Should Cafeteria Catholics go Apostate?

[Chaim_Ibrahim]

The very nature of this question does not at all sound like the Jesus of Nazareth we know through Scripture & our foundation in the long histories of communities of believers. As far as we know, Jesus saw no trouble with His followers “laboring on Sabbath” by gleaning corn from the fields for sustenance. Then there’s that other situation where Jesus is quoted as saying “Who among you is without sin? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone at this woman.” “Get the plank out of your own eye before concerning yourself with the splinter in your brother’s eye.” Etc.

The nature of this question sounds more like the attitudes of the stereotypes of Pharisees of the time of Jesus.

We are confident that God will not abandon the Church on earth. The Church is stronger when we embrace, respect & support all who pursue holiness with sincere hearts. The Body of Christ is composed of all its members and not one of us here now can justifiably claim perfection. Let’s leave such claims to Jesus & Mary, if indeed either of them is inclined toward pronouncing such claims of perfection. I suspect both Jesus & Mary are more inclined toward humble silence on the matters of their states of perfection.

 

[JohnMGonser]

I’m a looooong way from perfection, but I regard attendance and participation in the Eucharistic Feast as my best chance at improvement. Our Lord ate and drank with sinners like me before and He continues to do so this very day. I don’t think I have a shot at eternal life without help like this. I know that the best I give is not good enough, but it is what I have. With God’s help, through the Eucharist, it will get better.

 

[jmtowle]

I once heard it said that any soul that goes to hell is a victory for satan. Since I agree with that statement, it behoves me as a lover of Christ to work towards minimizing satan’s victories.

Many lay Catholics have chosen the wisdom of the secular world and live in error but God in His mercy may not hold them eternally culpable since it was the direction of religious who helped form their conscience. In my opinion, those are the souls most in need of prayer.

I am a lay member of the Marian Movement of Priests and I trust that our Blessed Mother spoke to and through Fr. Stefanno Gobbi. In her messages to Fr. Gobbi over three decades, she addressed these errors and the part those religious within the Church have played and will play in causing so much error and " shipwreck " as she termed it, to the faith.

It’s plausible, that in this present time of tribulation, error may spread even to the magisterium and the subsequent Pope, and if and when that happens, few if any of those living in error will see a need to change. Our Blessed Mother speaks about a remnant Church surviving the great tribulation and that remnant will come from those who sought the protection of the Sacred Heart of her Son Jesus and her Immaculate Heart. She tells us that this is her Son’s desire.

Sadly, few people will head these messages and like Noah’s time, few people will find safe passage.

 

[nickybr38]

I once heard it said that any soul that goes to hell is a victory for satan. Since I agree with that statement, it behoves me as a lover of Christ to work towards minimizing satan’s victories.

Many lay Catholics have chosen the wisdom of the secular world and live in error but God in His mercy may not hold them eternally culpable since it was the direction of religious who helped form their conscience. In my opinion, those are the souls most in need of prayer.

I am a lay member of the Marian Movement of Priests and I trust that our Blessed Mother spoke to and through Fr. Stefanno Gobbi. In her messages to Fr. Gobbi over three decades, she addressed these errors and the part those religious within the Church have played and will play in causing so much error and " shipwreck " as she termed it, to the faith.

It’s plausible, that in this present time of tribulation, error may spread even to the magisterium and the subsequent Pope, and if and when that happens, few if any of those living in error will see a need to change. Our Blessed Mother speaks about a remnant Church surviving the great tribulation and that remnant will come from those who sought the protection of the Sacred Heart of her Son Jesus and her Immaculate Heart. She tells us that this is her Son’s desire.

Sadly, few people will head these messages and like Noah’s time, few people will find safe passage.

When I read your post all I found myself thinking was; conspiracy theory.

Even if error trickles to the Bishops and indeed the Pope, error will NEVER be passed as Dogma. If that were to happen Satan would prevail over the Church and one thing Christ DID promise was that Satan would NEVER prevail over the Church.

Looking through Church history there have been many, many dark trying times. If we have to be another, so be it. However, we will overcome whatever difficulties arise. As we have done before. You are right in saying that we need only seek Jesus and follow His guidance. Ignore the false teachers. Do not be led astray by false Sheperds. Stay with the Church, the Church Jesus founded, and all will be well.

 

[jmtowle]

When I read your post all I found myself thinking was; conspiracy theory.

Even if error trickles to the Bishops and indeed the Pope, error will NEVER be passed as Dogma. If that were to happen Satan would prevail over the Church and one thing Christ DID promise was that Satan would NEVER prevail over the Church.

Looking through Church history there have been many, many dark trying times. If we have to be another, so be it. However, we will overcome whatever difficulties arise. As we have done before. You are right in saying that we need only seek Jesus and follow His guidance. Ignore the false teachers. Do not be led astray by false Sheperds. Stay with the Church, the Church Jesus founded, and all will be well.

Your point is a good one. So if error IS somehow passed on as Dogma you will not be deceived. You know and appreciate Dogma as eternal truth, not subject to or subordinate in any way to secular wisdom or rationalism. Many, many do not. The Pope could, with the help of a like minded majority of Cardinals and Bishops, declare that artificial birth control is no longer considered a sin and that abortion is sometimes justified. The same Pope with the approval of a sympathetic Magisterium majority, might also chose to ordain women as priests.

If these things were to happen, it wouldn’t be that satan prevailed it would simply mean that he entered into the highest regions of the Church. The purification that would follow these events would produce a small but pure remnant, from which the Church would grow and flourish.

I know it’s difficult to think of one’s self as living in a monumental time in salvation history but we know these times have occurred and can still occur.

As I’ve already alluded to, few people listened to or believed Noah, or the prophets that prophesied the destruction of the temple and exhale of the Jewish nation. Our Blessed mother has been warning us for more than a century, which appears to be a long time to our manner of thinking but in God’s view of time it is more like a passing moment.

I’ve done what I feel I’m called to do and that is make people aware. People will chose to do what they will with this information.

 

[Della]

Your point is a good one. So if error IS somehow passed on as Dogma you will not be deceived. You know and appreciate Dogma as eternal truth, not subject to or subordinate in any way to secular wisdom or rationalism. Many, many do not. The Pope could, with the help of a like minded majority of Cardinals and Bishops, declare that artificial birth control is no longer considered a sin and that abortion is sometimes justified. The same Pope with the approval of a sympathetic Magisterium majority, might also chose to ordain women as priests.

If these things were to happen, it wouldn’t be that satan prevailed it would simply mean that he entered into the highest regions of the Church. The purification that would follow these events would produce a small but pure remnant, from which the Church would grow and flourish.

I know it’s difficult to think of one’s self as living in a monumental time in salvation history but we know these times have occurred and can still occur.

As I’ve already alluded to, few people listened to or believed Noah, or the prophets that prophesied the destruction of the temple and exhale of the Jewish nation. Our Blessed mother has been warning us for more than a century, which appears to be a long time to our manner of thinking but in God’s view of time it is more like a passing moment.

I’ve done what I feel I’m called to do and that is make people aware. People will chose to do what they will with this information.

This is not Catholic teaching and Our Blessed Mother would never endorse these ideas. The Church Christ founded and to which he gave the charism of infallibility will NEVER do the things you claim. NEVER. The idea that it could lose it’s way and proclaim false dogma is a PROTESTANT notion. No matter how far to the left or right the Barque of Peter might lean in the winds of the passing ages, no matter how much water of dissention breaks over its bow, it will never fail and never sink and will never need to be reformed in any of its teachings. NOT EVER.

 

[jmtowle]

This is not Catholic teaching and Our Blessed Mother would never endorse these ideas. The Church Christ founded and to which he gave the charism of infallibility will NEVER do the things you claim. NEVER. The idea that it could lose it’s way and proclaim false dogma is a PROTESTANT notion. No matter how far to the left or right the Barque of Peter might lean in the winds of the passing ages, no matter how much water of dissention breaks over its bow, it will never fail and never sink and will never need to be reformed in any of its teachings. NOT EVER.

Fair enough.

 

[jmtowle]

This is not Catholic teaching and Our Blessed Mother would never endorse these ideas. The Church Christ founded and to which he gave the charism of infallibility will NEVER do the things you claim. NEVER. The idea that it could lose it’s way and proclaim false dogma is a PROTESTANT notion. No matter how far to the left or right the Barque of Peter might lean in the winds of the passing ages, no matter how much water of dissention breaks over its bow, it will never fail and never sink and will never need to be reformed in any of its teachings. NOT EVER.

On second thought, maybe I should offer a bit more of a response.

You are saying that infallibility regarding faith and morals has no possibility of being abridged, that it goes against Catholic teaching. That being the case, there is no concern that satan may have won a partial and temporary victory. My only point is that if it were to happen, few people would be equipped with the ability to resist the error.

I don’t live my life as if this were a certainty and I certainly do not hope it ever comes to be.
But based on a collection of books dealing with the real possibility that we have already entered the time of great tribulation, it only seems prudent to be aware of the possibility and the best recourse to spiritual safety if it does.

Our Blessed Mother has been warning us for more than a century and few people, in comparison to the billion plus Catholics, are paying any attention. It’s all being passed by as simply “private revelation” when in fact that currently is the only way for the messages to be propagated. They have nearly a zero chance of being heard at the parish level.

If the dissension within the Church between the current magisterium and many clergy and religious is the product of satan’s ability to deceive, Mary’s messages will be dismissed and made light of at every turn. After all, it is she that will destroy him and he knows it.

 

[Mangy_Donkey]

I spent 25 years as one of those “apostate” Catholics. God was patient with me until I came to my senses.

If God can be patient with our faults and sins, maybe we should be patient with other people as well instead of wondering if they deserve to be members of the Church.

-Tim-

Great point Tim, I too for most of my youth and early adult life was an “apostate” who never missed Mass. I have to remind myself of this quite often when I find myself judging others at Mass. You never know when or what will flip the switch.

 

[Fragile]

Well, ideally, they should repent of their errors and sins and pride, make a good and full confession, and commit themselves to a period of penance, and reenter full communion with the Church.

In a lot of cases, that’s not going to happen. Pride blinds. I’m of the opinion that people who are resolute in their conviction that they don’t owe the Church anything, that it has no authority over them, that it’s wrong on this and this and this issue (and of course they’re all issues that have to do with sex, and hey, it’s just totally a coincidence that those issues also happen to line up perfectly with the zeitgeist), that they can do whatever they want because God’s their best buddy and He’ll forgive them for anything without even asking, etc. etc. etc., should stop lying to themselves about what they are and what they believe. They aren’t doing themselves any favors by insincerely mouthing the words of the Nicene Creed (“I believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church”) or unworthily receiving the precious body and blood of Christ. If you want to live like a Protestant, well, they have churches for that.

All Protestant communities do not look like this, but many Catholic parishes do, this is really an asinine statement!

 

[sw85]

All Protestant communities do not look like this, but many Catholic parishes do, this is really an asinine statement!

“Look like” what?

 

[Abu]

Jmtowle #82
It’s plausible, that in this present time of tribulation, error may spread even to the magisterium and the subsequent Pope
#84
The Pope could, with the help of a like minded majority of Cardinals and Bishops, declare that artificial birth control is no longer considered a sin and that abortion is sometimes justified. The same Pope with the approval of a sympathetic Magisterium majority, might also chose to ordain women as priests.

Totally false. No real Catholic may believe that – it is heresy.

The Magisterium is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error in dogma and doctrine on faith and morals to the whole Church.

 

[jmtowle]

Totally false. No real Catholic may believe that – it is heresy.

The Magisterium is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error in dogma and doctrine on faith and morals to the whole Church.

In order for these things to happen, a pope would need to be elected without the blessings of the Holy Spirit, in a process unprecedented. It wouldn’t be God’s doing but man’s.

I understand, appreciate and prefer the stays quo, but history tells me that God sometimes allows man to error in order that man can discover his error and repent.

Again, all you say is true, provided the pope and the magisterium are legitimately in place and protected by the Holy Spirit. If you are saying that man has no ability to circumvent the Holy Spirit in an attempt to reach some end; I hope you are right, because if it occurs, it will usher in unimaginable suffering.

 

[Della]

In order for these things to happen, a pope would need to be elected without the blessings of the Holy Spirit, in a process unprecedented. It wouldn’t be God’s doing but man’s.

I understand, appreciate and prefer the stays quo, but history tells me that God sometimes allows man to error in order that man can discover his error and repent.

Again, all you say is true, provided the pope and the magisterium are legitimately in place and protected by the Holy Spirit. If you are saying that man has no ability to circumvent the Holy Spirit in an attempt to reach some end; I hope you are right, because if it occurs, it will usher in unimaginable suffering.

Men have already attempted to circumvent the papacy by setting up false popes, but it didn’t succeed. Either the Holy Spirit is protecting Christ’s one, true Church or he isn’t. What you propose CANNOT happen. Such speculations are, therefore, pointless and only weaken the faith of the doubtful and seekers. Please desist in making such claims because they are totally false and destructive.