Should Catholic parents attend gay child's nuptials?

[Philothea53]

They still don’t have a “puking” smiley.

Publisher is a Friend (Quaker), and one of the most Christlike people it has ever been my privilege to talk with.

Not everybody believes it a danger to one’s immortal soul, and thus may consider it not deserving of being shunned. As for lack of moral stamina, I’d think twice before applying that particular slur to one of the Society of Friends.

That sword cuts both ways. Look to yourself

You call yourself an agnostic in your profile then you define someone as Christlike? You have got to be kidding!

 

[Mirdath]

You call yourself an agnostic in your profile then you define someone as Christlike? You have got to be kidding!

That I do not believe in the divinity of Jesus in no way impairs my ability to see that someone is a true follower of him. I’ve always looked up to Publisher as an example of someone truly living his faith in an all-loving God who exhorts his worshipers to do the same. He’s actually made me think twice about there maybe being something to faith I might want, something no Catholic here has yet done.

On a Catholic apologetics forum with thousands of would-be evangelists, I am closest to being swayed by a single Quaker who does not attempt to prove he’s right, who does not seek out converts, who makes no apologia for his beliefs. Telling.

 

[latinmasslover]

Publisher does not attempt to prove he’s right, who does not seek out converts, who makes no apologia for his beliefs. Telling.

Of course he doesn’t make a defense for his beliefs-his own God has made it clear that his personal opinion on the matter is immoral. If you’re attracted to a feel-good religion then maybe you’re called to be a Quaker, or maybe a Baptist, or Pentacostal…there are so many Protestant denominations to choose from; however, Jesus didn’t establish a feel-good Church. Let me ask this: If your daughter was going to move in with her boyfriend who used drugs and beat her, would you help her move in? What if she wanted to marry him? Would you attend the wedding? If you love her, the answer is no. You tell her how much you love her which is why you can’t support those decisions. When she realizes that (and phrase that however won’t make her defensive) you will be there for her to help her through, but you can’t support something that you know is bad for her. Does this make any sense?

 

[Mirdath]

Of course he doesn’t make a defense for his beliefs-his own God has made it clear that his personal opinion on the matter is immoral.

That was not my point and you know it.

If you’re attracted to a feel-good religion then maybe you’re called to be a Quaker, or maybe a Baptist, or Pentacostal…there are so many Protestant denominations to choose from; however, Jesus didn’t establish a feel-good Church.

You think the Society of Friends is a ‘feel-good’ religion? Sometimes I wonder how Publisher manages to keep his cool so well around you all. The Society is not about ‘feeling good’, it’s about truly unconditional love and support for the community; and in this respect I think it has Catholicism thoroughly beaten out. Unconditional love isn’t easy. Would you choose to be crucified?

Let me ask this: If your daughter was going to move in with her boyfriend who used drugs and beat her, would you help her move in? What if she wanted to marry him? Would you attend the wedding? If you love her, the answer is no. You tell her how much you love her which is why you can’t support those decisions. When she realizes that (and phrase that however won’t make her defensive) you will be there for her to help her through, but you can’t support something that you know is bad for her. Does this make any sense?

Apples and oranges. A same-sex relationship endangers only the immortal soul according to certain Christian denominations, and that’s something I don’t even believe exists. An abusive relationship produces real, tangible, immediate physical, mental, and emotional harm.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

NewUlm1976_2000, your constant harping on this is absolutely against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Promoting this behavior and support this behavior is cooperating in a grave sin. Cooperating in grave sin is itself a grave sin. That appears to be what you are doing here.

If they truly loved one another, they would not put their immortal souls in danger.

Only a person who hated homosexuals would support such seriously sinful behavior.

As for parents desiring their children to be happy, I understand that Ted Bundy enjoyed his lifestyle too. Should his parents be accepting of that behavior? It is a fair comparison. Sodomy is one of the four sins that “cries to heaven for justice”, just like the murder of an innocent.

You are putting a union like this on the same level of murder? That appears to be vastly overstating the situation.

Do we really know their souls are in danger? What I see is two people in love with each other making a lifelong pledge to be together and all the ups and downs that that entails.

This thread is a situation where family bonds are the strongest bonds and the love of the parents for their children shows the most. It is about acceptance of who they are, as good people and continuing family support. Shunning, avoiding, etc… only hurts the situation and breaks bonds, often for life.

I see homosexuals as good, loving, people and their gender preference does not and should not take away from who they are. They are human to and deserve a chance to be loved by someone else in this life, regardless of gender.

If you strive to look at people based on their differences, that is all you will see. If you strive to look at people based on their similarities, that is what you will see, and find out we are so much closer than we would otherwise think. The former type of thinking has lead to endless amounts of heartbreak to war over the lifespan of humankind.

 

[Publisher]

***“One” has to wonder what “voice” you are listening to? Are you a satanist? How is it loving to go to a celebration that endangers the immortal soul of your child for the sake of making nicey-nice. You don’t have the moral stamina to live Truth…and as the Late Great Bishop Sheen would argue…hey, you have some moral (of the flesh??) sins you are clinging to yourself!! REPENT!! ***

Satanist…I have known kind Satanists and rude Christians. While I care deeply for the souls of others…I place them in God’s hands…very Good Hands. If I only attended functions of which I agreed totally with, I’d never leave my house. We are called to be leaven in this world…to share in His incarnation…to walk among those whom he would love and redeem…words like “repent?” are simply"tinkling brass and clanging cymbals" as they have no virtue in them…your words are like chaff…neither do you know me or my ‘works’ or what I am “clingling” to…I know Whom I cling to…your judgements are based on fear and superstition it seems to me.

I wonder how "satan’ is given so much power in so called “christians” lives, when the Light indwells them? Quoting from the words of a book really proves nothing…only that you can quote…there is a True and Perfect Teacher who can lead us into Truth…I don’t always hear clearly, but I know when Love speaks…it is clear when Spoken.

 

[Publisher]

Bible… Ouida Board…

Get it?

You didn’t do that on purpose???

One of my favorite quotes of George Fox when he was quoted scripture was…“Thee tells me what the prophets say, thee tells me what the apostles say…what can thee say?” We share a common faith…we each must live in the Light and be guided by that Light…no matter how difficult it is to walk in the Light, it is the best path to take.

We were asked if we would attend our child’s nuptials in a gay 'marriage"…yes I would, because it is what Love and Light demands of me…to share His Presence and His love where there may be hurting and pain…without question…and I would seek to be His Voice and Presence and offer them blessing and hope…I don’t have to agree…I just have to Love.

 

[rpp]

Sodomy and lesbianism are serious disorders. All sexual activity outside of the marital embrace is a grave sin and endangers the immortal soul.

It is an act of hate to condone grave sin.

I think I am going to abandon this thread.

I will leave it to the those hate-filled people who lie to themself and call it “love”. I will it to the non-Christians who claim they know Christ well enough to describe someone who rejects the will of God, something Jesus never did, as “Christ-like”.

See you on the other boards.

 

[IanBoyd57]

I absolutely would NOT attend, nor would my husband.

The state of their soul is far more important to me than if they will feel good about coming over for dinner on Saturday night.

What we do here on earth is preparing us for where we are to spend ETERNITY. “Maintaining a relationship” with someone, while nice and warm and fuzzy and gives us oh so much pleasure, does us all damn bit of good if it results in dying and going to hell for eternity.

I really fail to see how there could ever possibly be anything more important than the state on one’s soul. Being afraid that they may not speak to you again because you are not in favor of them living in sin is the least of the worries.

Attendance at such an event is support and validation. PERIOD. And no Catholic should support and validate such an event. I don’t care who the participants are.

~Liza

My fears vindicated.

Religion does cause some people to devalue this life, to focus on the next one at the expense of our real life.

 

[Jimu]

No. Catholic teachings are clear. If we condone their homosexual lifestyle, married or not, we are encouraging their sin.
With compassion I would explain clearly why I was not attending.
It seems, in some poster’s minds, that hell no longer exists.
It is still there!

 

[defenderoftruth]

I absolutely would NOT attend. It’s perversion, it’s a mockery of God’s creation and marriage. I would tell them that I love them but they know how I feel (we go to homosexual pride parades to try to evangelize to the lost) my daughter is only four but she knows now and will always know that THAT kind of thing is totally sinful and abhorrent to God. Her “friend” wouldn’t even be allowed at my home or to even be brought up in conversation. I really don’t care if she wouldn’t talk to me again, I love her but I love God enough to not choose her and that “lifestyle” over Him.

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me.

I choose God and to go to a blasphemous sinful event such as that with any kind of approval is spitting in His face. NO THANK YOU! It’s hard for those that have grown children in that situation but it’s just like spanking, no parent likes to do it but it needs to be done, their mental, physical and spiritual well being is most important. The rebellious grown child that is homosexual and trying to “marry” their lover is in a sin that will land them in hell, and a parent that joins PFLAG or any other organization to that account cares about having their child “like them” here and now not about their child’s eternal salvation. Really…does a parent truly “love” a child they molly coddle them in their sin? A sin that leads to damnation?

Sorry about the rant but this is a huge problem with parents nowadays. It makes me mad to know end to see them at “marriages”, “civil ceremonies” and pride parades helping their child to hell it makes me sick. I love my daughter and I wouldn’t dream of helping her to hell EVER. :tsktsk: :banghead: :nope:

 

[defenderoftruth]

Sodomy and lesbianism are serious disorders. All sexual activity outside of the marital embrace is a grave sin and endangers the immortal soul.

It is an act of hate to condone grave sin.

I think I am going to abandon this thread.

I will leave it to the those hate-filled people who lie to themself and call it “love”. I will it to the non-Christians who claim they know Christ well enough to describe someone who rejects the will of God, something Jesus never did, as “Christ-like”.

See you on the other boards.

AMEN!!! My thoughts exactly.

 

[MaryD7]

My fears vindicated.

Religion does cause some people to devalue this life, to focus on the next one at the expense of our real life.

You know, you just hit on something here. I could see why a person who isn’t particularly religious would feel this way. Religion causes people to behave in certain ways that seem rather judgmental and cruel to the outside world.

One of the lessons we all learned growing up (religious or non) is that there are boundaries (lines in the sand, so to speak) and that we can’t follow a pack mentality, ie: if Jimmy jumped off a bridge does that mean we should too? As we grow older we all learn that there are laws of the land that are to be followed and if we break them there will be penalties. With religion, we are following the laws of Someone who can’t be seen and where the penalties and/or rewards are not to be found until after we finish this life. Sometimes we are put into the position of defending and upholding these laws in front of others who don’t subscribe to the same beliefs. The question of all Catholics is how do we uphold the laws but do so in a manner that doesn’t completely alienate others?

I know there is no answer to that question because to uphold the laws sometimes means that a person will alienate others but it is something to be aware of as Catholics.

It is a tight rope that we are walking where we have to balance between love and compassion on one side and adherence to God’s law on another. This rope is going to get even harder to walk in the upcoming years as the lines in the sand blur even further.

 

[Publisher]

You know, you just hit on something here. I could see why a person who isn’t particularly religious would feel this way. Religion causes people to behave in certain ways that seem rather judgmental and cruel to the outside world.

One of the lessons we all learned growing up (religious or non) is that there are boundaries (lines in the sand, so to speak) and that we can’t follow a pack mentality, ie: if Jimmy jumped off a bridge does that mean we should too? As we grow older we all learn that there are laws of the land that are to be followed and if we break them there will be penalties. With religion, we are following the laws of Someone who can’t be seen and where the penalties and/or rewards are not to be found until after we finish this life. Sometimes we are put into the position of defending and upholding these laws in front of others who don’t subscribe to the same beliefs. The question of all Catholics is how do we uphold the laws but do so in a manner that doesn’t completely alienate others?

I know there is no answer to that question because to uphold the laws sometimes means that a person will alienate others but it is something to be aware of as Catholics.

It is a tight rope that we are walking where we have to balance between love and compassion on one side and adherence to God’s law on another. This rope is going to get even harder to walk in the upcoming years as the lines in the sand blur even further.

Good post Mary. As a Friend I feel I am called to live the life of Christ out in this world. Example, some other religious groups refused to work with Friends in the distribution of food for the hungry becasue Friends did not feel it was right to force a “gospel message” onto people in exchange for feeding them…the Friend’s view was simply to feed them and take care of their hunger…hopefully by taking care of their temporal needs now, those fed would be moved to seek deeper into the motives of those who fed them…one of love, compassion without getting anything in return…

Refusing to attend a nuptial celebration I may not agree with, simply leaves the celebration without a witness of a way of life that I hope is deeper, better, a life grounded in Christ. If I didn’t agree with the “ceremony”, my silent witness to love the unlovely, show mercy to those most in need of it, and offer a prayer that grace would turn hearts to God and by attending to “speak to that of God” within them so they may realize the Light Within, is what I am called to do.

If the Light Within restrains any of those of Catholic tradition from attending, then “mind the Light” by all means, but so I too must “mind the Light.”

It is not God’s judgement that I fear, but a life lived in the here and now that has no peace or love in it. The here after will take care of itself…with Job I will face that day of judgement with the words…“though He slay me, still will I trust Him.”

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Sodomy and lesbianism are serious disorders. All sexual activity outside of the marital embrace is a grave sin and endangers the immortal soul.

The first part is still up for debate in many Catholic Theologian circles. It is an unresolved Church issue that will continue into the future.

Same gender, different gender, they are both trying to embrace marriage with themselves and that is something to support (right now in civil marriages and other denominations and maybe others into the future). Two people together are better than two apart in life.

Good talking to you, see you on other threads.

 

[defenderoftruth]

It is a tight rope that we are walking where we have to balance between love and compassion on one side and adherence to God’s law on another.

The love and compassion are to be that you still love your child, you don’t verbally or physically assault them if they “come out” to you. But you do God’s wishes by not condoning it, telling them that under your roof this is not an option, that they need to keep a lid on their behavior, speech, etc. on this issue in your home. That their “friend” isn’t allowed in the home because you won’t have them thinking it’s O.K. under any circumstances. You will not attend any parties, parades, PFLAG meetings, or “marriages”.

That is the difference in obeying God yet being loving and compassionate. Unfortunately the homosexual agenda has stolen words like gay, tolerant, diversity, affirming etc. The more homosexuals I talk to out in the world the more I see them as being intolerant. I will admit it, I’m intolerant of homosexuality.

But don’t claim to be tolerant people if you are trying to shut Christians up because you can’t stand what the bible and tradition has long held as sinful.

That was for all the “tolerant” homosexuals and friends of homosexuals out there.

 

[Nepenthe]

Sodomy and lesbianism are serious disorders.

You won’t attend just because your child has a ‘disorder’? What if the child’s unipolar depressive, schizophrenic, has cancer, or is infertile? Those are disorders, mental and physical. Is your child any less worthy of your regard because of those?

If you think so, then my worries about the vagaries of Christianity are well-founded. That is ugly, small-minded, pissant, and unworthy of the Christ’s legacy – and your child is probably better off without your presence. Stay away, and in so doing bless that marriage.

 

[latinmasslover]

That was not my point and you know it.

You think the Society of Friends is a ‘feel-good’ religion? Sometimes I wonder how Publisher manages to keep his cool so well around you all. The Society is not about ‘feeling good’, it’s about truly unconditional love and support for the community; and in this respect I think it has Catholicism thoroughly beaten out. Unconditional love isn’t easy. Would you choose to be crucified?

Apples and oranges. A same-sex relationship endangers only the immortal soul according to certain Christian denominations, and that’s something I don’t even believe exists. An abusive relationship produces real, tangible, immediate physical, mental, and emotional harm.

I have to say that I’m not familiar with the Society of Friends, but it obviously “feel-good.” Most nonCatholic “Christian” anything is. It’s about feeling good and making others comfortable in their sin, which is not something Jesus did. If you want to talk about being Christlike, look at what He said and did. He did not come so everybody could live as they want.

Dear Publisher accuses me of just quoting Scripture-those are the words of His God (allegedly) and if his personal opinion differs from God’s law then he is the one in error, not God.

The example I gave with the daughter is the same thing. What if she were to say, “Mom, Dad, I love him though. I’m not going to not marry him because he to beats me and is addicted to drugs, he has a lot of good qualities. Who are you to say that this is a deciding issue on whether or not to stay with him?” It’s the same thing. God doesn’t lay down laws so that we’ll be miserable; He decreed how things should be, and how they shouldn’t, because He sees all the effects of it.

If you want to condone homosexual behavior, then what about pedophilia? Statutory rape (where the “victim” says yes)? I’m sure in the name of God you’d approve this also, right? And before you say it’s not the same thing, it is.

 

[latinmasslover]

You won’t attend just because your child has a ‘disorder’? What if the child’s unipolar depressive, schizophrenic, has cancer, or is infertile? Those are disorders, mental and physical. Is your child any less worthy of your regard because of those?

If you think so, then my worries about the vagaries of Christianity are well-founded. That is ugly, small-minded, pissant, and unworthy of the Christ’s legacy – and your child is probably better off without your presence. Stay away, and in so doing bless that marriage.

Pedopilia’s a “disorder” also. You support this also?

 

[defenderoftruth]

You won’t attend just because your child has a ‘disorder’? What if the child’s unipolar depressive, schizophrenic, has cancer, or is infertile? Those are disorders, mental and physical. Is your child any less worthy of your regard because of those?

If you think so, then my worries about the vagaries of Christianity are well-founded. That is ugly, small-minded, pissant, and unworthy of the Christ’s legacy – and your child is probably better off without your presence. Stay away, and in so doing bless that marriage

It’s sin period. It’s like going to a second marriage (adultery). Yes and a schizophrenic shouldn’t be allowed to roam free without medication. Yet homosexuals can take CHILDREN to their parades and celebrate perversion with naked people writhing on eachother plastic toys etc. ??? Worthy? Do you read the bible and know what the teachings of the church from the beginning say? Ugly, small-minded, p#ssant, and unworthy of Christ’s legacy? Sounds like you are one of those “tolerant” people I was talking about. I’m intolerant of homosexuality and I’ll admit it, will you admit you are intolerant of Christian teaching? Child is better off knowing mom and dad love them enough not to help them in their sin. While their child (Lord forbid) is burning in hell they wouldn’t want mom and dad there with them because they celebrated their sin with them. There is no “blessing” of a homosexual marriage except by satan that hates God, his creation and wants all to suffer in hell like he will. Is that the “blessing” you were talking about?

People that have cancer don’t have cigarette smoking parties, the disorder needs to be treated not sanctioned in “marriage” otherwise it will lead to death.