Should Christians learn Arabic?

[Thorolfr]

If you go into the Arabic world speaking MSA, you’ll get laughed at. Nobody speaks it, except on formal television news programs and the like. Each part of the 15 or 16 major parts of Arab world has its own dialect, and these differ so much that someone from the Magreb would not be understood by someone from the Levant or the Gulf. And the Muslim world east of the Persian Gulf doesn’t speak Arabic at all.

However, almost everything that is written in Arabic is written in Modern Standard or Classical Arabic and the dialects will be of little use in reading Arabic books, newspapers, etc. Only things like cartoons might be written in a dialect.

And the grammar of Modern Standard or Classical Arabic is no more difficult than most other Semitic languages, including Hebrew. And in my opinion, other languages such as Turkish are more difficult than Arabic. Chinese would almost certainly also be more difficult.

 

[DaveBj]

However, almost everything that is written in Arabic is written in Modern Standard or Classical Arabic and the dialects will be of little use in reading Arabic books, newspapers, etc. Only things like cartoons might be written in a dialect.

And the grammar of Modern Standard or Classical Arabic is no more difficult than most other Semitic languages, including Hebrew. And in my opinion, other languages such as Turkish are more difficult than Arabic. Chinese would almost certainly also be more difficult.

My acquaintance with Turkish is tangential at best, but you’re probably right. Finnish and Hungarian are allegedly just as bad. I don’t know enough about Chinese to express an opinion. My intent was only to say that people who want to learn MSA are going to have one heck of a tough row to hoe. Latin, German Russian, and Japanese were a doddle compared to MSA.

 

[babochka]

My acquaintance with Turkish is tangential at best, but you’re probably right. Finnish and Hungarian are allegedly just as bad. I don’t know enough about Chinese to express an opinion. My intent was only to say that people who want to learn MSA are going to have one heck of a tough row to hoe. Latin, German Russian, and Japanese were a doddle compared to MSA.

When I was in the Army, I studied Russian at the Defense Language Institute. At the PX, you could buy shirts with your language on the front. Mine said “русский” on the front, and on the back was “We study Russian so you don’t have to.” The back of the Arabic shirts said “We study Arabic because you can’t.”

 

[DaveBj]

When I was in the Army, I studied Russian at the Defense Language Institute. At the PX, you could buy shirts with your language on the front. Mine said “русский” on the front, and on the back was “We study Russian so you don’t have to.” The back of the Arabic shirts said “We study Arabic because you can’t.”

snork

(I had my Intermediate Russian at DLI in '75. You and I probably know some of the same instructors.)

 

[babochka]

snork

(I had my Intermediate Russian at DLI in '75. You and I probably know some of the same instructors.)

Maybe. I was a decade and a half after you, though I did have some old-timers for instructors. I suspect our barracks and schoolhouse weren’t even built when you were there, as they were pretty new. It was a unique experience, being there just after Communism fell apart in Russia and seeing the joy that our instructors took in that fact.

Were you in Monterrey or San Francisco?

 

[DaveBj]

Maybe. I was a decade and a half after you, though I did have some old-timers for instructors. I suspect our barracks and schoolhouse weren’t even built when you were there, as they were pretty new. It was a unique experience, being there just after Communism fell apart in Russia and seeing the joy that our instructors took in that fact.

Were you in Monterrey or San Francisco?

Monterey. I was in married folks’ housing on Fort Ord.

 

[babochka]

Monterey. I was in married folks’ housing on Fort Ord.

I was in Monterey a few months ago I wanted to take my kids onto the Presidio, but it is a closed post these days. I reminisced about how hard it was to run up Pvt. Bolio Drive. Those were great times and a unique experience in life.

 

[hu324b]

I suppose if I were to learn a language to better understand - I would choose Greek so I could read the gospels in their original language.

 

[thistle]

So it’s useless for anyone who doesn’t live in a place of try to communicate with people who do? How on earth do you imagine trade, international diplomacy and the spread of knowledge from one culture to another happens without people learning each other’s languages?

Have you ever seen JFK’s ‘Ich bin ein Berliner’ speech? Do you know whoever wrote that for him stuffed up the grammar - should.have been ‘ich bin Berliner’? What he said actually translates to ‘I am a jam donut’. Seriously.

We need multilingual and multicultural people in this world, now more than ever, if only to debunk the common conception that westerners are dangerously ignorant of the rest of.the world. A situation that gaffes like Kennedy’s and comments like yours do nothing to dispel.

Arabic is a useless language to learn. The languages to learn are the truly international ones and that does not include Arabic.

 

[DaveBj]

I was in Monterey a few months ago I wanted to take my kids onto the Presidio, but it is a closed post these days. I reminisced about how hard it was to run up Pvt. Bolio Drive. Those were great times and a unique experience in life.

I rode my bicycle about 3 days a week. My uphill was Franklin Street. Going home was great – 40 mph all the way into downtown. Ride the middle of the road, and watch the side streets like a hawk.

We’re going a pretty good thread-hijack, aren’t we

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Arabic is a useless language to learn. The languages to learn are the truly international ones and that does not include Arabic.

One thing I look at when judging a languages usefulness is the number of speakers who don’t speak English where I want to travel. According to wikipedia there are about 100 million Arabic speakers who are not well educated enough to speak standard Arabic and only know their own dialect. So if you plan on traveling in remote regions in North Africa some knowledge of Arabic would be pretty much indispensable.

 

[babochka]

Arabic is a useless language to learn. The languages to learn are the truly international ones and that does not include Arabic.

I don’t think any language is useless to learn in all circumstances. An anthropologist would do well to learn the language of the people he is studying, even if that language is only spoken by a few hundred people, even if those people speak English (or some other international language). Understanding language is important to understanding culture. Native Americans (or others) might learn their traditional tribal languages in order to preserve them. What is the point? Preservation of culture. Those who study linguistics study multiple languages simply because they are interested in how languages work, and each language is fascinating if you enjoy that sort of thing. Learning any foreign language is good for our brain and helps us in innumerable ways, even if there is no obvious practical reason to do so.

 

[DaveBj]

One thing I look at when judging a languages usefulness is the number of speakers who don’t speak English where I want to travel. According to wikipedia there are about 100 million Arabic speakers who are not well educated enough to speak standard Arabic and only know their own dialect. So if you plan on traveling in remote regions in North Africa some knowledge of Arabic would be pretty much indispensable.

Only if you know that particular dialect. As you yourself said, people in these remote areas don’t speak MSA. Anyone who goes through the usual university Arabic program (including Middlebury College’s Summer Language Program), their knowledge of Arabic would about as useful as a degree in Elizabethan English.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Not only Christians but agnostics too should put themselves out more to learn more languages. The standard of language teaching in many schools is low, I understand. Many pupils are told “they aren’t up to it” but what is really happening is they aren’t being helped.

I gather the Tibetans and Mongols won lots of wars in the Middle Ages - why not try to learn theirs?

 

[DeusExMachina]

My acquaintance with Turkish is tangential at best, but you’re probably right. Finnish and Hungarian are allegedly just as bad. I don’t know enough about Chinese to express an opinion. My intent was only to say that people who want to learn MSA are going to have one heck of a tough row to hoe. Latin, German Russian, and Japanese were a doddle compared to MSA.

Chinese, at least Mandarin horrifically complicated. In fact I can’t think of a language I would be less likely to recommend, unless you plan on living or working in china

 

[DaveBj]

Chinese, at least Mandarin horrifically complicated. In fact I can’t think of a language I would be less likely to recommend, unless you plan on living or working in china

Not at my age. And then there’s the writing system :bigyikes:

 

[Thorolfr]

Only if you know that particular dialect. As you yourself said, people in these remote areas don’t speak MSA. Anyone who goes through the usual university Arabic program (including Middlebury College’s Summer Language Program), their knowledge of Arabic would about as useful as a degree in Elizabethan English.

The difference, however, is that all our books, magazines, newspapers, and most other things we read in English in addition to our news broadcasts, speeches, lectures, etc. are not in Elizabethan English. But books, newspapers, magazines, the news, speeches and formal lectures in a university, etc. in the Arab world are all in Modern Standard Arabic or perhaps a mix of MSA and colloquial Arabic. Moreover, even though Arabs don’t usually communicate in Modern Standard Arabic for casual conversation, most of them (even relatively uneducated ones) can still understand it. So a degree in Modern Standard Arabic is not as useless as one in Elizabethan English. The reality is that any educated person in the Arab world uses both a local dialect AND Modern Standard Arabic and a person learning Arabic unless they don’t plan on reading anything or listening to the news needs to learn both a dialect and MSA.

So the comparison of Modern Standard English to Elizabethan English is not quite right. Modern Standard Arabic or Classical Arabic has a role closer to that which Latin used to have in the Medieval West as the language of learning whereas for everyday conversation people spoke in colloquial French, German, English, Spanish, etc.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Only if you know that particular dialect. As you yourself said, people in these remote areas don’t speak MSA. Anyone who goes through the usual university Arabic program (including Middlebury College’s Summer Language Program), their knowledge of Arabic would about as useful as a degree in Elizabethan English.

I could understand somebody who spoke in Elizabethan English, so could most other English speakers. Even if the difference between MSA and the dialect is the same as the difference between Norwegian and Swedish or Spanish and Portuguese, knowing it would be enough to get you around. Even a very rudimentary understanding of the predominant language where your traveling is a very useful thing to have, especially when so many native speakers speak nothing else.

 

[Thorolfr]

By the way, the situation in the Arab world where there is a high prestige language used mostly for writing and formal situations and lower prestige non-written spoken dialects used in casual conversation has a name in linguistics which is diglossia.

Other places have something like diglossia, too. In Germany, for example, people use High German for formal and written situations and local German dialects elsewhere.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Not at my age. And then there’s the writing system :bigyikes:

you cant even technically read it