J
JimG
Guest
Yes, as long as you are dead. But that is the question.
- Status
E
elts1956
Guest
I have a question about Terri Schiavo. If she was “brain dead” how did her body keep functioning? Was life support given for her organs, or her brain? Does anyone know how life support was used in this instance? I watched a bit of the controversy on TV. She looked alive to me.
L
Linda_Marie
Guest
Terri Schiavo was never diagnosed ‘brain dead’ by any doctor. That is what the media said. The doctors said she was in a Persistent Vegetative State. The only assistance she was receiving was the feeding tube. Heart beating by itself, lungs breathing, liver and kidneys functioning, nor was she in a coma until they stopped feeding her. If you stop feeding anyone, they will die.
There is a whole section in Archives on Terri if you want some more details.
In an organ donor related article:
Near-death case stirs organ donor debate
So, when are you dead?
G
graceandglory
Guest
I believe that’s a Christian Science perspective, and not a Catholic one you are sharing. If that is the thinking behind the morality of organ donation, then it has to be applied to all taking of medications, because if you are taking medication, you are robbing God of the opportunity for a miracle. Let God heal your diabetes, let God heal your stroke, don’t get in the way of a miracle.
G
graceandglory
Guest
There is? Where? That’s a pretty frightening statement, Can you back it up with some sources?
G
graceandglory
Guest
Looks like there’s a need for interpretation here by a moral theologian, and I’m not one
*** “bring about the …death of a human being.”*** I think that in legitimate hospital based organ retrieval, the person would have died naturally, but is being artificially kept “alive” on life support for the purpose of saving the organs. The person for all intents and purposes is dead. Once someone is brain dead, the heart could still be healthy, and the lungs and kidneys, if on life support and not left to “die.”So, this would bring up the theological question: “Where is our soul?” Does it have a bodily residence? What about the resurrection of the body? When does our soul leave our body? When our heart stops, and our blood stops circulating, or when there is no brain function?
We believe life begins at conception. When does our natural earthly life end? At the time the Dr. declares it on the medical record? What about when there is no Dr?
J
JimG
Guest
Yes. The key phrase in the section you quoted is “after death.” The question is: Is this person alive or dead? Now if a patient’s heart stops and cannot be restarted, the EKG is a flat-line, and THEN we put the patient on a respirator to oxygenate the organs for removal, that is less problematic than simply calling a patient brain dead who is still breathing and has a heartbeat.Looks like there’s a need for interpretation here by a moral theologian, and I’m not one
So, this would bring up the theological question: “Where is our soul?” Does it have a bodily residence? What about the resurrection of the body? When does our soul leave our body? When our heart stops, and our blood stops circulating, or when there is no brain function?
We believe life begins at conception. When does our natural earthly life end? At the time the Dr. declares it on the medical record? What about when there is no Dr?
In a case that was on the news recently, the patient had been declared brain dead by his physicians, the death certificate recorded, and was hours away from organ donation when the patient began to show signs of recovery. He is now in rehab on the way to full recovery.
R
royal_archer
Guest
It would seem obvious that the hospitals, doctors, nurses,etc, etc, etc, all have profit from their involvement in the transplant. but here are a few examples of the money being brought into the medical industry by transplants.
transplantmanagement.com/professional_services_medicare.htm
tylerpaper.com/article/20080220/OPINION0311/802190340
chfpatients.com/tx/transplant.htm
When a transplant is completed they ring the register to a tune much greater than would be seen allowing a donor to pass on slowly. I don’t know if this is a motivation for those making decisions to transplant but for me I am not sure I want to bet my life that they wouldn’t cut me up to make a buck.
G
graceandglory
Guest
I still think the greater good is that someone who would have died iis now able to live because of an organ transplant. “Greater love has no man, than to lay down his life for his friends.” I think Judas was the recipient of 30 pieces of silver for his part in the death of Jesus. Christ’s death on the cross was far more meritorious in that he purchased the salvation of many by his one death.
I believe heart surgeons and brain surgeons make a lot of money too. Have more faith in people who spend 12 or more years in training to save lives and heal people. “Physician, first do no harm.”
Get to know your own physician, so you can trust who is taking care of you at your moment of death. ***
“Holy Mother, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.”***
H
Holly3278
Guest
Personally, I won’t be an organ donor because of the simple fact that nobody knows exactly when true death really occurs. I don’t want to be put to death prematurely.
R
royal_archer
Guest
Agreed. And I do trust my doctor but do not know if I would trust an emergency room doctor I never met.
G
graceandglory
Guest
If the Church says it’s noble and meritorious, then it is. I think it would be more valuable to sacrifice whatever is left on a monitor of my own vegetative life so that someone else may live and perhaps come into the Kingdom of Heaven.
R
rusty20
Guest
Im’ sure this has already been stated, but I wanted to pseudo-correct you.
Technically, it is illegal for teams of specialists to harvest your organs while still alive. However, they do literally wait til your moment of death, then pull the organs immediately.
The only problem I can see with organ donation would be in the practice, not the principle. It seems that some medical teams would be less adament about treating you if you happen to be an organ donor and have a match for someone. But who knows how often that happens in real world situations.
A
Aleii
Guest
I am having trouble seeing the problem in the links. I see the links talking about managing staff salaries and equipment costs, how less organs are available due to non-payment of donors, and a brief overview of heart transplants.
Are you saying that the extensive team of medical staff should be working for free every time it comes to organ donation? Are you also saying the hospitals should be donating their equiment?
The healthcare system is overwhelmed with patients. We would be more than happy to have less on our plates, because as it is now, we can’t give the type of care we would like to to all of our patients due to overwhelming patient load, chronic understaffing, mandatory overtime, extensive shifts, and high costs of materials and workers (much training is required)
Hospitals already foot the bill on numerous uninsured who come through the ER’s doors. I cared for an uninsured patient who was in a drunken motorcycle accident, in a coma, who required a high degree of monitoring and staff competence to manage all of his tubes and skyrocketing blood pressure, along with preparation for numerous surgeries. I cared for him just the same as I did an insured young man who had been hit by a bus, who required a similar level of care.
I have moved 3 times in the last 8 years, and have seen 3 major hospitals close near me due to losing money.
My main goal getting into healthcare, and, the majority of my coworkers’, is to save lives. We have a strict ethical code that we follow that expressly prohibits hastening a death. My salary would never be affected by a family’s decision not to donate. There are far too many other patients, that, the next one to care for would simply be next. We have a motto to treat each of our patients like our own grandmother/grandfather/brother/sister/child. We are not the cold heartless monsters you seem to portray us as. Thinking of it as a cash register is a pretty sick comparison. We do cry with the family, and we respect their wishes even if it contradicts what we would want for ourselves. It is a gutrenching profession to be that close to death, and burnout rate is extremely high.
And while I would love to donate all my time, you have to realize that we have to feed our families too.
R
royal_archer
Guest
You are right that the hospitals are over burdened and are strained with patients who rack up bills they can not pay. While most care givers do not succom to the financial preasures, I find it plausible that the administrators will consider those preasures and as a result may hire doctors who are “financially responsible”.
M
mom2boyz
Guest
Have you ever watched someone die? Well I have. It took 16 minutes from the time he was taken off the ventilator. During that time he turned quite blue from lack of oxygenation. That means he wasn’t getting oxygen anywhere since he was incapable of breathing on his own. Since he wasn’t moving oxygen his organs were also dying at the moment they weren’t receiving oxygen. He was suffocating and so was his organs. He wasn’t brain dead so he couldn’t donate his organs, but he wasn’t going to recover since he herniated his brain stem. At that point his blood pressure was only controlled by medications and even that was becoming unmanageable. His body was trying to die. He had very much wanted to be an organ donor, but under the circumstances it wasn’t possible. He was able to donate bone, corneas and tissues. It is too bad. He had a healthy heart, lungs, kidneys, and liver. We as his family wished someone could have received those. I don’t recall the tranplant team of professionals doing anything less than trying to help us fulfill his wishes. So if the time comes I fully trust them and they can have whatever organs I can donate. Are there bound to be some unethical medical people in the medical field of transplantation? Of course they are everywhere for that matter. Even in the unfortunate event that I weren’t really as dead as they say, I trust God will use that event for the glory of His kingdom.
C
Charlotte45
Guest
I do not think we should take organs from a person who is alive. “Brain dead” does not mean dead, in fact I have read articles were supposedly “brain dead” people recover. Of course, there are not too many of these people because, if you take someones heart it is a sure thing that they will not survive. I see nothing wrong with a person who is alive donating bone marrow, or a kidney. I do find it hard to reason that it is alright to take any organ even from an organ donor while that person is still alive. My brother was in fact pronounced “Brain dead” and they asked for his organs. I said, no he would be needing them. My Brother did not survive but I do not regret my decision. After he was dead I did not care if they took his organs but they do not want organs from dead people. Amazing. So I think “brain dead” is a term that is made up so they can harvest organs. I also think that if you are of the optimum age between 18 - 25 and you are in an accident and they find you dead at the scene they will revive you in order to convince your family to donate your organs to save the life of some child or someone’s father, mother, sister, or brother. I think the Church needs to come out with a definite answer and stand on this topic. I do not think that scientist and medical professionals who already decide to kill our babies in the womb should be left with the decisions of life and death of anyone.
M
mdgspencer
Guest
Another matter of concern that I have had is that the organs of the person are taken out of their body without an anasthetic. From what I have heard, doctors do use different definitions of death. Can it be that some people’s kidney’s etc are taken out of their bodies when they actually are alive without an anasthetic (or even, though I hope not, in some degree conscious)? Unless this question is resolved in my mind, I won’t be an organ donor. I know others feel differently, But are they right about this or not?
D
distracted
Guest
i am not going to donate an organ because the world hates Catholics (the ones like me who are “out there” about it)… and they might kill me just to get my organs… & get rid of a Catholic at the same time…
am i kidding…?? Hmm… I don’t know… :hypno:
am i kidding…?? Hmm… I don’t know… :hypno:
- Status