Should Church marry unrepentant cohabiters?

[pianistclare]

It doesn’t happen that often. In case you haven’t noticed…those who turn their noses up at Church teaching tend to not want a church wedding in the first place.
Tim’s post is excellent.
My priest, for one, is very blunt about what can happen, what should happen, and how he will help make it happen.
The priests are there to guide people and lead them to the correct path.
none of us outside can guess or assume that we know all the private details of their engagement. Also, just because a couple presents themselves, if they are not properly disposed, the priest will not marry them.

 

[TimothyH]

My fiance and I live together. We’ve lived together for 15 years. I became a Catholic in 2015 at Easter. I had suggested getting married before I was baptized/confirmed but our Deacon told me that if we got married beforehand, that I would need to hold off on baptism/confirmation because I’d be living in a state of adultery (as my fiance was formerly married). So he suggested we live chastely (which we have, 100%) and pursue an annulment (which we did, and was completed in January of this year). Our new priest is also aware of our living situation and that we are chaste and he is fine with marrying us. We are going through the marriage classes at the church, and will be getting married when that is complete.

And while I’m aware that this isn’t the ideal way it should happen, I’m grateful that the Church didn’t insist we live separately as it’s not an option. I don’t make enough money to live by myself, and have no one else I could have moved in with. I am grateful that the Church was willing to work with me in a way that would bring me into living the right way ultimately.

Some would throw the baby out with the bath water. God is merciful however, and patient, and willing to work with us, to accommodate our weaknesses.

Remember that Jesus allowed Peter to deny him, knowing that he would eventually return. Peter wept, cried bitterly for it. I cry for my past mistakes sometimes too.

-Tim-

 

[Vico]

I heard that the Church encourages couples to go to Confession before they get married. And for couples who live together, they encourage them to live apart for a time.

But what if a Catholic couple–like so many–don’t have a problem with cohabitation, and they refuse to live apart before the marriage, and therefore also refuse to confess it. Ought the Church marry such a couple?

If the Church marries such a couple, they would receive the sacrament in mortal sin.

And if the Church won’t, then…well, I guess their options are:

1. 
   *]Leave the Church
   *]Civilly marry only
   *]Find a Protestant pastor who would marry them

1. 
   A couple can make it possible to return to the sacraments by first marrying, so that there is no continuing sin in their lifestyle. Eventually there may be repentance so that sanctifying grace may be received. For a Catholic to marry without Church approval does not make a marriage (such as the Protestant example).

 

[Augustine_fan]

A couple can make it possible to return to the sacraments by first marrying, so that there is no continuing sin in their lifestyle. Eventually there may be repentance so that sanctifying grace may be received. For a Catholic to marry without Church approval does not make a marriage (such as the Protestant example).

I bet moral theologians or parents several decades ago did not consider “lifestyle”.
It’s a modern concept.

It is a myth that all sexual sins are abolished if people get married. Past sins, of course, don’t disappear without repentance, wedding or no wedding. After the wedding, there are ways a husband and wife might commit sexual sin. This is not only possible, but likely, if they have been allowed to go through a ceremony that supposedly eliminates or minimizes the morality of their actions.

The Church makes it much too easy to get married, and also confirmed. I wonder how many of these young people, a few years earlier, got confirmed at a certain age, because “everybody” gets confirmed at that age. I know of a family that forced their daughter to go through a confirmation even though she did not want to. Pope Francis is saying we should love people who are not “living in the sacraments” in the usual way. He did not say we should lower the bar for the sacraments, to marry, confirm, and maybe ordain more people quick and easy.

I have not heard of a situation, that a couple living together wants a Catholic wedding, right now, with no repentance. The usual would be that the parents of the man or woman are demanding it. Maybe the priest needs to meet with those parents. As a parent of young adults in very trying times, I think there needs to be better guidance for us.

 

[Phemie]

I have not heard of a situation, that a couple living together wants a Catholic wedding, right now, with no repentance. The usual would be that the parents of the man or woman are demanding it. Maybe the priest needs to meet with those parents. As a parent of young adults in very trying times, I think there needs to be better guidance for us.

All but one of the couples who married in our church in the 12 years I was secretary there were living together. Many were not so young.

 

[Vico]

I bet moral theologians or parents several decades ago did not consider “lifestyle”.
It’s a modern concept.

It is a myth that all sexual sins are abolished if people get married. Past sins, of course, don’t disappear without repentance, wedding or no wedding. After the wedding, there are ways a husband and wife might commit sexual sin. This is not only possible, but likely, if they have been allowed to go through a ceremony that supposedly eliminates or minimizes the morality of their actions.

The Church makes it much too easy to get married, and also confirmed. I wonder how many of these young people, a few years earlier, got confirmed at a certain age, because “everybody” gets confirmed at that age. I know of a family that forced their daughter to go through a confirmation even though she did not want to. Pope Francis is saying we should love people who are not “living in the sacraments” in the usual way. He did not say we should lower the bar for the sacraments, to marry, confirm, and maybe ordain more people quick and easy.

I have not heard of a situation, that a couple living together wants a Catholic wedding, right now, with no repentance. The usual would be that the parents of the man or woman are demanding it. Maybe the priest needs to meet with those parents. As a parent of young adults in very trying times, I think there needs to be better guidance for us.

I know someone that is baptized Catholic that had a Catholic marriage to please the grandmother. I don’t know is there was cohabitation before however.

I mean specifically the sins that are committed by living together as husband and wife but not married, which certainly is scandal. There could be many other sins present and continuing, but that is not included in the remark.

The Church decided to dispense the sacraments with a minimum of restrictions, but we know that sanctifying grace is only increased for those already in a state of sanctifying grace, for the sacraments of the living, and that a good confession will restore that state after loss, which may not be sought initially.

 

[OraLabora]

If the couple is mixed, one of them not Catholic, then confession for that person is not possible.

Sometimes a couple can’t just up and get two places to live. It’s not that easy to rent a place, get two sets of dishes, cooking utensils, two beds, possibly separate cars, etc. There are practical situations which make it appear as if they are unrepentant. It just isn’t that easy as a practical matter and we don’t know what’s in their heart.

Special consideration has to be given to couples with children. A couple may repent emotionally, spiritually and intellectually but a stable household for the children is an overriding concern. A child has a God given right to a home with both a mother and father. Denying the children a mother or father is an injustice. ← this is not my opinion but comes from the Catechism.

Not everything is black and white. Sometimes waiting it out and getting married as soon as possible is the best of many imperfect choices. Leaving the Church however, should never be an option. The Holy Father just wrote about this.

-Tim-

Exactly!

This is pretty much exactly what he has said in Amoris Laetitia. Meet them where they are. Invite them in. Let the Holy Spirit speak to them.

And the Holy Father is quite clear about modern situations being very far from black and white!

For my wife and I it was a progressive thing. A year of living together, civil marriage, re-conversion into the Church after a long absence, then some years after that, convalidation. God has His own timetable.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Of all the many, many weddings I have been to in the past 10 years, I think only 3-4 of them didn’t live together before marrying.

What do you think is a bigger problem:
A.) Cohabiting before marriage
B.) The couple pretending as if they didn’t cohabited before the wedding

 

[Oneofthewomen]

This, my dear Deacon, is the $64K question!

Based on many posts here at CAF, making it worse seems to be the more popular option.

So sad, considering our Holy Father has spoken out against the attitude that the Church and her Sacraments should be a “reward” for only the most holy.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I AM NOT A CANON LAWYER

As one more data point, the Code of Canon Law says

Can. 1058 All persons who are not prohibited by law can contract marriage.

I AM NOT A CANON LAWYER

If you can show me the law which prohibits marriage to sinners, I’ll eat my marriage license.

I AM NOT A CANON LAWYER

tee
Married Sinner

 

[dskysmine]

In my Parish in Portugal I have witnessed marriages between cohabitating people where the couple couldn’t take part in the Eucharist, I assumed that it was because the Priest knew they were co-habituating, of course I am in no position to judge who should or not the Church marry, but I found it quite pastoral for the Priest to regularize their situation through this.

God bless,
D.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I think one possible problem here, is the possibility of scandal, in the Catholic sense. Some young Catholics actually DO believe in premarital chastity, but feel pressured by more secularly minded partners to have premarital sex or cohabitate.

But, I can certainly see scenarios in which the partner who wants to cohabitate says something like “Look, Bill and Emily got married in the Church last month, and they lived together for 6 years before that! So, even Father accepts that in this day and age, it’s unrealistic to expect people NOT to live together. Why are you being so old-fashioned?”

I suppose one can bring up the “Prodigal Son” story, and point out that the outraged oldest brother was in the wrong there. But what if the Prodigal had a YOUNGER brother, who decided, “Look, Dad forgave Big Brother for going out and consorting with whores, he was accepted with open arms! I’m going to do the same thing, too! Because Dad obviously doesn’t think what Big Brother did was a big deal!”

 

[Gorgias]

I heard that the Church encourages couples to go to Confession before they get married. And for couples who live together, they encourage them to live apart for a time.

But what if a Catholic couple–like so many–don’t have a problem with cohabitation, and they refuse to live apart before the marriage, and therefore also refuse to confess it. Ought the Church marry such a couple?

Yes. The validity of the marriage does not depend on their current living situation, nor does it depend on their sorrow for committing sin.

Celebrating a valid marriage, then, means that the couple no longer continues to commit sin, and there’s no further scandal to the faithful who see them cohabitating. This is a good thing.

And, of course, we should pray for such couples, that they may form their consciences properly and come to the realization that they were committing grave sin, and approach the sacrament of reconciliation.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Yes. The validity of the marriage does not depend on their current living situation, nor does it depend on their sorrow for committing sin.

Celebrating a valid marriage, then, means that the couple no longer continues to commit sin, and there’s no further scandal to the faithful who see them cohabitating. This is a good thing.

And, of course, we should pray for such couples, that they may form their consciences properly and come to the realization that they were committing grave sin, and approach the sacrament of reconciliation.

But isn’t the validity of a marriage affected by whether the spouses actually understand the nature of it? And while cohabitation doesn’t inherently suggest they don’t, I can think of many Catholics who don’t actually see anything inherently special about marriage, but want a Church wedding to appease their parents, or just to have a big party. Having a Church wedding is not the same as having a valid marriage. Indeed, considering the many annulments, I suspect the correlation is 50% or even less.

All this being said, the good aspects of marrying cohabitating couples might outweigh the bad aspects. That’s not the same as there being NO bad aspects. Giving other couples less of a reason to NOT cohabitate, I’d say is indeed one bad aspect.

 

[dans0622]

I AM NOT A CANON LAWYER
…
I AM NOT A CANON LAWYER
…
I AM NOT A CANON LAWYER

…

Let’s do something to change that. That way, you can post as a canon lawyer and people can still not care what you say. It’s great fun.

To the point at hand, yes, if people want to marry and are not impeded (by law), they should be allowed to marry.

Dan

 

[Phemie]

Let’s do something to change that. That way, you can post as a canon lawyer and people can still not care what you say. It’s great fun.

To the point at hand, yes, if people want to marry and are not impeded (by law), they should be allowed to marry.

Dan

About 18 years ago I was taking courses in Liturgy and one of the priests teaching was telling us that there was a move afoot to revamp the marriage ‘preparation’ to have couple enrolled in the “order of the engaged”, a period of reflection and prayer reminiscent of the catechumenate. I always thought that would be more beneficial than anything I’ve heard about “marriage preparation” which in our parish is almost non-existent.

 

[dans0622]

… I always thought that would be more beneficial than anything I’ve heard about “marriage preparation” which in our parish is almost non-existent.

That’s too bad. For how many decades has the Church, from the Holy See on down, been trying to strengthen marriage preparation (not just on the parish level, mind you)? The contrary problem, however, also has to be avoided and that is to create practical impediments to marriage via the preparation program.

Dan

 

[Phemie]

That’s too bad. For how many decades has the Church, from the Holy See on down, been trying to strengthen marriage preparation (not just on the parish level, mind you)? The contrary problem, however, also has to be avoided and that is to create practical impediments to marriage via the preparation program.

Dan

The one thing I’ve heard about marriage preparation is that if it’s any good it should make at least some of the couples stop and realize that they shouldn’t get married. If it’s left to the last minute, like some of the couples I’ve seen who had their last session 2 days before the wedding, you know that no matter what red flags are raised the money has been spent and nobody is going to cancel anything.

 

[Padres1969]

Out of curiousity, are we assuming that all cohabitators are having relations with one another or are we just referring to people who simply live together?

In the latter case even by Catholic standards, why are we assuming they need to repent of anything since living together is not inherently sinful?

 

[Phemie]

Out of curiousity, are we assuming that all cohabitators are having relations with one another or are we just referring to people who simply live together?

In the latter case even by Catholic standards, why are we assuming they need to repent of anything since living together is not inherently sinful?

How many couples do you know who are living together in continence? Because the ones I know make no bones about the fact that they have an active sex life. I’ve even had them joke about it during baptismal preparation.