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cmforte
Guest
I second that!!
-Chris
Should Catholics support Israel, Palestine, or take a neutral stance?
- Status
I second that!!
-Chris
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cmforte
Guest
I would like that, but make it a democracy with the separation of church and state and give everyone in it freedom of religion, allowing non-Catholic christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and even Hindus for that matter, live, work, worship, and govern there together in peace.I have another idea. How about america stops giving Israel weapons and stuff, and instead we come over and make Palestine a country called āthe Holy Landā. Itāll be a land filled with Christians, favoring Catholics, and be open to many visitors. A very peaceful place. sound fair?
BTW Iām sure there are Jewish christians also.
-Chris
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kitkatty
Guest
I like that Chris, truly a Catholic Christian idea! Also,to those who are concerned about forsaking the Jewish people because of the covenent made with them, are we not dealing in the present with a very secular Israeli state? Any thoughts on this?
I think Israel has a right to exist, certainly, but not every country is morally correct all of the time and I can`t in good conscience support any country when they are in the wrong
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cmforte
Guest
I second that!
But even that statement is considered anti-Semitic by many people. Go figure that one out. 
-Chris
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ciero
Guest
The Zionist state of Isreal has NOTHING to do with biblical prophecy. I find the Jews to be quite hypocritical when it comes to the state of Isreal. To claim that the Palestinian land is theirs after they had not lived there for nearly 1000 years and to confiscate the land of Palestinian Christians who have lived there for generations is hardley the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. I find it discusting that the US government gives so much money and suport to the Zionists. The US is responsible for the de Christianization of the Holy Land. At the rate things are going there will be NO Christians left in the Holy Land in a generation.
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St_Francis
Guest
I took a course in Middle East politics in college, lo these many decades ago, and long before I was anything more than a practical atheist.
And I have always been a supporter of Israel as a result. Not for any religious reasons or anything like that, but just by looking at the facts and results.
However, I do feel that those who are called Palestinians have been used and abused by the Arabs and are in a terrible position. I feel sorry for most of them because they are pawns in power politics there.
And I am not saying that the Israelis have never done anything wrong, hey, even the US has done some things wrong!
So much of what is happening has its roots in the Cold War and a lot of times people donāt understand those issues.
So basically I think that Catholics and everyone else should read about what happened from both points of view and make up their own minds.
And I have always been a supporter of Israel as a result. Not for any religious reasons or anything like that, but just by looking at the facts and results.
However, I do feel that those who are called Palestinians have been used and abused by the Arabs and are in a terrible position. I feel sorry for most of them because they are pawns in power politics there.
And I am not saying that the Israelis have never done anything wrong, hey, even the US has done some things wrong!
So much of what is happening has its roots in the Cold War and a lot of times people donāt understand those issues.
So basically I think that Catholics and everyone else should read about what happened from both points of view and make up their own minds.
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ChadS
Guest
The Jewish origins of our faith have nothing to do with the modern state of Israel. Nor as a Catholic do we have to be an apologist for Israeli actions towards Palestinians. Being a good Catholic and recognizing our Jewish roots does not mean we have to follow blindly all of Israelās policies.
ChadS
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Wardog
Guest
As a Catholic I support Israel as the only country in the Middle East where I can worship freely and legally.
As an American, I support Israel as the only working democracy in the Middle East.
Even when I disagree with specific policies, I support the right of Israel to exist.
As an American, I support Israel as the only working democracy in the Middle East.
Even when I disagree with specific policies, I support the right of Israel to exist.
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ciero
Guest
It is just as legal (even more so actually ) for Christians to worship in the Palestinian territories as in Zionist āIsraelā! Zionist āIsraelā is hardly democratic, ask any non Jew who lives there. If your not a Jew you have few rights.
Why do you think the US is so supportive of The Israelie state?
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Wardog
Guest
I went to look up Christians in Palenstine and Israel on the Internet. I could not find an unbiased account, so the reports were on the extremes on both sides, with no middle ground except that each side went out of their way why the other side was worse.
So I can only go with the facts that I can determine myself;
- Israel was attacked 3 times: 1948, 1967, 1972. each time they not only beat back the attackers, but gained more territory. Most of which (Sinai Penninsula) was returned.
- There is no good reason why the Palestinians are still called refugees, except that none of the Arab countries (Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia) wanted to take them in; it was preferred to keep them in Palestine for political reasons.
- The consitution of Palestine explicitly calls out for the extinction of Israel; many of their badges show Palestine occupying the borders of Israel. The peace talks continue to break down because the palestine leaders cannot drop this demand; I find it hard to require Israel to negotiate in blind faith with an enemy dedicated to the destruction of every Jew.
- When I was last in Israel in the early 90s, I went to a kibbutz near the border of Lebanon. The week earlier they had been under rocket attack from across the border. They said it was a routine event, which according to news reports continues along the Israeli border today.
- Israel is a Democracy with a capital D. I canāt testify to what you said about being a non-Jew in Israel. I can testify that in the last 60 years since the founding of Israel the government has peacefully changed hands thru elections. No other country in the Middle East can say the same thing,
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St_Francis
Guest
Can you support your assertion that non-Jews in Israel lack rights? It is my understanding that non-Jews in Israel enjoy all the same civil rights as Jews, such as voting, etc., and that there are even non-Jews in The Knesset and on the Supreme Court. And they do not have the compulsory military service that the Jewish citizens have.
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GEddie
Guest
Actually, there are many non-Jews who are Israeli citizens, both Christian and Muslim (as well as others) and they have citizen rights.
The Palestinians, as a group, do not have Israeli citizenship. Every country denies various rights to those who are not itās citizens.
The USA supports the Israeli state because itās the only semi-democracy in the region.
And sure, you can worship in the Palestine territories, because they are territories administered by Israel, which has bent over backward to protect freedom of religion for everybody. Once the Muslim state of Palestine is proclaimed, I hope those freedoms would remain, but Iām not optimistic.
ICXC NIKA
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colmywaykurtz
Guest
But the Palestinian entity treats ITS Christians much worse. They get killed and have their livelihoods destroyed. Conditions for the Palestinian Christians are almost as bad there as in Saudi Arabia.
Christians and western governments ideally should strive for a negotiated peace with fairness to both sides.
But Catholics, specifically, should keep in the back of their minds that numerous privately-received prophecies (received by Catholics) approved by the Magisterium hint that the struggle over the Holy Land will play a key role in provoking the upheavals that lead first to the Millennium and second to the physical return of Christ.
This should be leavening to the unbridled optimism of some political types who think this can all be inevitably solved.
J
Julian0404
Guest
Your right Chad we do not have to follow blindly all of Isreals policies - which was never my point.
My point . . . . . is that Isreal is under GODās covenant protection and we should not stand against GOD and all of HIS policies.
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PJM
Guest
We should support Israel IMO:thumbsup:
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Ridgerunner
Guest
While I support Israel in the current struggle, I also support āPalestineā, but in the following way.
āPalestineā is not a state and has never been one. It is a name traditionally given to what is now Israel, the West Bank and Jordan. Most āPalestiniansā live in Jordan, and most Jordanians are āPalestiniansā but āPalestinianā is a tribal designation, not a national one. Most of the people in āPalestineā outside Jordan are Israelis.
It is my belief that the Levant generally could be a very prosperous place. Well located, a talented and vibrant people. But it isnāt, outside Israel, and why? Precisely because there are Islamist and criminal entities that donāt want it to be. As an economic entity, the whole area could do very well, but economic integration with Israel canāt happen because Islamist and criminal entities have their own agendas that do not take into account the actual welfare of āPalestiniansā. The ONLY state that welcomes Palestinians with open arms is Jordan, and Jordan fights for its life against radical entities daily.
What do āPalestiniansā really want? Well, despite the propaganda, I believe they want jobs that pay decently, the ability to raise families, the ability to do business freely with whoever has the money or product to do business with.
The best pay Palestinians get is in Israel, and a good number of them work there. But it canāt be freely done because of the terrorist risk, so itās limited. The best business deals for Palestinians are with Israelis because Israelis are incredibly innovative and have good products and services. But that has to be limited too, for the same reason.
Gazans used to work in Israel too, but they canāt now because Gaza is a colony of Iran, just as Lebanon is a virtual colony of Iran.
āPalestineā is going to be a war zone instead of the most prosperous place in the Middle East until Islamism recedes, Iran is ousted from the Levant and the criminal gangs are hunted down and imprisoned.
One should not hold oneās breath.
āPalestineā is not a state and has never been one. It is a name traditionally given to what is now Israel, the West Bank and Jordan. Most āPalestiniansā live in Jordan, and most Jordanians are āPalestiniansā but āPalestinianā is a tribal designation, not a national one. Most of the people in āPalestineā outside Jordan are Israelis.
It is my belief that the Levant generally could be a very prosperous place. Well located, a talented and vibrant people. But it isnāt, outside Israel, and why? Precisely because there are Islamist and criminal entities that donāt want it to be. As an economic entity, the whole area could do very well, but economic integration with Israel canāt happen because Islamist and criminal entities have their own agendas that do not take into account the actual welfare of āPalestiniansā. The ONLY state that welcomes Palestinians with open arms is Jordan, and Jordan fights for its life against radical entities daily.
What do āPalestiniansā really want? Well, despite the propaganda, I believe they want jobs that pay decently, the ability to raise families, the ability to do business freely with whoever has the money or product to do business with.
The best pay Palestinians get is in Israel, and a good number of them work there. But it canāt be freely done because of the terrorist risk, so itās limited. The best business deals for Palestinians are with Israelis because Israelis are incredibly innovative and have good products and services. But that has to be limited too, for the same reason.
Gazans used to work in Israel too, but they canāt now because Gaza is a colony of Iran, just as Lebanon is a virtual colony of Iran.
āPalestineā is going to be a war zone instead of the most prosperous place in the Middle East until Islamism recedes, Iran is ousted from the Levant and the criminal gangs are hunted down and imprisoned.
One should not hold oneās breath.
J
Jaypeeto4
Guest
The claim that non-Jews have no rights in Israel
is a diabolical and obscene LIE.
There are millions of Arab Citizens of Israel, and they enjoy
full legal and civil rights, including the right to vote and to
petition for redress, freedom of speech, worship and assembly.
To claim otherwise is, quite frankly, a purely satanic LIBEL,
deeply rooted in disgusting antiSemitism.
Israel is under constant violent attack from radical fanatics,
7 days a week, 365 days a year, and still it maintains itās freedoms
and democratic values. No other nation would put up with
the evil treatment that Israel puts up with.
Long live Israel. Long live the Jewish State.
Long live an UNdivided Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel.
Jaypeeto4
is a diabolical and obscene LIE.
There are millions of Arab Citizens of Israel, and they enjoy
full legal and civil rights, including the right to vote and to
petition for redress, freedom of speech, worship and assembly.
To claim otherwise is, quite frankly, a purely satanic LIBEL,
deeply rooted in disgusting antiSemitism.
Israel is under constant violent attack from radical fanatics,
7 days a week, 365 days a year, and still it maintains itās freedoms
and democratic values. No other nation would put up with
the evil treatment that Israel puts up with.
Long live Israel. Long live the Jewish State.
Long live an UNdivided Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel.
Jaypeeto4
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trdchubi
Guest
āWe know that God gave Israel the land but there is no mention of his taking it back again forever. Can we Christians exclude that what is happening in our day, that is, the return of Israel to the land of its fathers, is not connected in some way, still a mystery to us, to this providential order which concerns the chosen people and which is carried out even through human error and excess as happens in the Church itself? If Israel is to enter the New Covenant one day, St. Paul tells us that they will not do so a few at a time but as an entire nation, as ever-living ārootsā.** But if Israel is to enter as a nation, it must be a nation, it must have a land of its own, an organization and a voice in the midst of other nations of the earth. The fact that Israel has remained an ethnic unity throughout the centuries and throughout many historical upheavals is, in itself, a sign of a destiny that has not been interrupted but is waiting to be fulfilled.**ā (Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, from Christ, the Glory of Israel)
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
Well, personally I like how they did it in the Middle Ages with the church and state in close relations - the state doing things in favor of the church. But thatās just me. Freedom of religion is good too.
Joey.
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ciero
Guest
My question to you is thisā¦why is Israel there in the first place? Palestine was a peaceful country prior to 1948 when the Zionist Jews came marching in. They took over peoples homes and lands expelling them and claimed the land for themselves. What obligation does Syria, Jordan or Egypt have for the Palestinians? If the US was taken over by the Russians and expelled Americans would Mexico and Canada have an obligation to take us in? My big problem is Israel has NO business there in the first place. It was all Palestine prior to 1948 and should be returned to the Palestinans!
The Jews were offered land elsewhereā¦North Africa to be exactā¦but they demanded Palestineā¦they deserve no sympathy or aid from the USā¦none whatsoever!
Free Palestine!!!
The Jews were offered land elsewhereā¦North Africa to be exactā¦but they demanded Palestineā¦they deserve no sympathy or aid from the USā¦none whatsoever!
Free Palestine!!!
- Status