Should Catholics be opposed to war?

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onenow1 said:
Everyone should be opposed to war !! What does it accomplish ?🍿

Peace
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“We make war so that we may live in peace.” -Aristotle

Take a look at my signature, some things are worth fighting for.
 
sedonaman said:
Then why don’t you understand it?
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I do understand your anger. I get angry at “terrorists” too. That’s when I know it is time to forgive:

2844 Christian prayer extends to the forgiveness of enemies,144 transfiguring the disciple by configuring him to his Master. Forgiveness is a high-point of Christian prayer; only hearts attuned to God’s compassion can receive the gift of prayer. Forgiveness also bears witness that, in our world, love is stronger than sin. The martyrs of yesterday and today bear this witness to Jesus. Forgiveness is the fundamental condition of the reconciliation of the children of God with their Father and of men with one another.145

It is our society that is going further and further from the gospel in terms of civility. Racism and unforgiving tone is rampant in talk radio. Somehow, anger and hatred have become more socially acceptable in the public forum.
Haven’t you ever heard of “moral equivalence”? An example is, “one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.”
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Yes, these are wise, and humorous words. It is a statement confirming that people have different perceptions and viewpoints. The statement reflects the reality that our own experiences and perceptions vary a great deal. This statement does not say that right and wrong are relative, it says that people will have different viewpoints as to who is right and who is wrong. All people have some part of the truth.
“When we fail to discriminate between good and evil, right and wrong, and the behaviors that lead to success and those that lead to failure, we do not end up objective, neutral, tolerant, or even indifferent; we end up hating what is good, right, and successful.
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You bring up a good point about discriminating between right and wrong behaviors. We should all do this, and do all we can to enhance the former and correct the latter. Please give an example of a person hating what is “good, right, and successful”.
Concern for the rights of criminals has led to hatred of their victims.
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I am interested in the evidence to back this statement.
Does that go for terrorists, too?
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Well, one could hope that someone we call a “terrorist” would follow Jesus and remove the post from his eye. If no one removes their posts, then everyone remains blind.
By engaging in terrorism, they have already de-humanized themselves.
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This is a very understandable argument also, and a common justification for vindication and killing rather than forgiveness and trying to reconcile. The fact is that people are people; we are all capable of being terrorists.

The crowd at the foot of the cross could also say that Jesus de-humanized himself.
Your empathy with terrorists is part of the problem, not part of the solution, for activity that is rewarded is likely to be repeated.
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Forgiveness is a reward to the person who forgives. Forgiveness that leads to reconciliation lessens the chances of future violence. See the studies and success stories of Restorative Justice. Recidivism is greatly diminished. I can provide the evidence if you like, or you could google it yourself.
Look. You are all wrapped up in trying to understand terrorists and their motives. I don’t see that they have any legitimate grievances at all, least of which justifies taking out their frustrations on those who have nothing to do with their perceived grievances. That is why I call them evil: others exist only as an opportunity for them to do evil, and nothing else.
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I know you are quite knowledgeable on others’ opinions about this topic, but please read Pape’s book, Dying to Win. This book is based on real evidence, not conjecture. “Terrorists” have a purpose for what they are doing, they do not terrorize indiscriminately. What they are doing is evil and wrong, but not random.
The CCC says that, “The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy [to go to war] belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.” This applies to the terrorists as well as the rest of us, or does the Catechism exempt them and other non-Catholics?
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It is obvious that other people are being guided by a different set of rules. Do we play by their rules, or by our rules? If it is all about an eye for an eye, the whole world ends up blind. Jesus commands us to stop the cycle.

I am wondering in all this, Sedonaman, what is it that you want? Do you want me to agree with you that violence is sometimes necessary? I agree with you on this. A local clerk shot a guy who came into his store pointing a gun; he did what was necessary. Are you requesting that I not forgive “terrorists”? Are you requesting that the reader of this thread hold onto their hatred and/or anger? Please, tell me your request in all this.
 
starshiptrooper said:
“We make war so that we may live in peace.” -Aristotle

Take a look at my signature, some things are worth fighting for.
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Hi Trooper
Well there has been many wars, the peace you speak of is momentary is it not ? Lets look for the peace Jesus speaks of,the peace where the lion lies down with the Lamb. This is, as the Gospel teaches.
Scripture
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someperson555 said:
i will walk up to a veteran and tell him to his face that he has a very good chance of being in mortal sin. volunteering to fight in a war of aggression for money is basically being a hitman. so far in the 20th century america has not fought a single war which meets the catholic requirments for “just war”.
and if there are any catholics who support ANY of the wars in this century, i suggest they take a deep study of the catechism.
btw, im an American.
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First of all, which century are you referring to? The 20th or the 21st? We’re in the 21st century now, and I certainly agree that any war we’ve fought in the 12 years of this century are at least arguably unjust.

However, are you serious that we should not have fought World War II?! If so, then we might as well stop right now because such a belief does not contain a lick of common sense and I don’t want to waste time arguing with someone who can’t see that.
 
littlesoul said:
I’m not sure how I feel, but are we supposed to be opposed to war?
Should we be proud of America and all that?
I’m unsure. You know with
“Thou shalt not kill” and all…
Should we proud when our sons/daughters wish to join the army?
I’m just unsure what the teaching is on this. Going to check the catechism now 🙂
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Yes we should be opposed to war (of course). It is an extreme solution of last resort which always constitutes a defeat for humanity. ‘Just war doctrine’ means that sometimes it is unavoidable however and we have a duty to protect those who are unable to protect themselves.
 
onenow1 said:
Hi Trooper
Well there has been many wars, the peace you speak of is momentary is it not ? Lets look for the peace Jesus speaks of,the peace where the lion lies down with the Lamb. This is, as the Gospel teaches.
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Unless God actively intervenes, that peace will remain a dream. People have free will, and there will always be people who will do evil things and they must be stopped.
 
bilop said:
Well, it took a war to get rid of Hitler, so that’s something.

God Bless
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Hi Bi Indeed 👍 Fighting this type of ideology, we must stand our ground, but is this God’s way ? My thing is, war is never the permanent answer,it seems at least to me we never examine other means,to there fullest extent.

Peace
onenoe1:)
 
"starshiptrooper:
Unless God actively intervenes, that peace will remain a dream. People have free will, and there will always be people who will do evil things and they must be stopped.
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So the fact that God wants us to push for peace means… nothing to Catholics? Come on now. I’m not a pacifist but come on, man.
JerryZ said:
:hmmm: that is the most factless statement ever utered by any one!

Can you name 1 Colony of America?

You said you are American :eek:

Seems to be a case of acute rectal ventriloquism!
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:banghead:

For starters:

Hawaii
Puerto Rico
The Philippines
Liberia
Cuba
U.S. Virgin Islands
American Samoa

Etc.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
So the fact that God wants us to push for peace means… nothing to Catholics? Come on now. I’m not a pacifist but come on, man.
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How do you expect us to push for peace? Disarm every nation? I can guarantee you that will be failure of epic proportions?

The only reasonable way to achieve peace short of God intervening is simply mantaining a strong military and having good allies.
 
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things, the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

“As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other. ”

“Judgment is given to men that they may use it. Because it may be used erroneously, are men to be told that they ought not to use it at all? To prohibit what they think pernicious is not claiming exemption from error, but fulfilling the duty incumbent on them, although fallible, of acting on their conscientious conviction. If we were never to act on our opinions, because those opinions may be wrong, we should leave all our interests uncared for, and all our duties unperformed. An objection which applies to all conduct can be no valid objection to any conduct in particular.”

~John Stuart Mill~
 
ahollars said:
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things, the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

“As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other. ”

“Judgment is given to men that they may use it. Because it may be used erroneously, are men to be told that they ought not to use it at all? To prohibit what they think pernicious is not claiming exemption from error, but fulfilling the duty incumbent on them, although fallible, of acting on their conscientious conviction. If we were never to act on our opinions, because those opinions may be wrong, we should leave all our interests uncared for, and all our duties unperformed. An objection which applies to all conduct can be no valid objection to any conduct in particular.”

~John Stuart Mill~
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Wow, I wish I had said that! 👍
 
•“There is a corollary to the conception of being too proud to fight. It is that the humble have to do most of the fighting.” – The Everlasting Man, 1925,GK Chesterton ,:hmmm:

Peace
 
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