Should Children Go To The "Quite Mass"?

[Jimdandy]

You children are always welcome at Mass.

Why was that Sister meditating at Mass instead of praying the Mass?

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Keep bringing your child to Mass! Little children do not distract me in Mass unless the mother is openly neglectful. How are children ever supposed to learn how to behave in church if they are kept away? I find it refreshing to see parents who bring their children into the church instead of stuffing them in specialized play or cry rooms.

The only person being selfish was the nun.

I guess we are all different…little children crying distracts me quite a lot. I feel that the Priest has to say “it’s okay” otherwise who knows how much negative attention he would get.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I think it is wonderful when children are at Mass with their parents. Jesus said to bring the children to me and do not hinder them.

God bless.

 

[mcmitton]

“Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, all ye lands …”

Most of our loud unhappy babes are taken just outside the nave where a speaker is installed, and glass separates the narthex from the nave. But if they stay, I just pray more fervently.

Who among us was not once a babe? an unhappy babe? Jesus loves the children. And we are all his children, no matter whether happy or sad, old or young.

 

[puzzleannie]

I h
Her response was then that I should consider that the devil is making my daughter act in such a way to disrupt the mass. So I responded with maybe the devil is tempting you in such a way to discourage me from bringing my children to mass to prevent them from getting graces they need to become saints.
She said then that the way my daughter was acting was abnormal… I interrupted her right there and said “How many 2yr olds have you been around? If my 13yr old and my 6yr old can meditate through mass I am sure you are capable of doing it also.”
She then stormed off.
I am so upset with myself because I did not handle that as well as I should have.
I immediately asked father if I should leave Bernadette at home and he said absolutely not.

Am I being selfish and father being too polite to tell me otherwise? Is this nun right?
When I was arguing I was so sure of myself, now I am not sure. I would love to hear your opinions.

well I am sure most of us parents are silently saying “You go, girl.” I assume and hope the nun was elderly and like many of us old folks has lost the capacity to know what and when to speak appropriately. She is of course entirely in the wrong. If you can find a sitter, and it helps YOU get through the morning easier, you can leave your youngest until she grows out of this phase, which is entirely typical of the terrible 2s. If not, bring her. Since in the typical Mass it is the choir which refuses to give us any quiet time after communion, the teens with cell phones and the adults constantly chattering with each other that prevent more than 5 seconds meditation anyhow, I doubt most people attend Mass anymore expecting meditation in any case.

You all know my opinion. A Church that has as a core teaching that parents must welcome the children God sends them has to be welcoming of children at all times and places, especially in the church itself.

 

[creole54]

Well, I’m glad I read this thread this morning, because I’m one of those ‘old people’ who frequently gets annoyed with unruly children at Mass. Crying babies don’t bother me, but unruly preschoolers jumping on the pew in front of me while I’m trying to pray are a distraction to me.

There have been many good, useful points made here that I will try to take with me next Sunday. Maybe instead of praying for the child to be quiet I should pray for patience and give thanks that the Church has a future, as one poster put it.

 

[zab]

I have 4 beautiful children 13, 6, 4, and 2. My youngest Bernadette is a admittedly a handful. Tantrums, kicking, biting, smacking, screaming, etc. She has made huge strides though lately since I have been punishing her with a 3min nose on the wall.
My whole family loves the Tridentine Mass but we only have one mass time and one location. The next closest location is over 1hr away. We also do not have a crying room. We have a vestibule but there is not speaker in the back so I can not hear. A lot of the time my husband was to work on Sundays and I have to take my children all by myself so when I go I always sit in the back for those mad dashes to the vestibule while I watch my other children through a tall glass door.
Today a nun told me today I was being selfish because I wanted to bring my daughter for the graces one gets from mass meanwhile everyone else including the priest can not meditate. I noticed that this nun was by herself sitting in the back of the church right across from us. I suggested that maybe she should try sitting in the front of the church because others say up front they hardly hear her.
Her response was then that I should consider that the devil is making my daughter act in such a way to disrupt the mass. So I responded with maybe the devil is tempting you in such a way to discourage me from bringing my children to mass to prevent them from getting graces they need to become saints.
She said then that the way my daughter was acting was abnormal… I interrupted her right there and said “How many 2yr olds have you been around? If my 13yr old and my 6yr old can meditate through mass I am sure you are capable of doing it also.”
She then stormed off.
I am so upset with myself because I did not handle that as well as I should have.
I immediately asked father if I should leave Bernadette at home and he said absolutely not.

Am I being selfish and father being too polite to tell me otherwise? Is this nun right?
When I was arguing I was so sure of myself, now I am not sure. I would love to hear your opinions.

Laura,
I can empathize with you. Any parent with several children knows that each child is different. We may have had a less difficult time with some of our children than others. But one thing we should get straight is that two year olds are not bad children. They are learning and young children often test their limits. They can be a handful. And neither are their parents bad because they have to learn how to raise them or struggle to control them. It is so easy to be a pew sitter referee and think we know how to better handle the situation.
I would like to tell you that you were right in how you handled the confrontation with the nun. Not only were you struggling with your children, but you were also having to deal with unwelcome remarks from a nun. So it is understandable that you would be offended. What you wrote sounded good to me and I want to say, “Hurray for you!” But in reality, how you handled it is really a matter for your conscience.
God bless you for bringing your children to Mass. Keep up the good work.

 

[barb_finnegan]

I’m sure the OP meant to say, ‘QUIET MASS’?

At the TLM chapel I go to on Sundays, there is one family that has five children under the age of ten (and another on the way). When the younger boy and girl start to ‘act up’ during Mass, either the father or the mother takes them out in the tiny vestibule (separated only by two swinging wooden doors) and gives them a few smacks on the behind to make them behave. Of course everyone hears the kids yowling afterward, but then they [usually] are quiet when they are brought back into the church for the rest of Mass.

Yesterday, right after the priest finished the Litany of Loreto following Mass, I heard the youngest daughter ask her mother out loud, ‘Are we done yet?’ [good timing, kid! ] I heard a slight ripple of laughter from some of the congregation, and I grinned to myself in front…I thought it was pretty funny!

 

[Stavros]

I go to an FSSP parish that is crawling with little ones, and I saw the absolute coolest thing ever a couple of weeks ago. There was a small girl, maybe 2 or 3, who was getting very fidgety during a late night mass before an all-night adoration in a very hot and crowded chapel. When her and her family got there (who were so big they took up two of the tiny pews), one of her older siblings stopped her, and pushed down on her shoulders to get her to remember to genuflect before she entered the pew.

During the mass, she went back and forth between the two small pews. And every single time she went from one pew to the other she turned, stopped, and genuflected reverently.

Was her motion disruptive? Yes, a little. But it was also a huge lesson in humility for me, and I am so thankful for that family, and that little girl.

My point with this story is that we can all learn from little children. Also, during Sunday Mass, I sit as close to the front as I can, so that there are less distractions from the children in attendance. But I also go to Daily Mass, and make time every day to sit in a quiet place (eiter in front of the tabernacle after mass, or at home in my room) to simply talk to God. Your child being noisy during mass does not mean that she cannot accomplish her goal of talking to God. She just can’t do it in that very moment. And honestly, that falls under the category of ‘Her Problem’.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

I have 4 beautiful children 13, 6, 4, and 2. My youngest Bernadette is a admittedly a handful. Tantrums, kicking, biting, smacking, screaming, etc. She has made huge strides though lately since I have been punishing her with a 3min nose on the wall.
My whole family loves the Tridentine Mass but we only have one mass time and one location. The next closest location is over 1hr away. We also do not have a crying room. We have a vestibule but there is not speaker in the back so I can not hear. A lot of the time my husband was to work on Sundays and I have to take my children all by myself so when I go I always sit in the back for those mad dashes to the vestibule while I watch my other children through a tall glass door.
Today a nun told me today I was being selfish because I wanted to bring my daughter for the graces one gets from mass meanwhile everyone else including the priest can not meditate. I noticed that this nun was by herself sitting in the back of the church right across from us. I suggested that maybe she should try sitting in the front of the church because others say up front they hardly hear her.
Her response was then that I should consider that the devil is making my daughter act in such a way to disrupt the mass. So I responded with maybe the devil is tempting you in such a way to discourage me from bringing my children to mass to prevent them from getting graces they need to become saints.
She said then that the way my daughter was acting was abnormal… I interrupted her right there and said “How many 2yr olds have you been around? If my 13yr old and my 6yr old can meditate through mass I am sure you are capable of doing it also.”
She then stormed off.
I am so upset with myself because I did not handle that as well as I should have.
I immediately asked father if I should leave Bernadette at home and he said absolutely not.

Am I being selfish and father being too polite to tell me otherwise? Is this nun right?
When I was arguing I was so sure of myself, now I am not sure. I would love to hear your opinions.

I think our Lord said it the best:

But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.–Matthew 19:14

Bringing your children to Church is part of being a great parent so don’t stop that practice. Just keep in mind that if they get too out of control during Mass to take them outside or in the vestibule to calm down. Personally I dont mind a little shriek here and there. It helps me keep my mind focused on the Mass and the poor souls in purgatory that need our help

God Bless

 

[Bluegoat]

Wow! How rude! And I’m surprised that someone else commented too.

I have no problem with people leaving toddlers home if that is what will work best for the family (including the toddler). But that isn’t always possible, or desirable, and others don’t have some kind of right to expect that.

I wonder where these people think that the children will come from who are going to continue to keep the parish vibrant?

And what I often wonder when I am trying to deal with my difficult, noisy toddler and the baby at the same time, if they see that a mother is struggling and they don’t like the noise, why do they not offer to help? Or even volunteer for nursery duty one a month so mums can get a break now and then to pray quietly themselves? Because it’s not like they get to go home without the toddlers to pray quietly there - unlike the childless nuns.

 

[SanctaMommy]

I’m sure the OP meant to say, ‘QUIET MASS’?

At the TLM chapel I go to on Sundays, there is one family that has five children under the age of ten (and another on the way). When the younger boy and girl start to ‘act up’ during Mass, either the father or the mother takes them out in the tiny vestibule (separated only by two swinging wooden doors) and gives them a few smacks on the behind to make them behave. Of course everyone hears the kids yowling afterward, but then they [usually] are quiet when they are brought back into the church for the rest of Mass.

Yesterday, right after the priest finished the Litany of Loreto following Mass, I heard the youngest daughter ask her mother out loud, ‘Are we done yet?’ [good timing, kid! ] I heard a slight ripple of laughter from some of the congregation, and I grinned to myself in front…I thought it was pretty funny!

I think striking a child, particularly during Mass, is beyond inappropriate. Would Jesus Himself have done the same or suggested such? Children can be unruly. They do not have adult attention spans. They do not mean to be disrespectful or disruptive. They simply do not understand most of what is going on (especially at a TLM) and have a hard time sitting still. I would be horrified - absolutely appalled - if I saw anyone strike a child at Mass. Seeing or hearing a small child be spanked in the middle of Mass would be SO much more upsetting and distracting than fidgety, chatty little ones in the pews. Have we forgotten that patience is a virtue, and that Jesus Himself allowed the children to come to Him when others attempted to shoo them away?

It is difficult enough to ensure that our children remain in The Church as they grow older. Making Mass a terrible, scary experience complete with corporal punishment certainly does not go very far in making the experience a positive one!

OP - I have a troublesome son as well. We do the best we can to keep his behavior acceptable. Most people understand that he’s just 3 and very active. Be kind to your daughter and to yourself! That nun must have been having a bad day.

 

[Padraig1972]

We have all been kids at once in time. The sister perhaps had a bad day. Pray for her and to OP: continue to bring your kids to mass.

God bless you.

 

[barb_finnegan]

Sancta Mommy-well, that is what this particular family does to discipline their kids at Mass, and I’m not about to tell them otherwise. That’s their business, not mine.

Everyone hears it when the kid gets taken out into the vestibule-even the priest. Then the kid [usually] comes back a little chastened.

I sit in the front pew so that I don’t get distracted by them. That family sits in the back pew.

Didn’t you ever get swatted on the behind when you misbehaved as a kid? I know I did-plenty of times! Of course, I don’t approve beating a kid within an inch of his life-that’s stupid-but the kid has to know who’s the boss in the family…and it’s certainly not him/her!

Trouble is, in this paranoid and ‘politically correct’ world that we have today, a parent can’t physically discipline a child without being labeled an ‘abuser’ and having social services butt in. There are too many bratty kids who think that by being disruptive and screaming tantrums they can get their way in everything.

And there’s another Biblical saying, BTW-‘Spare the rod, spoil the child.’ And still another, ‘He whom He loves, He chastises.’

And also BTW-this is one of the reasons why I never married and had kids of my own. I am not very patient around children. Period.

 

[Lamafacaja]

The nun was way out of line and went much, much too far in what was said. Children are always welcome at the Mass. Always.

But that said, you really do have an obligation to take the babe out to the vestibule (or wherever), if she’s getting very noisy. If that bothers you, or if you can’t because you have other children in tow, then keep the babe home until she’s just a little more ready for holy Mass–like around 4 or 5. There’s no sin in it.

 

[SanctaMommy]

Sancta Mommy-well, that is what this particular family does to discipline their kids at Mass, and I’m not about to tell them otherwise. That’s their business, not mine.

Everyone hears it when the kid gets taken out into the vestibule-even the priest. Then the kid [usually] comes back a little chastened.

I sit in the front pew so that I don’t get distracted by them. That family sits in the back pew.

Didn’t you ever get swatted on the behind when you misbehaved as a kid? I know I did-plenty of times! Of course, I don’t approve beating a kid within an inch of his life-that’s stupid-but the kid has to know who’s the boss in the family…and it’s certainly not him/her!

Trouble is, in this paranoid and ‘politically correct’ world that we have today, a parent can’t physically discipline a child without being labeled an ‘abuser’ and having social services butt in. There are too many bratty kids who think that by being disruptive and screaming tantrums they can get their way in everything.

And there’s another Biblical saying, BTW-‘Spare the rod, spoil the child.’ And still another, ‘He whom He loves, He chastises.’

And also BTW-this is one of the reasons why I never married and had kids of my own. I am not very patient around children. Period.

No, my parents did not believe that adults should strike children. They raised 6 of us with nary a swat. My husband and I feel the same way. Typically, spanking is done out of frustration and anger on the part of the adult, not in the loving spirit of guidance toward improved conduct. Why would an adult need to lower him or herself to strike a small child? We are able to teach our children good manners and behavior without resorting to “swatting” them for infractions. We have many loving ways of maintaining our authority without hitting our children. We consider the children to be gifts from God - and while I agree that parents who don’t discipline their children are not doing them any favors - I refuse to abuse my authority and size differential by having adult temper tantrums in the vestibule of our church wherein I take a few whacks at a preschooler to release my frustration!

If I were you, I would ask these parents if maybe they need some help with their large family during Mass. Since you said you have no children of your own, I’m sure your two available arms would be very helpful to Mom and Dad, who are probably very overwhelmed. Instead of looking away while they lose control and strike their children, offering a helping hand (maybe you could hold one of the younger children, or sit between squabbling siblings, or even just offering a knowing, loving smile to the frazzled Mom) would probably be appreciated, and might also help with your lack of patience : ) Remember, it’s a virtue!

 

[Bluegoat]

And there’s another Biblical saying, BTW-‘Spare the rod, spoil the child.’ And still another, ‘He whom He loves, He chastises.’

Shepherds don’t hit their sheep with their crooks. Unless you’re being attacked by a big ram or something, it’s bad form, and not good for the sheep who tend to be flighty already. They’re used to guide the sheep and protect the sheep, which is a totally different idea.

 

[barb_finnegan]

No, my parents did not believe that adults should strike children. They raised 6 of us with nary a swat. My husband and I feel the same way. Typically, spanking is done out of frustration and anger on the part of the adult, not in the loving spirit of guidance toward improved conduct. Why would an adult need to lower him or herself to strike a small child? We are able to teach our children good manners and behavior without resorting to “swatting” them for infractions. We have many loving ways of maintaining our authority without hitting our children. We consider the children to be gifts from God - and while I agree that parents who don’t discipline their children are not doing them any favors - I refuse to abuse my authority and size differential by having adult temper tantrums in the vestibule of our church wherein I take a few whacks at a preschooler to release my frustration!

If I were you, I would ask these parents if maybe they need some help with their large family during Mass. Since you said you have no children of your own, I’m sure your two available arms would be very helpful to Mom and Dad, who are probably very overwhelmed. Instead of looking away while they lose control and strike their children, offering a helping hand (maybe you could hold one of the younger children, or sit between squabbling siblings, or even just offering a knowing, loving smile to the frazzled Mom) would probably be appreciated, and might also help with your lack of patience : ) Remember, it’s a virtue!

No, I think they do all right without any ‘help’ from me. The kids’ uncle sits in the same front pew as I do, and sometimes he has one of the older kids come up and sit between him and his own daughter. When that happens, the kid is fine.

When I go out at the end of Mass, I always say ‘hi’ to the parents and smile at the kids. I’m certainly not an ogre!

That said, I’m still not very patient around kids–I just have to ‘endure it’ when I hear them come in.