Should Catholic chuches rent/loan their facilities out for nonCatholic worship services?

[ALLGIRLS]

Morning everyone Sorry I haven’t been online since shortly after I created this thread.

So I guess the consensus is, it’s ok for nonCatholics to use a Catholic building, but the church itself (containing the Blessed Sacrament, obviously) should be a no-no outside of extreme emergencies? In those cases (i.e., a church’s building is destroyed by fire or tornado) I believe the Blessed Sacrament could be removed from the tabernacle and reposed elsewhere until the nonCatholic service is over, lessening the liklihood of any sacrilege taking place (of course, I’m sure they wouldn’t properly reverence the altar, but then I lot Catholics don’t properly reverence the altar, either )

So, since at my church it’s actually the K of C hall being used (and, from what I now understand the Church doesn’t own that), there’s no problem. Ok, I feel better about the situation.

I gotta quit hanging around these forums, I get too ansy about liturgical abuses and other “shouldn’ts”

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[lak611]

So I guess the consensus is, it’s ok for nonCatholics to use a Catholic building, but the church itself (containing the Blessed Sacrament, obviously) should be a no-no outside of extreme emergencies? In those cases (i.e., a church’s building is destroyed by fire or tornado) I believe the Blessed Sacrament could be removed from the tabernacle and reposed elsewhere until the nonCatholic service is over, lessening the liklihood of any sacrilege taking place (of course, I’m sure they wouldn’t properly reverence the altar, but then I lot Catholics don’t properly reverence the altar, either )

This happens frequently in the military. Many bases do not have separate church buildings. The same one is used for Catholic and Protestant services. This also is done in jails and prisons. I have a friend who was a guard. They have one chapel where Catholic Mass and Protestant services are held. He has worked during the Masses and services.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The Knights of Columbus, though Catholic, is a private “for profit” organization.

Just for the record, Knights of Columbus is through and through Catholic, is a NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION. As far as renting catholic facilities out is ok, as long as it is not the church building where the altar and tabernacle reside.

 

[JonNC]

Be offended they are heretics.

We really need to keep this in mind. Protestantism is a heresy, not just a schism like the EO (sorry EO’ers)- but a full blown HERESY.

Denies the real presence. Denies Mary is mother of God. Denies the priesthood, denies, denies, denies.

As a Lutheran, I’m not offended that you consider all Protestants heretics, but just a couple of points;

1. We do not deny the real presence
2. We do not deny Theotokos
3. The Lutheran confessions do refer to the papacy as antichrist, not individual popes (how anyone could view Pope John Paul II as antichrist is beyond me). That said, those condemnations are 500years old, and this Lutheran thinks they should be stricken.

I would vote tomorrow to share our sactuary with a Catholic parish in need, and I hope someday soon terms like antichrist and heretic do not pass between us.

 

[SemperFidelis]

1. We do not deny the real presence

Sort of.

That said, those condemnations are 500years old, and this Lutheran thinks they should be stricken.

Nice of you to suggest this after you just claimed your confession refers to the Papacy as the antichrist. Just because it’s not an individual Pope, doesn’t make it any better.

 

[JonNC]

Sort of.

Nice of you to suggest this after you just claimed your confession refers to the Papacy as the antichrist. Just because it’s not an individual Pope, doesn’t make it any better.

I didn’t claim it, just stated what the confession says. I then went on to say that I, in effect, agree with you, it “doesn’t make it any better”. It needs to be stricken.

RE: Real Presence. Augsburg Confession X - Our churches teach that the body and blood of Christ are truly present and are distributed to those who eat in the Supper of the Lord." We may differ on Transubstantiation, but not on the real presence.

 

[SemperFidelis]

I didn’t claim it, just stated what the confession says. I then went on to say that I, in effect, agree with you, it “doesn’t make it any better”. It needs to be stricken.

RE: Real Presence. Augsburg Confession X - Our churches teach that the body and blood of Christ are truly present and are distributed to those who eat in the Supper of the Lord." We may differ on Transubstantiation, but not on the real presence.

Well, we consider Transubstantiation a very important part of the Real Presence. Something Lutherans are lacking…

 

[JonNC]

Well, we consider Transubstantiation a very important part of the Real Presence. Something Lutherans are lacking…

I never meant to imply it wasn’t important to you. My apologies if you got that impression. I have great respect for your beliefs regarding the Eucharist in particular, and the Catholic faith in general. It is the reason I’m here.
Blessings

 

[O.S.Luke]

I hear you, O.S. And it was generous of you to allow your Catholic brethren to take shelter in your ‘sanctuary’. You DO understand, however, what the difference is between a Catholic church building and a non-Catholic place of worship – right?

Nevertheless, I would think a Catholic church might have let you use the undercroft or the gym as a gesture of good will.

Our ‘sanctuary’, as you call it, is a sanctuary without quotation marks. And we allowed a Catholic Church to use our church as a place of worship for them; we even moved one of our worship services up so that they could have mass at a fairly convenient hour on Sunday mornings. They certainly did not return the favor - and it has caused a rift in that city ever since. We were told we could not hold worship in ANY of their facilities and were given a Canon Law quotation. So be it.

Basically, “We can use your church, but you can’t use ours.” That’s just plain rude and inhospitable. As one Catholic on another post said, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…

I’ll never make that mistake again.

 

[psyche23]

Our ‘sanctuary’, as you call it, is a sanctuary without quotation marks. And we allowed a Catholic Church to use our church as a place of worship for them; we even moved one of our worship services up so that they could have mass at a fairly convenient hour on Sunday mornings. They certainly did not return the favor - and it has caused a rift in that city ever since. We were told we could not hold worship in ANY of their facilities and were given a Canon Law quotation. So be it.

Basically, “We can use your church, but you can’t use ours.” That’s just plain rude and inhospitable. As one Catholic on another post said, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…

I’ll never make that mistake again.

Does sound pretty uncharitable. I wouldn’t expect the Catholic Church to allow you to use our “sanctuary” for lack of a better term simply becuase that is where our Blessed Eucharist lies. I would think however if they had a seperate building or even a section of the church seperate from the Chapel with our Lord, that that are would be shared because you were generous enough to share yourself. Likely, they were just concerned over the Eucharist and were trying to protect it the best way they thought.

Poor judgement perhaps, but they probably thought it better safe than sorry. Of course I can’t say for sure since I’m not there. Only speculate. There are, as you’ve probably gathered, bad Catholics as well as there are bad protestants ect. If they have acted wrongly, please don’t generalize those wrongs to all Catholics. It’s kind of a hazy area with us, and since we are so concerned with doing the right thing by Jesus’ physical presence on this earth sometimes the better safe than sorry idea can come across as arrogant, selfish or other (you can insert whatever other feelings you have on this… ). I can also see how they wouldn’t think your sanctuary was as sacred because of the lack of the Eucharist. Not that it’s not important to you or anything though, just important in a different way.

I am truly sorry though that it has caused a rift. That’s very unfortunate.

 

[O.S.Luke]

We consider our Eucharist just as sacred as yours, with Christ really present, and we consider our altar just as blessed and consecrated as yours. That not withstanding, we invited the Catholic parish to worship in our sanctuary with full use of anything they needed - organ, altar, vestments, vessels, font. In retrospect, it might possibly be against church law to allow a Eucharist in any of our facilities that would not be open to any baptized Christian who came forward.

You don’t have to agree with our beliefs… but we were made to feel that our sanctuary was “less” than theirs. And no, I don’t judge all Catholics that way. That was two parishes ago. But I can’t speak for the hundreds of people in the church I formerly served that were led to think that way.

And I need to correct one statement I just made. It’s not OUR Eucharist or YOUR Eucharist. It is Christ’s Eucharist.

O+

 

[SemperFidelis]

We consider our Eucharist just as sacred as yours,

Yes, but that doesn’t mean the Catholic Church sees it the same way.

 

[O.S.Luke]

I agree. Did you READ my post? Particularly the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph?

 

[Aramis]

I don’t know why this bothers me, but it does . My parish allows a Lutheran congregation to use the Knights of Columbus hall on Sundays for their worship service.) .

What do you all think?

Provided it’s not a consecrated Catholic Altar being used, I see no major issue with it

 

[KarenNC]

For the last nine years the local Reform Jewish temple has been using a large nearby Catholic Church to hold some of their High Holy Days services as their own facility is not large enough to hold all the attendees (over a thousand families are members of the temple and many additional Jews in the area want to attend the High Holy Day services for Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah). They had used a large Church of God building for one year with the minister’s permission, but the board of the church got very upset and that didn’t happen anymore.

Services were held in the sanctuary. My husband (who sang with the Temple choir for many years) says that he believes the altar was moved out, or at least over, to make room for the portable Ark that holds the Torah scrolls.

The sanctuary has a huge, more than lifesize crucifix permanently affixed to the wall which has curtains that cover it. The first time my husband went in, he commented to the cantor (the Jewish one ) that it was nice of the church to do that for the Jewish congregation. The cantor replied that no, it was there all the time. He had asked the priest about it and the priest said it was there because most of the parishioners didn’t want to look at that crucifix all the time either.

 

[SemperFidelis]

I agree. Did you READ my post? Particularly the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph?

Yep, just making the obvious statement.

 

[SemperFidelis]

For the last nine years the local Reform Jewish temple has been using a large nearby Catholic Church to hold some of their High Holy Days services as their own facility is not large enough to hold all the attendees (over a thousand families are members of the temple and many additional Jews in the area want to attend the High Holy Day services for Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah). They had used a large Church of God building for one year with the minister’s permission, but the board of the church got very upset and that didn’t happen anymore.

Services were held in the sanctuary. My husband (who sang with the Temple choir for many years) says that he believes the altar was moved out, or at least over, to make room for the portable Ark that holds the Torah scrolls.

The sanctuary has a huge, more than lifesize crucifix permanently affixed to the wall which has curtains that cover it. The first time my husband went in, he commented to the cantor (the Jewish one ) that it was nice of the church to do that for the Jewish congregation. The cantor replied that no, it was there all the time. He had asked the priest about it and the priest said it was there because most of the parishioners didn’t want to look at that crucifix all the time either.

That’s actually quite disturbing…

 

[O.S.Luke]

Yep, just making the obvious statement.

No, just repeating it to place salt in the wound and win the apologetic exercise.

Pax vobiscum.

O+

 

[SemperFidelis]

No, just repeating it to place salt in the wound and win the apologetic exercise.

Pax vobiscum.

O+

I’m glad to know you can interpret the “internet” actions of others…

 

[psyche23]

We consider our Eucharist just as sacred as yours, with Christ really present, and we consider our altar just as blessed and consecrated as yours. That not withstanding, we invited the Catholic parish to worship in our sanctuary with full use of anything they needed - organ, altar, vestments, vessels, font. In retrospect, it might possibly be against church law to allow a Eucharist in any of our facilities that would not be open to any baptized Christian who came forward.

You don’t have to agree with our beliefs… but we were made to feel that our sanctuary was “less” than theirs. And no, I don’t judge all Catholics that way. That was two parishes ago. But I can’t speak for the hundreds of people in the church I formerly served that were led to think that way.

And I need to correct one statement I just made. It’s not OUR Eucharist or YOUR Eucharist. It is Christ’s Eucharist.

O+

I’m sorry, but I sense a tone of anger here… I wasn’t trying to defend them necessarily because AGAIN, I wasn’t there I don’t know how you and your parish was treated. And AGAIN, the rules on that are hazy for us, as you can tell by the recent post of holding Jewish ceremonies within the Sanctuary. Most priests have to handle the situations individually or approach the bishop on the matter. I was simply trying to help shed some light on the POSSIBLE reasons why they acted the way they did. If you felt slighted, then I can apologize on behalf of Catholics in general, but not of that particular congregation. Again, there are people who do good and bad things in al religions. Just reiterating the importance of not judging the rest us.

And you’re right, Jesus is present on the Earth for all people, not just Catholics. I didn’t mean for it to sound that way. However, Catholics have different views on the blessed sacrament than any other religion I have come across (of course I’m admittedly less versed on that of other religions). But I think I can say we view our Eucharist as different from yours which would Possibly explain their actions a little better.