Should Catholic Teenagers understand and be knowledgable of NFP?

[Bruised_Reed]

Actually…they say you can but don’t recommend it because if it fails…the chances you’ll get pregnant is significantly higher then typical condom use.

That’s what I read in FAM-based Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

They said if you are really serious about avoiding then abstinence is best and recommended.

That would stand to reason. I was just wary of the possibilty of condom use being a thing if someone really dug into this and whether they didn’t care if the use of condoms was forbidden or now thought they were given the green light because it was in a resource that taught FAM.

 

[Kelfa28]

That would stand to reason. I was just wary of the possibilty of condom use being a thing if someone really dug into this and whether they didn’t care if the use of condoms was forbidden or now thought they were given the green light because it was in a resource that taught FAM.

No, you’re right.

Either way, it’s still against Church teaching.

It just makes sense that there is a secular impracticality to the idea.

 

[Rau]

Compared to the widely touted failure rate of 2% you regularly see around here?

24% is astronomical. It’s huge compared to typical use of the IUD and surgery and it’s over 3 times higher then the pill…for typical use.
That is massive.

The margin of error is even bigger because every couple using NFP is different. Some couples are more open to having another baby then others. Some couples are more likely to call another baby a “bonus” or a “what the heck” baby. Cycles vary widely between everyone…some can use NFP without any issue and without help. Others have all kinds of issues and need loads of help…some have easy cycles one month and difficult cycles other months.

I doubt there is any way to actually find a true “failure rate” because NFP is all over the map…including couples who loosely use NFP and would never call another baby a “method failure” to begin with.

The truth is that one can achieve perfect use far more easily and on a more consistent basis with the pill.
The gap, in terms of failure, is closed, in a big way, between people who took the pill perfectly and people who didn’t.

You take it at the same time every single day. You aren’t interpreting anything. Every month is the same.
If you follow the instructions and are cautious…especially if you are taking antibiotics or other meds that can adversely effect the pill.

Just like antibiotics adversely effect the pill…and patients aren’t told about it…it’s not universally taught that antihistamines greatly effect mucus readings and alcohol can effect temp readings…enough to effect the temp cover line.

Every method has a failure rate. The truth is that the NFP user failure rate is rarely mentioned.

I had no idea there was an actual failure rate. The literature I had never mentioned it. It did say you could achieve a 98% success rate with perfect use.

But there is such a massive margin of error with NFP that I doubt perfect use is even achievable…for anyone.

Where did you 24% in the data I provided?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think every young woman should start learning about her monthly cycles and the gift of her fertility using NFP. It takes many cycles to figure out the natural patterns of her monthly cycles, sometimes years if there are health issues. It may even help her and her doctor detect health issues that need to be addressed and treated promptly. The only thing different is that she wouldn’t share this information with a current boyfriend as there is no need. Certainly she should share this information with an NFP instructor to see if she is charting and determining signs correctly. Also a doctor if she suspects issues.

I fall somewhere between you and kelfa.
I think we will teach our girls about thier cycles and in an age appropriate way about nfp. Nfp is a tool that can be used when it is necessary. If a circumstance arose that they needed to learn nfp then sometimes it’s too late or inconvenient within a marriage to learn about the different methods.
We would not teach it to them as something you have to use all the time but rather something you would use if you needed to. And we would be honest about it.

 

[Rau]

Where did you 24% in the data I provided?

Sorry - that should read “where did you see 24% in the data I provided?”

 

[Anglewannabe]

Of course Catholic teenagers should know. Maybe not the exact details but at least that such a thing exist.

I remember being 10 years old and finding out there was such a thing as the pill and my mom telling me it was a sin. I told my friends about it and how sad it was that some people committed that sin. They all turned around and said ‘My mom takes the pill’. I will never forget one 10 year old girl even said to me ‘Friday is the night most couples have sex. If they aren’t on the pill then they are having one baby a week’ Saddest part is this kid really believed that to be true. I think she needed a NFP lesson at 10

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think teenagers should but I still have a very difficult time with this topic.

I have three daughters and I don’t want them to be lied to. I want them to know the pros and cons of everything…including the cons and drawbacks of NFP.

I was lied to. I was lied to by CCL and it left an extraordinarily bad taste in my mouth.

I also don’t want them to be lied to about breastfeeding either. I was lied to about breastfeeding as well.

The Church itself did not lie but the laymen who are represented by the Church lied.

I want them to know that nursing is not for everyone, it’s not even for every child. It’s not a reliable method for spacing pregnancies.

The secular world has lied to us about contraception…that is undeniably true.

But being lied to about NFP is wrong too.

It has a high failure rate and it’s not a one-size-fits-all method.

I really, really hope I can achieve acceptance and peace with this teaching and learn to either get over my anxiety with it or learn to handle it.

Maybe I will by the time they reach puberty.

Actually I think you have the right idea. If you introduce nfp to your own children you can control the rhetoric and give them a solid view of it.

 

[Xantippe]

Of course Catholic teenagers should know. Maybe not the exact details but at least that such a thing exist.

I remember being 10 years old and finding out there was such a thing as the pill and my mom telling me it was a sin. I told my friends about it and how sad it was that some people committed that sin. They all turned around and said ‘My mom takes the pill’. I will never forget one 10 year old girl even said to me ‘Friday is the night most couples have sex. If they aren’t on the pill then they are having one baby a week’ Saddest part is this kid really believed that to be true. I think she needed a NFP lesson at 10

I had a high school classmate from a liberal family. She said that when she was younger, she firmly believed her parents had only had sex twice (an easy mistake–they had two kids).

There are all sorts of possible wacky misunderstandings. It’s often hard to know what kids know and don’t know.

 

[Rau]

…I doubt there is any way to actually find a true “failure rate” because NFP is all over the map…including couples who loosely use NFP and would never call another baby a “method failure” to begin with…

Nevertheless, controlled studies have been done, and generally report, for each of numerous methods (including the Pill, condoms, surgery, NFP, etc.) both:

• a “Method” effectiveness (ie. ‘perfect use’ effectiveness)
• a “User” effectiveness (ie. success rates actually achieved by the test cohort).

This is the case with the Wiki article I provided earlier: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

The effectiveness rates quoted for NFP are: Circa 99.4% (Method) and 98.2% (User).
It is certainly not the most effective option, (by either measure) but compares quite well. And if important to understand that:

• some methods may work poorly for some women;
• NFP can be made more effective by varying the ‘model’ to broaden the assessed ‘fertile’ period.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I think that, after explaining to them thoroughly what the Church teaches about chastity and sexuality, that they need to know it exists and why. I’m torn on teaching them the specifics. I have a friend who, let’s say, was an expert practitioner from the time she was in her early teens and felt free to demonstrate her mastery of the technique with anyone and everyone as long as it wasn’t a fertile period. I know that if teens are going to have sex the actual methods aren’t the biggest issue, but the times this topic has come up with my wife, I can’t help thinking about that particular friend.

 

[Rau]

I’m wondering, in accordance to the question that should Teenagers know what NFP is and the process of it or is it something best left until Marriage? What’s people’s thoughts?

It seems more than reasonable that somewhere in the 13 year school curriculum, children would learn about the human reproductive system, including the ‘cycle’ that applies to the female system. That there is a fertile period and an infertile period (subject to anomalies) would be covered. All this is of no particular religious significance - and there is little point - within what is essentially a biology context - to proceed further to identify that there are observations one can make to determine the position in cycle.

I have no idea what, if anything much at all, is covered in high school (catholic) religious education programs. But if sexual morality is being covered, then presumably contraception and NFP would be covered - the latter to the level of principles, not to the level that a person having need to practice it would require.

This begs the question of what we reasonably anticipate might be taught in non-Catholic high schools. I imagine a fairly wide menu of contraceptive alternatives might be addressed, with a passing mention of “abstinence”.

Perhaps someone who attended School not so long ago can let us know what is covered?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

As I stated before, women should have a working knowledge of their bodies. I’m not sure what the benefit of not knowing would be.

Basically women ovulate and then they have their periods about 2 weeks later. (Give or take a few days ). Women also have symptoms around ovulation and also symptoms if something isn’t “right”. For example, a too short post peak might mean there is a health problem.

I don’t think this knowledge would be harmful, or cause promiscuity.

Also knowing about it young and chaste would make it easier if needed after marriage.

 

[LongingSoul]

I think that, after explaining to them thoroughly what the Church teaches about chastity and sexuality, that they need to know it exists and why. I’m torn on teaching them the specifics. I have a friend who, let’s say, was an expert practitioner from the time she was in her early teens and felt free to demonstrate her mastery of the technique with anyone and everyone as long as it wasn’t a fertile period. I know that if teens are going to have sex the actual methods aren’t the biggest issue, but the times this topic has come up with my wife, I can’t help thinking about that particular friend.

I think that would be an anomoly outside of marriage. For one, STD’s are so prevalent among the unmarried promiscuous that your friend must have been literally riddled. For a woman motivated enough to master fertility awareness to that degree it seems out of character to go ahead and engage in unprotected sex with a lot of anyones and everyones.

 

[verily88]

I’m wondering, in accordance to the question that should Teenagers know what NFP is and the process of it or is it something best left until Marriage? What’s people’s thoughts?

I don’t think detailed knowledge of NFP is necessary for teens, but neither is it harmful.
However, girls should definitely be given the education of charting their cycles!! That way, even when their cycles are irregular they can know when to expect menstruation. That’s awesome when you have exams or sporting events coming up, for example. Nobody likes getting caught unprepared.
Also, it provides a girl with an accurate picture of what’s going on with her cycle, e.g., if there’s irregular spotting, she has an actual record of it which can be shown to a doctor. When charting, a girl might learn how stress affects her cycle, or it might highlight how her energy levels can change over the course of the month.
I also think it’s nice to get to know your body and admire it. (Another awesome step to take is to use a menstrual cup, but that is another topic!)

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I think that, after explaining to them thoroughly what the Church teaches about chastity and sexuality, that they need to know it exists and why. I’m torn on teaching them the specifics. I have a friend who, let’s say, was an expert practitioner from the time she was in her early teens and felt free to demonstrate her mastery of the technique with anyone and everyone as long as it wasn’t a fertile period. I know that if teens are going to have sex the actual methods aren’t the biggest issue, but the times this topic has come up with my wife, I can’t help thinking about that particular friend.

I don’t believe you. Not one little bit.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Actually…they say you can but don’t recommend it because if it fails…the chances you’ll get pregnant is significantly higher then typical condom use.

That’s what I read in FAM-based Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

They said if you are really serious about avoiding then abstinence is best and recommended.

Well, that makes a lot more sense, than my understanding of FAM as “the same as NFP, except that the couple can use condoms when fertile”. I kept thinking “So, the idea is for couples to undertake all that laborious work of checking and charting, just so they can find out when they get to have sex without condoms? Is sex with condoms really THAT horrible?”

Anyway, to get back to the actual question. I think that it is very important for a woman to be familiar with her own menstrual cycle and how her own body works (or doesn’t work), whether she’s Catholic or not.

I do track my own cycles using a “period pal” app and while I don’t use it for family planning, as I realize that NFP is more sophisticated than just a calendar rhythm method, it is very helpful in tracking certain symptoms that pop up, or just predicting periods at all – I was taught a very simple “a woman gets a period once a month” version of the cycle as a teenager, and I literally expected it to start on the same day of every month and got very anxious and assumed I had “irregular cycles” because it didn’t. As it turns out my cycles are usually VERY regular.

As for “will teaching NFP make kids more likely to have sex” – same debate for ABC, the HPV vaccine (and before it was made an infant vaccine, the hepatitis B vaccine), etc. Yes, I was a teenager when the Hepatitis B vaccine was introduced. I remember a very similar debate about whether giving teens Hepatitis B vaccine would make it more likely for them to have sex or use drugs, as those are the primary modes of transmission in the US. Since the vaccine was later incorporated into the baby vaccine schedule, that debate got cut off before there was any real evidence about it one way or the other.

BTW my own mother, while very conservative about sex, had no problem with me getting the vaccine. I later realized one reason is because she unfortunately knew some girls who got pregnant from nonconsensual, or at least very exploitative sex (20 year old men having sex with 14 year old girls) and realized that kids can be at risk of STDs even if they themselves are chaste. This kind of exploitation almost happened to my own sister. Unfortunately sexual violence is not uncommon and I think that’s another factor to consider in these discussions.

 

[Kelfa28]

Where did you 24% in the data I provided?

The very first thing in the link I saw was a chart that listed the effective rates of every kind of contraception.

Fertility based methods…AKA NFP is listed as “least effective” with a failure rate of 24%
I’ve seen those numbers myself in other secular studies done by various different agencies.

 

[Kelfa28]

Nevertheless, controlled studies have been done, and generally report, for each of numerous methods (including the Pill, condoms, surgery, NFP, etc.) both:

• a “Method” effectiveness (ie. ‘perfect use’ effectiveness)
• a “User” effectiveness (ie. success rates actually achieved by the test cohort).

This is the case with the Wiki article I provided earlier: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

The effectiveness rates quoted for NFP are: Circa 99.4% (Method) and 98.2% (User).
It is certainly not the most effective option, (by either measure) but compares quite well. And if important to understand that:

• some methods may work poorly for some women;
• NFP can be made more effective by varying the ‘model’ to broaden the assessed ‘fertile’ period.

These studies fail to address other major issues.

Not everyone has access to effective instructors.
In some diocese they only offer one method.

STM was a colossal failure for my husband and I.

We cannot afford Marquette. It’s too expensive. We cannot afford some of the other monitors like Lady Comp…they are too expensive.

There are no Creighton or NaPro doctors around for us to take advantage of. Way too far of a drive for a mother of young children with a husband who works 12-14 hour shifts.
Nor will they take our insurance.

I seriously doubt the 98% user success rate.

NFP failed us twice and we followed the rules for EBF and that also failed twice.

I used the pill for nearly a decade and was sexually active the entire time and never had a pregnancy scare.

Less then 4 years of NFP use with 2 fails and 3 children.

Ten years of pill use and no pregnancies.

You tell me what I should or should not trust based on numbers alone.

I’m not arguing anything about Church teaching. We all know what the Church teaches.

But if I was trying to convince a secular person of NFP and they asked my personal experience with the pill versus NFP…they’d probably laugh at the supposed 98% effective number.

I know plenty of women…both online, through my parish and through Facebook groups where NFP failed them. Where multiple methods failed too.

 

[Rau]

The very first thing in the link I saw was a chart that listed the effective rates of every kind of contraception.

Fertility based methods…AKA NFP is listed as “least effective” with a failure rate of 24%
I’ve seen those numbers myself in other secular studies done by various different agencies.

Please read a little further. There is a large table - the centrepiece of the article - that provides failure rates for a range of specific techniques, referenced to studies. NFP in the table is labelled: Symptoms-based fertility awareness[ref 1][note 1], and the failure rate measured is well under 2% as I quoted in a prior post. What you saw is non-specific, and includes a mix of methods, including wearing condoms on fertile days!

 

[Rau]

These studies fail to address other major issues.

Not everyone has access to effective instructors.
In some diocese they only offer one method.

STM was a colossal failure for my husband and I.

We cannot afford Marquette. It’s too expensive. We cannot afford some of the other monitors like Lady Comp…they are too expensive.

There are no Creighton or NaPro doctors around for us to take advantage of. Way too far of a drive for a mother of young children with a husband who works 12-14 hour shifts.
Nor will they take our insurance.

I seriously doubt the 98% user success rate.

NFP failed us twice and we followed the rules for EBF and that also failed twice.

I used the pill for nearly a decade and was sexually active the entire time and never had a pregnancy scare.

Less then 4 years of NFP use with 2 fails and 3 children…

I know plenty of women…both online, through my parish and through Facebook groups where NFP failed them. Where multiple methods failed too.

It follows that if circumstances prevent proper learning of a method, application of the method will likely fail. No argument there. But anecdotes don’t substitute for studies.