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Annie_B
Guest
Is anyone else dizzy from the circles this thread is going in???:whacky:
Annie
Annie
- Status
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Annie_B
Guest
They kept this woman alive with machines in order for possible organ harvesting…Look what happened to her. Hopefully this will make people think twice about letting their organs be harvested before they die… Even if one person is saved before they are harvested, it is enough. It is up to God when we live and when we die.
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357463,00.html
Annie
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357463,00.html
Annie
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bugz2007
Guest
I feel like I’m willing to trust that, if God wants me alive (by miracle, perhaps?), He’ll make that known well before they’ve started cutting out my organs. And I’m OK with that. And giving my life to save another? Hot diggity! Sounds to me like that’s following a path God would not frown upon.
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Just_wondering
Guest
That’s exactly how I feel. I’m sure there are a handful of doctors out there who have taken organs from a patient who might have lived, but what are the chances that’ll happen to me? I’m willing to trust that the doctors that treat me will use their best judgement and whatever appropriate medical technology exists to try to save my life. If they determine that death is imminent, then let my death at least benefit others.
I have signed an organ and tissue donation card (it’s a sticker on my driver’s license). My parents know my wishes. This thread has reminded me to talk about it with my boyfriend before we get married, just so that everyone’s on the same page.
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whatevergirl
Guest
I’m an organ donor. I just hope that they don’t take anything too soon!
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Annie_B
Guest
That is exactly what the problem is; someone has to decide if it is too soon or the right time…I am not willing to trust the doctors to make that decision - or anyone for that matter. When I die - REALLY die (as in no breathing, no heartbeat) they can have whatever they want. Until that time there will be no harvesting from me (or anyone in my family for that matter; they have all removed the organ donor option from their driver’s license’). It all boils down to what a person considers “alive”. Some people do not consider unborn babies - at ANY stage- “alive” and have no problem killing them through abortion. How can we even consider someone “not alive” when they are being KEPT ALIVE by machines???I’m an organ donor. I just hope that they don’t take anything too soon!
Annie
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royal_archer
Guest
I am torn on the issue. There is a major medical industry profiting from the canibalization of human bodies. I wonder what ethical lapses are made in the rush to harvest parts. On the other hand Christ gave us his body and blood to save our lives. It would seem appropriate to pass our bodies on.
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Annie_B
Guest
It is too bad that we cannot decide at exactly what point we “pass our bodies on”. It is ALWAYS another person who ultimately decides this (even if you have it spelled out in a living will etc…). This circumstance leaves us wide open to the discretion of another who may not have OUR best interests at heart. And yes, ethical lapses are made. It just depends on who you talk to. What may be an ethical dilemma to one may not be a problem at all to another.
Annie
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R_McGeddon
Guest
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Annie_B
Guest
People are kept alive by machines all the time. Some are closer to death than others. The point is that the person is ALIVE WHEN THEY ARE HARVESTED!!! When I die (no heartbeat, breathing) “they” can have anything of me they want. If science has not figured out how to use organs from people who have actually died (and you should know from my earlier posts that I do not consider “brain dead” actually dead) then so be it. Until they do they are harvesting from people who are alive - period. Here is a thought too; if someone is being “kept alive” by machines then how can pro-donors say that these people are actually dead? They are only considering brain waves…If brain waves are all that count, then how do you justify the cases where people are considered “brain dead” - no brain waves - and then come to consciousness? What do you think of the woman in the news recently who was “brain dead”, went into rigor, then woke up and is quite alive? They were considering harvesting her too…Life is life at all stages; it is not up to anyone to decide when to end it - that is up to God and God alone.
Annie
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Annie_B
Guest
Ok - here is a question for all those who have posted who are “pro organ donation”.
How many “brain waves” does a newly conceived human being have? We are taught that all abortion is evil - no matter what stage the baby is at. How can we consider others who have no brain waves any less valuable? Each baby is on “life support” until they are born by the mere fact that their mother is keeping them alive. Also, are some brain waves more valuable than others? Will there come a time when science/people start deciding just who’s brain waves are worth saving? Because it is impossible to measure a newly conceived baby’s brain waves, does that give anyone the right to kill it? Legally yes - morally no.
Annie
How many “brain waves” does a newly conceived human being have? We are taught that all abortion is evil - no matter what stage the baby is at. How can we consider others who have no brain waves any less valuable? Each baby is on “life support” until they are born by the mere fact that their mother is keeping them alive. Also, are some brain waves more valuable than others? Will there come a time when science/people start deciding just who’s brain waves are worth saving? Because it is impossible to measure a newly conceived baby’s brain waves, does that give anyone the right to kill it? Legally yes - morally no.
Annie
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R_McGeddon
Guest
If they’re all being kept alive by a machine, they neither closer nor further from death than each other.
No machine, no life.
The point is that they’re not alive! and there’s no need to shout!
Non-viable organs won’t be of any use to anybody, not much of a gift.
It has, if you read up on the subject, you would know this.
Do you have a medical background?
Un-period, your opinion, not fact.
Easy, because to take away the machines is to take away the means by which they’re “kept alive”
I have never heard of such cases.
By objecting to organ donation on your perspective, you are doing exactly that.
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Annie_B
Guest
Medical background or no (and the answer is yes - not that it matters) my answers are still the same. I respectfully disagree with anyone who believes that our life is summed up on whether or not we have brainwaves to prove it. As far as shouting, please do forgive me. It seems as if nobody is listening anyway…
I started this thread and now I am ending it. If anyone chooses to continue, I will not be a part of it.
Annie
I started this thread and now I am ending it. If anyone chooses to continue, I will not be a part of it.
Annie
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JimG
Guest
I’m still pondering this one. As far as I know, a newly conceived human being has no brain waves. At some point during embryogenesis, the nervous system develops to a point where brain activity is shown. Is the embryo ‘brain dead’ before that point? If so, abortion should be ok before that point.
A very few organs can be used from a person after heart-lung death. In most cases, though, they are going to want organs that are still alive. So how is it that my organs are alive and I am not? Is my ‘self’’-- my person, to be identified only with my brain? I don’t think that’s the Catholic position on the human person.
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Kilo1Mike21
Guest
Coma and Persistent Vegetative State
A coma is a profound or deep state of unconsciousness. The affected individual is alive but is not able to react or respond to life around him/her. Coma may occur as an expected progression or complication of an underlying illness, or as a result of an event such as head trauma.
A persistent vegetative state, which sometimes follows a coma, refers to a condition in which individuals have lost cognitive neurological function and awareness of the environment but retain noncognitive function and a perserved sleep-wake cycle.
It is sometimes described as when a person is technically alive, but his/her brain is dead. However, that description is not completely accurate. In persistent vegetative state the individual loses the higher cerebral powers of the brain, but the functions of the brainstem, such as respiration (breathing) and circulation, remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli, but the patient does not speak or obey commands. Patients in a vegetative state may appear somewhat normal. They may occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh.
Is there any treatment?
Once the patient is out of immediate danger, although still in coma or vegetative state, the medical care team will concentrate on preventing infections and maintaining the patient’s physical state as much as possible.
Such maintenance includes preventing pneumonia and bed sores and providing balanced nutrition. Physical therapy may also be used to prevent contractures (permanent muscular contractions) and orthopedic deformities that would limit recovery for the patients who emerge from coma.
What is the prognosis?
The outcome for coma and vegetative state depends on the cause and on the location, severity, and extent of neurological damage: outcomes range from recovery to death. People may emerge from a coma with a combination of physical, intellectual, and psychological difficulties that need special attention.
Recovery usually occurs gradually, with patients acquiring more and more ability to respond. Some patients never progress beyond very basic responses, but many recover full awareness. Patients recovering from coma require close medical supervision. A coma rarely lasts more than 2 to 4 weeks. Some patients may regain a degree of awareness after vegetative state. Others may remain in a vegetative state for years or even decades. The most common cause of death for a person in a vegetative state is infection such as pneumonia.
healthlink.mcw.edu/article/921394859.html
In relation to organ donation and whether someone is alive if they have brainwave activity or not; whether machines are keeping someone alive or not…we, as catholics are taught to help or fellow man as much as we can. Some argue that “one” is able to wake up from a coma or PVS. True, but to what quality of life. If I cease to be “me”, I believe myself to be spiritually dead. I am no longer able to pray, meditate on scripture, pray the rosary, receive communion, seek absolution (although I would probably not be committing a sins knowingly), or just give praise to God. If I cannot do those things, use my organs so someone else may be able to live on to continue to be able to prasie God.
Now another point to bring up. Catholic teaching and DNRs (Do Not Resuscitate), are they in violation?
A coma is a profound or deep state of unconsciousness. The affected individual is alive but is not able to react or respond to life around him/her. Coma may occur as an expected progression or complication of an underlying illness, or as a result of an event such as head trauma.
A persistent vegetative state, which sometimes follows a coma, refers to a condition in which individuals have lost cognitive neurological function and awareness of the environment but retain noncognitive function and a perserved sleep-wake cycle.
It is sometimes described as when a person is technically alive, but his/her brain is dead. However, that description is not completely accurate. In persistent vegetative state the individual loses the higher cerebral powers of the brain, but the functions of the brainstem, such as respiration (breathing) and circulation, remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli, but the patient does not speak or obey commands. Patients in a vegetative state may appear somewhat normal. They may occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh.
Is there any treatment?
Once the patient is out of immediate danger, although still in coma or vegetative state, the medical care team will concentrate on preventing infections and maintaining the patient’s physical state as much as possible.
Such maintenance includes preventing pneumonia and bed sores and providing balanced nutrition. Physical therapy may also be used to prevent contractures (permanent muscular contractions) and orthopedic deformities that would limit recovery for the patients who emerge from coma.
What is the prognosis?
The outcome for coma and vegetative state depends on the cause and on the location, severity, and extent of neurological damage: outcomes range from recovery to death. People may emerge from a coma with a combination of physical, intellectual, and psychological difficulties that need special attention.
Recovery usually occurs gradually, with patients acquiring more and more ability to respond. Some patients never progress beyond very basic responses, but many recover full awareness. Patients recovering from coma require close medical supervision. A coma rarely lasts more than 2 to 4 weeks. Some patients may regain a degree of awareness after vegetative state. Others may remain in a vegetative state for years or even decades. The most common cause of death for a person in a vegetative state is infection such as pneumonia.
healthlink.mcw.edu/article/921394859.html
In relation to organ donation and whether someone is alive if they have brainwave activity or not; whether machines are keeping someone alive or not…we, as catholics are taught to help or fellow man as much as we can. Some argue that “one” is able to wake up from a coma or PVS. True, but to what quality of life. If I cease to be “me”, I believe myself to be spiritually dead. I am no longer able to pray, meditate on scripture, pray the rosary, receive communion, seek absolution (although I would probably not be committing a sins knowingly), or just give praise to God. If I cannot do those things, use my organs so someone else may be able to live on to continue to be able to prasie God.
Now another point to bring up. Catholic teaching and DNRs (Do Not Resuscitate), are they in violation?
J
JimG
Guest
I don’t think DNR’s violate Catholic teaching, provided that they essentially state that one does not wish to have extraordinary treatment provided when there is no hope of recovery. Catholic teaching has always provided that one need pursue only ordinary means.
But I do have problems with defining a person to be dead when most organs are still functioning. In those cases, death is essentially redefined to refer only to the absence of certain brain functions rather than cessation of breathing and heartbeat.
Unborn children before the development of the neural system have no brainwaves. They are unable to pray, meditate on scripture or pray the rosary. Yet we do not arbitrarily define them as dead. Some define them as non-persons, although they cannot define them as non-humans. I fear that changing the definition of death to a functional one may at some point put us all in danger.
K
Kilo1Mike21
Guest
I see your point but a fetus has not yet fully grown, been born, learned about God, learned about life…his/her life is just beginning and thus should never be ended with the exception to the risk of the life of the mother (my opinion).
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Anacharius
Guest
I am an organ donor. I take comfort in thinking that my last act may be to give the gift of life to someone else.
1). Is the person going to receive, going to waste the BAPTIZED Roman Catholic Gift of Life ( the organ that you are donating ) by leading a life that is in direct opposition of being Roman Catholc???
1). Is the person going to receive, going to waste the BAPTIZED Roman Catholic Gift of Life ( the organ that you are donating ) by leading a life that is in direct opposition of being Roman Catholc???
K