Should Catholics support new laws on banning certain fashions?

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Melek

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I’m a young man and it’s very tempting for me to go home and masturbate whenever I see a woman dressed provocatively. Fashion these days reveals so much on women. The winter time used to be safe but even that has turned into a time of temptation with all the tight yoga pants young women are wearing these days.

Should Catholics support new laws to not allow certain fashions that are distracting? Many of my Muslim friends who are from countries such as Pakistan agree with me on this.
 
Personally, I would argue that no, we should not fight for laws that would ban or restrict certain fashions. It is clear that much of our society needs a sincere lesson in modesty, but I am hesitant to think that force is the best approach.
 
I’m a young man and it’s very tempting for me to go home and masturbate whenever I see a woman dressed provocatively. Fashion these days reveals so much on women. The winter time used to be safe but even that has turned into a time of temptation with all the tight yoga pants young women are wearing these days.

Should Catholics support new laws to not allow certain fashions that are distracting? Many of my Muslim friends who are from countries such as Pakistan agree with me on this.
No
 
Should we also allow public banners with nude women?
…no. Not in a sexual manner, anyhow. But to be fair, there are public images with nude women on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Not all nudity equates lust and sin.
 
…no. Not in a sexual manner, anyhow. But to be fair, there are public images with nude women on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Not all nudity equates lust and sin.
Let’s not lie to ourselves. The fashion industry is trying to make women look sexually provocative just like porn. There is no reason to reveal so much skin or have clothes that are so tight they clearly show the curvature of a woman’s entire body. This is trouble for many men trying to practice chastity.
 
Let’s not lie to ourselves. The fashion industry is trying to make women look sexually provocative just like porn. There is no reason to reveal so much skin or have clothes that are so tight they clearly show the curvature of a woman’s entire body. This is trouble for many men trying to practice chastity.
I agree with you.

I do not agree that there should be a law regarding this.
 
How would you want those laws enforced? Fines? Jail time? Public square beatings? Laws against certain ways of dressing would end in tears for almost everyone involved, all because you couldn’t stop yourself from masturbating.
 
Melek,

I am a male North American who lived in a Muslim country for several years. The idea that women covering themselves reduces the lust of the men surrounding them is completely false. This muslim country has men that are hyper sexualized and frustrated, even more so than North America. They treat the women in the street who are covered or uncovered as objects. This is in an environment of women being covered head to toe!

Get a grip on your thought life and look to change yourself, before you go legislating the behaviour of others. I am sure you can find numerous verses from the New Testament of Jesus’ words that support that.
 
How would you want those laws enforced? Fines? Jail time? Public square beatings? Laws against certain ways of dressing would end in tears for almost everyone involved, all because you couldn’t stop yourself from masturbating.
This is not just about helping people to stop masturbating. It is immoral to dress provocatively. I think a fine will do good for one time offenders however I’m open to giving jail time to offenders who have broken the law for that three times.
 
I’m a young man and it’s very tempting for me to go home and masturbate whenever I see a woman dressed provocatively. Fashion these days reveals so much on women. The winter time used to be safe but even that has turned into a time of temptation with all the tight yoga pants young women are wearing these days.

Should Catholics support new laws to not allow certain fashions that are distracting? Many of my Muslim friends who are from countries such as Pakistan agree with me on this.

No.
 
As a prudential matter, it would be impossible to enforce.

As a prudential matter, it would do more harm than good: women don’t put on yoga pants specifically to arouse men (usually), but to get a certain freedom of movement that other clothes don’t allow. Banning certain fashions would eliminate that good. It might eliminate one source of temptation for men, but, let’s be real – a man who can’t control himself in the face of yoga pants is not going to be able to control himself in the face of regular, day-to-day conversation with attractive women… to say nothing of the universe of free internet porn in which we now irreversibly live.

As a prudential matter, it would be impossible to pass, and merely associating ourselves with it would be quite devastating in our present political climate.

As a prudential matter, it seems to me that these laws suggest to women that they are at fault for men’s bad behaviour, and therefore cultures that live under these laws suffer greater violence against women and judicial cultures that make that violence more acceptable even in courts of law. This law might conceivably reduce masturbation rates (though I doubt it), but at the same time could cause rape rates to shoot up. (The Muslim countries your friends live in are proof enough of that – sharia may be fair in theory, but, in practice, it executes extreme injustices on women throughout the Middle East, especially in rape cases).

As a matter of justice, it would not be fair: taking away a woman’s freedom because of men’s lack of virtue is not assigning the duty to avoid sin where it properly belongs – with the man who commissions the sin, rather than with the woman who (may accidentally) trigger a certain temptation towards it. This, to me, is the most serious problem with it.

I am not willing to say that such a law is inherently evil, but I am saying that such laws are foolish, ill-advised, ineffective, unenforceable, unintentionally injurious, and very probably unjust.
 
I’m open to praying for them, and having hope that they’ll one day find a way to exist in the world without putting themselves out there as objects, rather than human beings.

I am against clogging up or already crowded judicial system with court cases that are aimed at helping people like you, who cannot seem to handle their own sins without blaming others for them. I’m against throwing someone in jail in an already overcrowded prison system for those same reasons. Take responsibility for your own sins, before picking apart the sins of others.
 
This is not just about helping people to stop masturbating. It is immoral to dress provocatively. I think a fine will do good for one time offenders however I’m open to giving jail time to offenders who have broken the law for that three times.
That is not my point. My point is that it has no positive effect, I have experienced it first hand. I would even venture to say that this outward focus on the behaviour of others and not yourself will have a net increase in the objectification of women.

It is the same thing a Mullah would say in a village that justifies honour killings.

Jail time? Are you serious? This sounds like a total troll. Go follow St. Anthony’s example and go to the desert and fight your own demons. Then come back after you are pure of heart. That would be a journey, an inner journey, worth exploring
 
As a prudential matter, it would be impossible to enforce.

As a prudential matter, it would do more harm than good: women don’t put on yoga pants specifically to arouse men (usually), but to get a certain freedom of movement that other clothes don’t allow. .
Could you explain this further? I remember that 10 years ago, these yoga-type pants weren’t so ridiculously tight that a woman’s curvature was outlined perfectly. What freedom of movement do these super tight yoga pants offer? (which I doubt are as comfortable as older styles of yoga pants.)
 
Should we also allow public banners with nude women?
Melek, it is obvious that you are either in your teens or early twenties and are the victim of raging hormones. Once you find the girl/woman of your dreams and she reciprocates your feelings, this visual excitement will fade. You need to become a bit more mature and exercise some self discipline.
However, it is never wise to espouse criminalization of fashions or of morality, because those who are affected by those laws can easily turn on you and your beliefs and outlaw them.
By outlawing such things as certain womans fashions, you are just making them more attractive to those who exploit such things.
Case in point: laws prohibiting alcohol resulted in one of the greatest periods of debauchery in the United States, and laws against pornography have resulted in a public not only getting rid of these laws, but the rampant promulgation of porn in the history of Western Society.
There is an old adage that has merit here: “Never, ever kick a sleeping dog.”
 
That is not my point. My point is that it has no positive effect, I have experienced it first hand. I would even venture to say that this outward focus on the behaviour of others and not yourself will have a net increase in the objectification of women.

It is the same thing a Mullah would say in a village that justifies honour killings.

Jail time? Are you serious? This sounds like a total troll. Go follow St. Anthony’s example and go to the desert and fight your own demons. Then come back after you are pure of heart. That would be a journey, an inner journey, worth exploring
You’re assuming I want to turn America into Saudi Arabia. That is not true! I’m just disturbed that fashion today is so much more provocative than it was in say the 90s. It’s only going to get worse too! We are on a dangerous path my brothers and sisters. The fashion industry is destroying our morality! Satan is controlling the fashion industry.
 
Satan is the Prince of this World, you are right.

I don’t think you want to turn your country into Saudi Arabia. You are missing the point entirely.

Be disturbed that fashion today is so much more provocative. That is good. I affirm your frustration. Obsessing over what women wear is just being a tiny cog in the machinery that you are frustrated with.Trying to control others with legislation is not the path our Lord set forth for us. Dress yourself modestly. Control your media intake. Don’t masturbate. Pray for those who disturb you.

Seek purity instead of creating a laundry list of new rules.
 
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