him to take responsibility for himself, and accept the treatment and sustainment regime.

As a first step, he should separate himself from enablers.
 
goofyjim said:
It is easy to speak the way you dop when you haven’t faced the same challenges.
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You have no idea what I have faced. This is why it makes me angry - because I have been there, and I know that he has a choice. He is not bound by the bad decisions of the past. He can change those decisions for himself, and make a good future for himself.
Put yourself in his shoes. Both parents couldn’t care less about him during his whole life. How is he supposed to react?
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He has to disown his parents as parents (meaning, he has to make a decision that their bad parenting is not binding on him forever and ever), and then forgive them as human beings.
Do you expect him to just turn out fine like the rest of society?
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He has a road to travel that is different than other people’s road, but he has to make the choice to become the person God meant him to be. It will take different kind of work than other people have to do, but he can do it.

Do not let him think that he has to remain a victim forever.
 
jmcrae said:
You have no idea what I have faced. This is why it makes me angry - because I have been there, and I know that he has a choice. He is not bound by the bad decisions of the past. He can change those decisions for himself, and make a good future for himself.

He has to disown his parents as parents (meaning, he has to make a decision that their bad parenting is not binding on him forever and ever), and then forgive them as human beings.

He has a road to travel that is different than other people’s road, but he has to make the choice to become the person God meant him to be. It will take different kind of work than other people have to do, but he can do it.

Do not let him think that he has to remain a victim forever.
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Back to how it relates to the subject of this thread this kid is continually broke and deserves healthcare regardless of lack of ability to pay. And Vern, I am not an enabler so stop the implied accusation.
 
goofyjim said:
Back to how it relates to the subject of this thread this kid is continually broke and deserves healthcare regardless of lack of ability to pay.
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And I am willing that he should receive treatment and to pay my share. But no treatment will be effective until he accepts responsibility for himself.
goofyjim said:
And Vern, I am not an enabler so stop the implied accusation.
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You said, and I quote:
My friend’s troubles stem from idiotic parents who didn’t bring him up properly. Yes I do put the blame on them.
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People who say things like that are hardly encouraging the addict to accept responsibility for his own actions.
 
vern_humphrey said:
And I am willing that he should receive treatment and to pay my share. But no treatment will be effective until he accepts responsibility for himself.

You said, and I quote:

People who say things like that are hardly encouraging the addict to accept responsibility for his own actions.
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I give up with the lack of sensitivity here in these forums.
 
And while we are debating who should receive healthcare congress gets a 4100 per year pay raise. That’s alot of money that could be better spent on healthcare for the poor.
 
goofyjim said:
And while we are debating who should receive healthcare congress gets a 4100 per year pay raise. That’s alot of money that could be better spent on healthcare for the poor.
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Tell your congressman that. And don’t vote for him if he doesn’t promise to roll back that raise.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Tell your congressman that. And don’t vote for him if he doesn’t promise to roll back that raise.
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They should not only roll back the raise but take a cut. All of them, Republicans and Democrats alike. 50% would be nice.
 
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