Should Catholics who use contraception remain in the Church?

[Coder]

Jesus asks us if he will find faith when He returns? Certainly the lack of regard for Church teachings by some is a cross for others who embrace the light of these teachings. It is a cause of suffering and it is an offense to our faith. So we must ask ourselves: Do we have faith in Jesus Christ? If the answer is yes, then rejoice! Don’t you see? This is what faith is all about. Jesus knows that those who seek light can be among darkness. He tells us to rejoice! So that is what we shall do! While we are at it we shall pray for others and be grateful for His mercy for our own failings.

Jesus carried His cross through the darkness. We carry our cross of obedience to the Church through this darkness of dissent and culture of immorality. Glory to God! Don’t underestimate the power of obedience to the Church. The position of darkness is weak underneath the facade.

Also, it doesn’t hurt to speak up for the truth at opportune times. In the meantime, obey and enjoy the love of Jesus like little children!

 

[Jermosh]

Yes they should. Also using contraception is not an automatic mortal sin.

 

[LilyM]

Yes they should. Also using contraception is not an automatic mortal sin.

Using artificial contraception IS a grave sin in all circumstances. Church teaching that it is a grave sin is very clear, so most Catholics know this.

If they choose to use it anyway (and it’s not like most of people have someone with a gun to their head forcing them to swallow that pill each day or use that condom) then yes, they ARE in mortal sin.

 

[Wowbagger]

Sinners should remain in the Church. Unrepentant sinners…? Worse, unrepentent sinners who then claim to be Catholic and give scandal to the Church? Worse, unrepentent, scandalous sinners who commit sacrilege on a weekly basis by continuing to take of the Blessed Sacrament?

Look, I’m a sinner, too, and a fairly notorious one. So it is without malice towards the contraceptors that I say that I think it’d be better for everyone if they acknowledged that their hearts were no longer Catholic, packed up, and left for greener pastures. Only once they’ve done that are we going to be able to begin in earnest the hard work of reconverting them. Just my opinion, and not an overly strong one, either.

And, yes, this would cause global financial calamity for the Church. But we’d only need 3% of the monies we currently receive for the 3% of Catholics who’d still be attending Mass. We’d have to consolidate, but it’s not like the Church would suddenly cease serving the needs of faithful Catholics.

 

[Middleman]

I’ll bet that people with large families are less able to give large amounts of money to the Church. Most of them struggle to make ends meet. I suspect that people who have fewer children have more disposable income.

 

[diggerdomer]

1782 is in the section regarding judgments of conscience. 1783 is from the following section regarding formation of conscience.
This section states that if we are to use our conscience for moral judgments, our conscience must be properly formed.

In a later section regarding erroneous judgment:
This clearly says that we are to follow our conscience, but that we can err by doing so if our conscience is in ignorance.

This clearly states that if we do not do everything we can to properly form our conscience, we can indeed sin by following it.

In summary:

If our conscience is properly formed, we cannot sin by following it.

If our conscience is not properly formed through no fault of our own, our culpability for following an erroneous judgment of our conscience would be greatly reduced (possibly to zero).

If, however, our conscience is not properly formed through our own fault, we are culpable for the evil we may commit by following an erroneous judgment of conscience in addition to the sin of not trying to grow spiritually.

Therefore, the following statement is not accurate:

All boldfaced emphasis mine. Source for CCC quotes: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P5Z.HTM

Yes. I think you’re misunderstanding what I was trying to say by my brief statement. And, more importantly perhaps, what I was not saying.

I simply said the Church teaches that everyone has to follow their conscience. I stand by that as the Catechism notes.

I was not saying there is no responsibility to have a formed conscience, and that the Church should be the source of that formation.

I was **not ** saying that following one’s conscience means that what you do is right or good.

I was **not ** saying that following one’s conscience means that what you are not potentially doing something sinful.

Does that help convey what I meant, and didn’t mean, by my admittedly short statement?

Thanks for your thoughtful response, I appreciate the time you put into the response and the kind way you presented your thoughts (not everyone sticks to the issue without stating or implying personal attacks on posters they disagree with or don’t understand).

 

[Caesar517]

Does that help convey what I meant, and didn’t mean, by my admittedly short statement?

Yes it does, thanks for clarifying.

Thanks for your thoughtful response, I appreciate the time you put into the response and the kind way you presented your thoughts (not everyone sticks to the issue without stating or implying personal attacks on posters they disagree with or don’t understand).

 

[Jermosh]

Using artificial contraception IS a grave sin in all circumstances. Church teaching that it is a grave sin is very clear, so most Catholics know this.

If they choose to use it anyway (and it’s not like most of people have someone with a gun to their head forcing them to swallow that pill each day or use that condom) then yes, they ARE in mortal sin.

You are forgetting the Mortal sin formula. It has to be a grave sin, they must believe its a grave sin, and they must do it willingly. So if a spouse forces them to use it, or if they are using it because they are suffering from a ailment that is affecting their mental status, or if they are using it for medical reasons, then its not a mortal sin. Its also about Intent, NFP can be a mortal sin just as much as using a condom if used in the wrong intent.

The Church also only defines using condoms as a grave sin in the act of contraceptive, there is no definite reasoning behind its use as a personal protection device.

 

[Jermosh]

I’ll bet that people with large families are less able to give large amounts of money to the Church. Most of them struggle to make ends meet. I suspect that people who have fewer children have more disposable income.

Depends, some large families are more frugal with money and have larger savings accounts. Also money is not the only form of tithing the Church needs, sweat is always needed.

 

[Wowbagger]

You are forgetting the Mortal sin formula. It has to be a grave sin, they must believe its a grave sin, and they must do it willingly.

Well, they have to know that it’s a grave sin. If their hearts are hardened against accepting that, well… I’ll let the CCC speak to that: “Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.” (CCC 1859)

I leave the rest of your post to the side, because I am going to go eat some late-night noodles. Yum.

 

[blackst]

Yes, but did Jesus say go on sinning? No, who do you recieve at mass, if we say we are a hospital then we should be healing not prolonging, suffering and slavery which is what sin is slavery. What makes us Catholic is not saying that your Catholic or going to a Catholic school no more than swimming makes you a fish, they are already outside of the church and her grace no longer covers them.

Truth, have you read the words of Christ?

 

[blackst]

You are forgetting the Mortal sin formula. It has to be a grave sin, they must believe its a grave sin, and they must do it willingly. So if a spouse forces them to use it, or if they are using it because they are suffering from a ailment that is affecting their mental status, or if they are using it for medical reasons, then its not a mortal sin. Its also about Intent, NFP can be a mortal sin just as much as using a condom if used in the wrong intent.

The Church also only defines using condoms as a grave sin in the act of contraceptive, there is no definite reasoning behind its use as a personal protection device.

It’s not believe that it’s a grave sin, but knowledge that it’s a grave sin.

 

[blackst]

Paul VI was he talking ex cathedra when he wrote humane vitale?

What should a husband or wife do if they are sterile, refrain from intercourse?

What should the wife who has pasted menopause do?

 

[LilyM]

Paul VI was he talking ex cathedra when he wrote humane vitale?

What should a husband or wife do if they are sterile, refrain from intercourse?

What should the wife who has pasted menopause do?

The DOCUMENT Humanae Vitae, to my understanding, is not ex cathedra, but the TEACHING that artificial contraception is wrong IS infallible teaching.

Couples can use methods that are not artificial, if they have serious reason to do so. There different methods that use the woman’s own bodily cues (temperature and other signs) to determine her fertile times, during which you can avoid sex. You can even use store-bought fertility tests (similar to pregnancy tests, but instead tell a woman if she’s fertile or not) and plan your sex around that.

Husbands and wives who are sterile or past menopause are free to continue having sex - for one, God saw fit to grant the gift of children to Abraham and Sarah, Zachariah and Elizabeth and others who had previously been old or barren, so clearly he doesn’t object.

For two, He naturally creates women with infertile times each month, but naturally makes them capable of sex even at their infertile times - unlike most other animals, who usually can ONLY have sex when the female is fertile.

 

[rayne89]

If the Church took the steps to remind the parishioners of their Catholic duties and what are common mortal sins, it would certainly keep a lot of people away, that would hurt the bottom line.

That is likely why you’ll never here a priest tell the congregation that it is a mortal sin to miss weekly mass, or that masturbation is a mortal sin, contraception a mortal sin, taking Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin, going to confession at least once a year etc…

It is in the Church’s best interest to maintain the status quo, to keep the flock ignorant of the true teachings, for it is essential to keep the coffers full.

We hear all if these things regularly at the homilies at our parish. Our parish is quite large.

 

[rayne89]

In the "olden days " Catholic families had as many kids as possible. Today, families are content with their 2 or 3 children.

That’s called a clue that artificial birth control is being used by many.

I have one child, am perfectly fertile and do not use artificial birth control, haven’t for 12 years. I use NFP, which is inline with church teaching because I have a life threatening health condition.

 

[Jermosh]

It’s not believe that it’s a grave sin, but knowledge that it’s a grave sin.

No thats actually not correct.

**1860 **Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm

It is in fact up to their conscience, which means they must believe it to be a grave sin. Add to this other stresses they may have in a marriage can add pressure and further diminish culpabilty.

 

[baylee]

No thats actually not correct.

**1860 **Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm

It is in fact up to their conscience, which means they must believe it to be a grave sin. Add to this other stresses they may have in a marriage can add pressure and further diminish culpabilty.

I happen to think that this is a paragraph from the Catechism that is oftentimes overlooked. I think that this paragraph (especially the part I bolded) could diminish the gravity of many a sin…especially those of a sexual nature. It should give those that have difficulties with those sins some cause for comfort. I’m not saying they should become complacent in their situation, but they should not become overly anxious/scrupulous about it.

 

[kage_ar]

CCC 1782: Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. “He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.”

I agree the formation of conscience is essential. Just note that in the above para and following, the CCC refers simply to “conscience.”

Read it in context:

[1782](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1782.htm’) Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."53

[1783](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1783.htm’) Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

[1784](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1784.htm’) The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.
[1785](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1785.htm’) In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55

 

[kage_ar]

True teachings for Catholics.

sheesh

So, if truth is relative - how is it truth?