Should Christians embrace evolution ?

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Change can equal loss. You like the word change because it hides the fact that there is a loss of continuity.
Yes, change can equal loss- when some of the proteins get scrambled you generally end up with a change from unhelpful information to different unhelpful information. Sometimes you get negative changes and rarer still are the positive ones.

I like the word change because it encompasses all three possibilities.
 
Yes, change can equal loss- when some of the proteins get scrambled you generally end up with a change from unhelpful information to different unhelpful information. Sometimes you get negative changes and rarer still are the positive ones.

I like the word change because it encompasses all three possibilities.
I like the word loss because that is what is happening.
 
I like the word loss because that is what is happening.
How so? The proteins that make up DNA get mixed around- the vast majority of these aren’t doing anything substantive anyway, so no harm no foul. Sometimes they end up in an order that makes them do something. It can be good, it can be bad.
 
How so? The proteins that make up DNA get mixed around- the vast majority of these aren’t doing anything substantive anyway, so no harm no foul. Sometimes they end up in an order that makes them do something. It can be good, it can be bad.
In the case of not being to breed it is a loss of capability. They can no longer breed. That is a loss of function.
 
In the case of not being to breed it is a loss of capability. They can no longer breed. That is a loss of function.
They can still breed, but breeding only works with organisms that have a certain degree of similarity- if they couldn’t breed, they’d die out.
 
Having commonality is not the same as descended from.
Only if you can show scientific evidence of an alternative mechanism. What scientific evidence do you have for the existence of any designers? What evidence do you have that your proposed designers have the knowledge and ability to make organisms like eukaryotes? When did these designers operate? How did these designers adjust DNA to their liking?
It is what we would expect to see.
Please indicate what properties of your proposed designers make it what you “expect” to see. In some cases designers re-use systems, like the cytochrome C present in all eykaryotes. In other cases, such as wings and eyes, they make use of different designs to accomplish the same purpose.
In a way the language of DNA is limited but powerful enough to produce the diversity we see.
DNA is a chemical, not a language.

rossum
 
It is a loss.
No, it can be just a change. For example one group breeds in summer while the other group breeds in spring. Because they breed at different times they do not interbreed, yet both have the required amount of information to tell them when to breed. What information has been lost as opposed to changed?

rossum
 
Only if you can show scientific evidence of an alternative mechanism. What scientific evidence do you have for the existence of any designers? What evidence do you have that your proposed designers have the knowledge and ability to make organisms like eukaryotes? When did these designers operate? How did these designers adjust DNA to their liking?

Please indicate what properties of your proposed designers make it what you “expect” to see. In some cases designers re-use systems, like the cytochrome C present in all eykaryotes. In other cases, such as wings and eyes, they make use of different designs to accomplish the same purpose.

DNA is a chemical, not a language.

rossum
The DNA molecule is a chemical operated by the language of the DNA code.
 
No, it can be just a change. For example one group breeds in summer while the other group breeds in spring. Because they breed at different times they do not interbreed, yet both have the required amount of information to tell them when to breed. What information has been lost as opposed to changed?

rossum
During what season did they normally breed?
 
During what season did they normally breed?
If we take a specific example then Chrysopa carnea breeds in summer and Chrysopa downesi breeds in spring. Given that the area inhabited by C. downesi is entirely within the area inhabited by C. carnea it is probable that C. carnea is the older of the two species from which C. downesi is derived.

Where is the loss, as opposed to change, of information?

rossum
 
Donsnow, thank you for your post. We do differ in our interpretation of Darwin’s life and work. If you are interested, there is a superb two-volume biography of Darwin by Janet Baker:

Charles Darwin: A Biography, Vol. 1 - Voyaging
Charles Darwin: A Biography, Vol. 2 - The Power of Place

StAnastasia
StAnastasia -

Thank you for your response.🙂
 
Of course- nothing can be proved 100%.
We can not say with complete certainty that if i throw a piece of paper in a fire that it will burn, we can not say with complete certainty that a pregnant cow is not going to give birth to a flying money, and we can not be certain that the moon is not made out of cheese 99%.

However, we can push things beyond reasonable doubt- common descent is among those things.
I would submit, that it was the Darwinian concept regarding descent of species that scientists 300 or 400 years from now may have labeled a “Nineteenth Century creation myth.”
 
It’s the essence of all science- however, evolution has already passed it’s trial.
If what you say about the provisional nature of the data contained in science is true, then evolution has not “passed it’s trial”. Anything as shaky as the different theories of evolution, led by Darwin’s disproven uniformatarian philosophy, will be “on trial”, for a long, long time. To think otherwise strikes me as hubris.
 
If what you say about the provisional nature of the data contained in science is true, then evolution has not “passed it’s trial”. Anything as shaky as the different theories of evolution, led by Darwin’s disproven uniformatarian philosophy, will be “on trial”, for a long, long time. To think otherwise strikes me as hubris.
Shaky? The ID side has lost the debate on every conceivable level.
 
If what you say about the provisional nature of the data contained in science is true, then evolution has not “passed it’s trial”. Anything as shaky as the different theories of evolution, led by Darwin’s disproven uniformatarian philosophy, will be “on trial”, for a long, long time. To think otherwise strikes me as hubris.
They actually have 2 gods - “Random” and “Hubris.” 😉
 
Speciation is well defined- for example, domesticated goats are different species from the wild goats they were domesticated from in that they can not produce viable offspring. So, speciation occurred- buffalo would not be surprised by thing because it doesn’t violate his ‘kinds’ rule.

The fact that the ‘kinds’ idea is complete nonsense is another issue.
I don’t believe either of those statements. Because the TOE divides the hairs of species so finely doesn’t make them true. I think some of that TOE smacks of semantics.
 
I don’t believe either of those statements. Because the TOE divides the hairs of species so finally doesn’t make them true. I think some of that TOE smacks of semantics.
So two groups that can’t breed together can be members of the same species? Then what’s a species?

And the methods for finding kinds actively disregard results that don’t fit their desires- about as unscientific and nonsensical as you can get.
 
Shaky? The ID side has lost the debate on every conceivable level.
I’m not on the ID side. I’ve already stated my objection to that philosophy. ID leaves a big gap for any intelligence. I stand by my belief it was the mind of the Christ, before His incarnation as Jesus.
 
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