Should Catholics be opposed to war?

[Timothysis]

i will walk up to a veteran and tell him to his face that he has a very good chance of being in** moral** sin.

While it may have been a typo, your grasp of Catholic teaching is lacking, to say the least. The Church has always acknowledged the debt owed to those who put their lives in danger to serve others.

Would you say that the Vatican Guards are in "moral" sin? They are all military men who now serve the pope and people of Vatican City.

 

[St_Francis]

I’m not sure how I feel, but are we supposed to be opposed to war?
Should we be proud of America and all that?
I’m unsure. You know with
“Thou shalt not kill” and all…
Should we proud when our sons/daughters wish to join the army?
I’m just unsure what the teaching is on this. Going to check the catechism now

Christ healed the servant of the Centurion without making any comment on his profession. Had He thought that military service was an evil profession, we can all be sure that He would have acted differently, no?

If a son or daughter joins the military, I think that one should be proud of that decision, the willingness on their part to risk their lives in protection of their country.

I think your question: Should we be proud of American and all that? shows that perhaps you are asking also asking about patriotism, which is a virtue. We should be proud of our nation in its goodness, we are obligated to love the people of our nation even to the point of risking our lives to defend them, and we should love our nation sufficiently to pray for its conversion to the Fullness of God’s Truth.

However, that does not mean that we can never disagree with certain actions our nation may chose to take, nor does it mean that we must hold the Protestant view that because we have been blessed that we are somehow favored by God, or that our nation is somehow perfect, the City on the Hill. As Catholics, of course, we have different ideas about all this.

 

[someperson555]

You may *disagree *about the justice of a particular war, but you would need to back that up. I haven’t noticed our benefiting oil-wise from the wars, and Bush specifically excluded that, so I cannot imagine what you are talking about. .

Iraq has not harmed a single american before the iraq war. they had nothing to do with 9/11. George Bush along with the US government lied and said that they had “weapons of mass destruction”. Iraq had no ill intention against america. yet we went in there anyway. kinda hard to justify that dont ya think?

What? How can you say that you are not intending to cast judgement, and then do so? That is like someone’s saying, I don’t mean to hurt your feelings, but you are incredibly ugly. .

it is a christians duty to admonish sinners or people who are in erroneous beliefs. its just like telling a drunk that he is in mortal sin, or telling a sexually active homosexual that he is in mortal sin. thats not judgment, thats just telling it like it is.

Those who volunteer to join the military generally do so out of a desire to serve their country, to defend their nation. This is salutory, not condemnable. .

oh really? would they do it for free? would they do it solely out of “love for their nation”?

They are also putting their lives at risk in order to protect you. I would suggest a little respect on your part. If you want to cast judgement, do so on those who are responsible for the decisions, not on those who are risking their lives.

lol protect me from who? a bunch of middle easterners who never had the intention to cause me harm in the first place? a bunch of europeans who were fighting eachother? a bunch of vietnamese commies who (again) did not attack us first.

 

[St_Francis]

oh really? just what is so nonsensical about what i said? every word of it is true. in the past 20th century not ONE war met the requirments for a just war. those poor misguided soldiers died for the international plutocrats. not our freedoms, sorry

Can you explain precisely how it was unjust to fight against Hitler?

 

[Timothysis]

oh really? just what is so nonsensical about what i said? every word of it is true. in the past 20th century not ONE war met the requirments for a just war. those poor misguided soldiers died for the international plutocrats. not our freedoms, sorry

So, Britain and France committed an unjust act against Germany when they declared war in response to the invasion of Poland in 1939?

Britain committed an unjust act against Germany by declaring war when Germany violated the neutrality of Belgium in its attempt to forcefully invade France in 1914?

Who were the “international plutocrats” who were behind these events and sought their success?

 

[clem456]

Iraq has not harmed a single american before the iraq war. they had nothing to do with 9/11. George Bush along with the US government lied and said that they had “weapons of mass destruction”. Iraq had no ill intention against america. yet we went in there anyway. kinda hard to justify that dont ya think?

it is a christians duty to admonish sinners or people who are in erroneous beliefs. its just like telling a drunk that he is in mortal sin, or telling a sexually active homosexual that he is in mortal sin. thats not judgment, thats just telling it like it is…

Before you can admonish, you need to have some moral authority and know the subject you are talking about.
You can have valid discussions about Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, as to our justification for being there. In the case of WW2 you have no leg to stand on. An agressor began killing millions (with an M) of innocent human beings. If we had not stepped in many millions more would have died. That would have included Americans if we had not helped. You and I owe those people our freedom. They are heroes in a just cause.

 

[someperson555]

You should study history as well. Make a list of who invaded who and under what conditions. If you don’t know and understand the reasons then studying the Catechism will not answer any questions you have.

No one wants to put their lives on the line. As an American, do you want to be sent to a foreign country knowing that other people want you dead? Your question makes little sense if you lack an understanding for the motivations for war.

amazon.com/Serving-God-Country-Military-Chaplains/dp/0425247864

Peace,
Ed

WW1, america entered into the war without provocation.
ww2, america provoked the japanese attack on pearl harbour then entered into the war
korean, vietnamese wars, america invaded those countries under the pretenses of “containing communism”. but frankly no one asked us to do that. once again that was not a just war by catholic standards.
serbia, america dropped bombs on serbian civillians. they got involved in a conflict that was NONE of their business. a catholic CANNOT stand by these acts. sorry but “God and country” doesnt always go together. God warned us against idolatry. when country is wrong, we must stand by God.

 

[someperson555]

So, Britain and France committed an unjust act against Germany when they declared war in response to the invasion of Poland in 1939?

Britain committed an unjust act against Germany by declaring war when Germany violated the neutrality of Belgium in its attempt to forcefully invade France in 1914?

Who were the “international plutocrats” who were behind these events and sought their success?

while i wont justify the acts of Hitler, you should just realise that Hitler merely took back German territory which was given to poland after the treaty of versailles. and its interesting how the west never declared war on the USSR after they invaded poland.

so as you can clearly see, the true motivation for the declaration of war on Hitler was NOT polish freedom.

 

[garn9173]

Iraq has not harmed a single american before the iraq war. they had nothing to do with 9/11. George Bush along with the US government lied and said that they had “weapons of mass destruction”. Iraq had no ill intention against america. yet we went in there anyway. kinda hard to justify that dont ya think?.

Even Dems acknowledged that Iraq had WMD’s.

lol protect me from who? a bunch of middle easterners who never had the intention to cause me harm in the first place? a bunch of europeans who were fighting eachother? a bunch of vietnamese commies who (again) did not attack us first.

I would suggest you go back and retake your American History class you had in high school. The United States had LITTLE interest in getting invovled with WWII, it wasn’t until after the Japenese bombed Pearl Harbor and declared war on America that we got invovled. No question Vietnam was a very unpopular war, but Communism was spreading like wildlfie throughout SE Asia and it needed to stop.

Edit: Please prove this.

ww2, america provoked the japanese attack on pearl harbour then entered into the war
.

 

[clem456]

while i wont justify the acts of Hitler, you should just realise that Hitler merely took back German territory which was given to poland after the treaty of versailles. and its interesting how the west never declared war on the USSR after they invaded poland.

so as you can clearly see, the true motivation for the declaration of war on Hitler was NOT polish freedom.

Dude. You need to retake world history class. I never thought I’d see the day when Poland was accused of having land that didn’t belong to them.
ROTFLMAO

 

[clem456]

In fact, this conversation is exhibit number 1 in the case against the state of modern education.

 

[sedonaman]

Dude. You need to retake world history class. I never thought I’d see the day when Poland was accused of having land that didn’t belong to them.
ROTFLMAO

 

[sedonaman]

… I haven’t noticed our benefiting oil-wise from the wars, and Bush specifically excluded that, so I cannot imagine what you are talking about.

BDS.

 

[Timothysis]

while i wont justify the acts of Hitler,

You just did.

you should just realise that Hitler merely took back German territory which was given to poland after the treaty of versailles.

Germany signed the treaty. Germany, without provocation, invaded a sovereign country and reduced it’s population. What exactly am I supposed to “realize?”

and its interesting how the west never declared war on the USSR after they invaded poland.

I agree. But was it because of the plutocrats?

so as you can clearly see, the true motivation for the declaration of war on Hitler was NOT polish freedom.

Friend, I don’t think you clearly see anything.

 

[someperson555]

Dude. You need to retake world history class. I never thought I’d see the day when Poland was accused of having land that didn’t belong to them.
ROTFLMAO

sarcastic and ignorant of the facts at the same time. wow. crack open your history and look it up yourself. after world war 1, parts of Germany were given to poland. Hitler RECLAIMED these already german areas. and FYI the polish werent angels, they were massacring german civillians who lived there. thats actually what prompted Hitler to invade.

and you still havent answered my previous question, why didnt the west declare war on the USSR after it invaded poland too? also its extremely hypocritical of the west to be against the invasion of poland when britain, france, and america had numerous colonies in africa, asia, and south america. the USSR, america, britian, and france were bigger imperialists than Hitler!

 

[JRKH]

I’m not sure how I feel, but are we supposed to be opposed to war?
Should we be proud of America and all that?
I’m unsure. You know with
“Thou shalt not kill” and all…
Should we proud when our sons/daughters wish to join the army?
I’m just unsure what the teaching is on this. Going to check the catechism now

Probably the best thing to do is to read through THIS section of the catechism.

The question you raise is a complex one and for many of us it does not have a clear cut answer.

My answer to your title question would have to be a resounding YES Catholics should be opposed to war. War, in and of itself violates the call to Love. Therefore we should oppose war (as a concept).

But there are other questions that are perhaps not so clear cut and I am sure have been touched on in this thread (I have not read all of the replies.
For instance one might ask the question Should Catholics participate in a war?..That answer would have to be “it depends”. It depends on what kind of war.
Should Catholics participate in an aggressive war? - I think no.
Should Catholics participate in a defensive war? - I think yes and it should be waged in a manner that achieves the quickest end and the most just peace possible.

I’m sure you can readily see how each of these basic variations in the question can lead to even more variations and nuances.
As I said, it is a complicated issue.

Peace
James

 

[sedonaman]

… George Bush along with the US government lied and said that they had “weapons of mass destruction”. …

This is an absurd argument that has been around ever since the invasion. Just think what you are saying. To lie is to make a statement that you know is untrue. If Bush lied about Iraq having WsMD, he would have known his lie would be exposed the minute the coalition forces toppled Saddam’s regime. Are liars in the habit of pursuing courses of action that reveal their lies? I don’t think so. :yawn:

 

[Vouthon]

I think that WII was the truly just war of the 20th century, and one of the few in all of human history.

Hitler set out to annihilate Poland and Eastern Europe and impose upon these innocent souls his racial ideology which had been condemned by the Catholic Church in 1937 through the encyclical, Mit Brennender Sorge.

“All Poles,” Himmler swore, “will disappear from the world.” On August 22, 1939, one week before the Nazi invasion of Poland, Hitler gave the Wehrmacht their instructions: “Kill without pity or mercy all men, women and children of Polish descent or language… Be merciless. Be brutal. It is necessary to proceed with maximum severity. The war is to be a war of annihilation.”

August 22. Foreign Minister Ribbentrop goes to Russia to sign the German-Russian “Non-Aggression Pact” which would lead on September I to the beginning of World War II. Hitler summons Nazi leaders and all his army commanders to inform them what to expect after the Polish army is destroyed: “Things will then happen which would not be to the taste of the German generals—the destruction of the Polish intelligentsia, in particular the priesthood, by the SS.”

Could Hitler’s intention in Poland have been any clearer? Should the world have sat back and let Hitler annihilate peoples he considered to be “inferior races”?

Not to mention his desire to eliminate the Catholic priesthood and hierarchy in Poland. At Leczyca, the Jesuits were expelled from their residence and forced to watch as their church was looted of sacred vessels, vestments, reliquaries and works of art. The priests were not even allowed into the church to save the Blessed Sacrament. Most of the priests were arrested and sent to concentration camps.

In Germany in 1935, Hermann Goering gave the rationale for crushing the Church: ***“Catholic believers carry away but one impression from attendance at divine services and that is that the Catholic Church rejects the institutions of the Nationalist State.” ***

With Japan, that country launched a completely unjustified invasion of China in 1937 which led to the Rape of Nanking. Japan believed that it had a divine mission to create a “Co-propserity sphere” (beginning in Asia) which meant that it would create world peace by conquering the entire world and putting it under the authority of the Emperor, who was worshipped as a God in the flesh, and believed to descend directly from Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess. Japan thus believed that it had to wage a holy war against the West and it set out first to graft an Empire in Asia by force. It also believed that the Japanese people were a superior race to all others, which justified the suppression of all other peoples, a belief that was so pervasive that the United States only eradicated it by banning in 1945 and separating the Shinto religion from the state and forcing the Emperor to publically deny that Japanese people were inherently superior to other human beings or that he was a living god. This was known as, “The Humanity Decelaration”: Thus the Allies forced Hirohito to say in 1946 these words:

The ties between Us and Our people have always stood upon mutual trust and affection. They do not depend upon mere legends and myths. They are not predicated on the false conception that the Emperor is divine, and that the Japanese people are superior to other races and fated to rule the world. (official translation)

To try and claim that World War Two did not have a just cause on the part of the ALLIES, in my opinion to lack humanity, severely. Well one could criticize certain actions taken by the Allies during the war (ie Dresden bombing and Hiroshima/Nagasaki) however to try and claim that they did not have a just cause is ludicrous and dangerous nonsense. It is an offense to all the brave young men who gave up their lives to end the ideologies of IMPERIAL JAPANESE STATE SHINTO and NAZISM, and who we have to thank today for the humane, modern, thriving democracies of Japan and Germany.

The lies of men such as Pat Buchannan, who are reprimanded by all notable academics and historians, need to be laid to rest.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Google just war theory by saint Tomas aqinus a criteria that makes war just and if one thing doesn’t fulfill the criteria it’s not just . So far no wars have been just

That’s highly debatable, what with WWII and the Revolution. You can even make a case for the War of 1812.

I’d say one that’s more or less unarguable is that WWII was a just war.

(BTW, good post sedonaman.)

EDIT: And good post Vouthon.

 

[sedonaman]

…
ww2, america provoked the japanese attack on pearl harbour then entered into the war
…

This is true, but not in the way you think. The Japanese attack was provoked by America’s ignoring Japan’s aggression in Asia. This was appeasement by acquiescence.

P.S. You conveniently overlook that Germany declared war against the U.S. a few days after the Pearl Harbor attack.