Should Co-habitation be an impediment to marriage?

[ljprevo]

Now, don’t get me wrong. I do know there are people out there who made mistakes in their lives and realize them, and are doing the best they can within their ability and power to make things right by entering into a Sacramental marriage with the blessing of God.

This is exactly what happened to me. I was in an invalid marriage in the past. For those who seen my wedding pics and video will see there were two children there, however they are adopted. My ex and I got them through foster care and adopted them. Well to make a long story short, my ex has no more rights to them.

When I met my wife now, we both have had rough roads in the past, however we turned our live back to God and the church. My children lived at my fiance’s house however I did not. Every evening I went home to my own place. The kids would ask, why don’t daddy stay here? We would tell them the truth, that I could not live there until mommy and daddy were married.

It is a long story and wish I could explain more, but when I tell you God brought the 4 of us together, He did. The next step is to allow my wife to adopt our two children.

My wife and I did everything right and proper. When I met her my annulment was not finished and we did not even hold hands until it was finished, we didn’t date, we stayed as simple friends, but when that annullment was finished, that first kiss made me feel like a high school kid again.

 

[Monkey1976]

Most of the time, that is not what “they” are saying. “THEY” are saying:

Even though we already live like we are married by playing house, we want a pretty church wedding…because we want OUR day with the white dress, the flowers and the reception…because thats what people do … (and the Church doesn’t know what she’s talking about in regards to marriage and sex).

That is what “they” are saying.

I’m not arguing for an official “impediment” to be made here, I have no opinion, but the Church should definately take these folks carefully and do some better prep at least.

Speaking as one of “them”, I can truthfully state that this is not the opinion of myself or my fiancee. We actually don’t want a big wedding - we’ll be happy to simply have one in the Church. I’ve already had several wolves jump down my throat about this, but we haven’t proceeded with marriage yet because we are currently working on an annulment. I’m not going to defend cohabitation as a norm, or a good thing, but please realize that some of us who are cohabitating realize that what we’re doing is wrong, and are working to make it right.

 

[Sure]

Speaking as one of “them”, I can truthfully state that this is not the opinion of myself or my fiancee. We actually don’t want a big wedding - we’ll be happy to simply have one in the Church. I’ve already had several wolves jump down my throat about this, but we haven’t proceeded with marriage yet because we are currently working on an annulment. I’m not going to defend cohabitation as a norm, or a good thing, but please realize that some of us who are cohabitating realize that what we’re doing is wrong, and are working to make it right.

I don’t mean this to be rude, but instead of “working to make it right” why not “make it right” and live separately?

 

[Sarabande]

Speaking as one of “them”, I can truthfully state that this is not the opinion of myself or my fiancee. We actually don’t want a big wedding - we’ll be happy to simply have one in the Church. I’ve already had several wolves jump down my throat about this, but we haven’t proceeded with marriage yet because we are currently working on an annulment. I’m not going to defend cohabitation as a norm, or a good thing, but please realize that some of us who are cohabitating realize that what we’re doing is wrong, and are working to make it right.

I think many realize that there are people like you who are working to their best abilities to make things right. I don’t know the details of your situation, so I don’t believe I have a right to say anything, only that I hope you are working with someone, like your priest or other mentor who will help you achieve what is needed.

But it is a reality that many, if not most, who are in that situation, aren’t working towards making things “right”. They aren’t even trying. They really do believe that it’s totally fine to cohabitate and that it isn’t wrong. That’s the problem and it seems something must be done during their marriage prep to help them realize that. Unfortunately, there are people who really do get ticked off at the Church for butting into their affairs in regards to cohabitation.

 

[BlueKnight]

What about the extra knowledge one gains about the personality and habits of one’s partner when you live together. Also, its harder to hide things from your partner if you have lived with them. Kind of a protective thing. You can also get a better picture of what to expect once married.

Also, sex is only one part of the intimacy issue. Just not having sex before marriage deos not insure marital success. However, the blessing of Jesus upon the marriage is very important I feel. Putting aside the teaching of the Church about sex, one can learn a great deal about the emotional and mental health of your partner when you are intimate with them, and also make sure they can function sexually.

I don’t think being a virgin makes your marriage any better. What I think it does is give more glory to God. To be honest, if your partner has had some experience before you, chances are they are a better lover.

BK

 

[Online_Knight]

I like the way that it is handled now. Priests strongly discourage cohabitation but do not resort to hiring private investigators, giving lie detector tests, or require the physical examination that someone mentioned previously.

Forgiveness… not exclusion.

 

[childofmary1143]

*They: “Please let us regularize our relationship, so that we may no longer be separating ourselves from God.”

Church: “Too late.”*

Oh, that’s attractive – Bah.

:twocents:
tee

You are engaging in calumny. Nowhere am I advocating what you posted above. Also receiving the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony is not “regularize our relationship”. If they truly wish to cease to separate themselves from God then they should obey what God commands.

 

[tee_eff_em]

How many poll taxes/loyalty oaths shall we submit couples seeking marriage to? Should the Church marry?:

• The cohabitating couple who attend Mass weekly?
• The separated couple who do not attend Mass?
• The separated couple who do not contribute to the material support of the Church?
• The separated couple who think ordaining women would be a good idea?
• The separated couple who do not fast and abstain on appointed days?
• The separated couple who do not honor their father and mother?
• The separated couple who cheat on their income taxes?
• …?

:ehh:
tee

 

[Sure]

How many poll taxes/loyalty oaths shall we submit couples seeking marriage to? Should the Church marry?:

• The cohabitating couple who attend Mass weekly?* The separated couple who do not attend Mass?
• The separated couple who do not contribute to the material support of the Church?
• The separated couple who think ordaining women would be a good idea?
• The separated couple who do not fast and abstain on appointed days?
• The separated couple who do not honor their father and mother?
• The separated couple who cheat on their income taxes?
• …?

:ehh:
tee

The bolded one is public and gives scandal. The others are not necessarily public in any way.

 

[tee_eff_em]

You are engaging in calumny.

No I am not. Bah, again.

Nowhere am I advocating what you posted above.

I do not mean to misrepresent you. When you responded to my post, that *“The Church can’t bring people to Christ if they don’t want to be brought to Christ.” *I inferred that you meant a cohabitating couple cannot desire Christ. Perhaps you meant something else?

Also receiving the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony is not “regularize our relationship”. If they truly wish to cease to separate themselves from God then they should obey what God commands.

Of course the Sacrament of Matrimony would regularize their relationship – How would it not?

Here’s a f’rinstance: I know a couple who share an address, and who, by their own admission, have sexual relations with each other. Are they in a regular or irregular relationship, as far as the Church is concerned? Would you advise them to move into separate living quarters or not?

…

That’s right: You cannot answer unless I tell you whether this couple is married or not.

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

The bolded one is public and gives scandal. The others are not necessarily public in any way.

So we should only allow the public sinners and secluded cohabitators to marry? Gotcha.

tee

 

[Sure]

So we should only allow the public sinners and secluded cohabitators to marry? Gotcha.

tee

How did you get this from what I said???

I don’t think it’s prudent for the Church to witness marriages between two people who clearly, by their public acts, have no intention of following Church teaching. However, I don’t think it should be declared an impediment like impotence or consaguinity.

 

[Pug]

And you truly believe that they will live together as brother and sister when the odds are they are not living as brother and sister now?

This whole acceptance of living together and by extension pre marital sex, which does happen most of the time, is, I feel one of the bigger problems we are facing. Once you lose the sacredness of sexual union between a man and a woman what do you have left? I’ll tell you, nothing. It all goes and leaves people bitter, disillusioned and constantly seeking something that they will probably never find.

I don’t believe your average couple who has been cohabiting with sexual relations is going to find it feasible to continue to cohabit while waiting six months to marry in the Church. They are going to be tempted. I’ve personally advised people to do whatever it takes to have one of them move out until the marriage takes place.

I agree that there is basically nothing left in our society to the meaning of marriage. I’m not even sure marriage is seen by society as a true vocation or occupation for a woman. It seems to be an extra thing, glued on to the rest of a life, rather than a center of a life. Like being Mrs. Bob Somebody is a bad thing, a loss of a person. Sort of like a stay at home mom is on hiatus until the children grow up and she gets her life back. I know, that is off topic. But to me it is part of this lack of meaning you are discussing.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

My answer to the OP is “No”.

For couples who are co-habitating prior to marriage I have heard of priests who will witness the marriage but only if it is a small, simple wedding. I can’t remember how small and simple was defined except for the stuipulation of no attendants or one at most.

Also, I think it would be a wonderful opportunity for ministry to open your home to a bride (or groom) to be to assist the couple in remaining chaste and not giving scandal. If you really feel strongly about the scandal thing or whatever I think it’s something to seriously consider.

 

[Pug]

Believe me… it would have been much more convenient if my husband and I moved in with each other. For two years prior to our marriage, I worked 3 different jobs, 7 days a week to stay afloat, shared a tiny one-bedroom apartment with my sister, paid for weekly music lessons as I am a musician (in NYC, lessons aren’t cheap), paid for my own health insurance, car insurance, and planned a wedding. My husband just entered the workforce, but not making much either (he’s a geologist). During this time he bought a one-bedroom condo, which I moved into WHEN we got married. When he was buying it, I did not want to go into buying it with him, even though that would have helped in getting a bigger place. I also did not want my name on any of the documents. He had a difficult time paying even the very low mortgage payments, but to me, that was his place, and my apartment was mine. Something that big should not be shared prior to marriage, in my opinion.

Anyway, we conciously made sacrifices because of what we beleived to be morally right and wrong. It definitely wasn’t easy.

I’m so glad you and your husband set a good example and waited. There are so few examples out there. Most people don’t have the remotest clue that it would be valuable to put out the effort to wait. I suspect that is why they don’t. Well, that and that it is perceived as more convenient not to wait, as I noted before. If a person had some idea that it could be beneficial to wait, then they might endure some inconvenience.

We need to get the word out, but I don’t know how. I think it would help people if they understood that it wasn’t just “some dumb rule”, but that morality truly is sensible and respectful of the human person and their ultimate well-being.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

We have a winner!

Only if the prize for some reason was a life without the possibility of eternal life, if left unrepetant.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

What is your support in Church teaching for this analogy between marriage and Eucharist? I am unaware that the Church has ever taught that one must have the same dispositions to receive marriage that one must have to receive the Eucharist.

Edwin

The phase’ “Look at it this way” was a tip-off that I was trying to draw an analogy between the two sacraments.

Actively living in a state of mortal sin is a turning of your back on God. Why would it be important to a couple who co-habitat to seek a valid marriage in the church, blessed by God, if they themselves have rejected the commands of God and already turned there backs on God?

Actively living in a state of mortal sin moves a person from full communion with God and his Church.

 

[tee_eff_em]

How did you get this from what I said???

I cannot say it any more clearly than: I got that from what you said.

I offered a number of situations and asked “who should be allowed to marry?” You singled out one situation as being “public”. I inferred that you meant that the couple in that situation should not be allowed to marry.

I admit, that is reading a bit into your response, but it *was *a rather terse message – If you meant something more elaborate, perhaps you could recast your response using more words?

I don’t think it’s prudent for the Church to witness marriages between two people who clearly, by their public acts, have no intention of following Church teaching. However, I don’t think it should be declared an impediment like impotence or consaguinity.

What do you think is the intention of the couple (cohabitating or otherwise) who approach the Church seeking marriage?

tee

 

[agapewolf]

What do you think is the intention of the couple (cohabitating or otherwise) who approach the Church seeking marriage?

tee

You can read my past post…they want a the WEDDING day…with a pretty dress, presents, champaigne, dancing…

most (I’m saying MOST here…of course there are exceptions) couples that are living together and having sexual relations don’t really care about the Church’s teachings on marriage, and have any idea about what it is…if they did, they wouldn’t be doing what they are doing.

 

[Sure]

I cannot say it any more clearly than: I got that from what you said.

I offered a number of situations and asked “who should be allowed to marry?” You singled out one situation as being “public”. I inferred that you meant that the couple in that situation should not be allowed to marry.

I admit, that is reading a bit into your response, but it *was *a rather terse message – If you meant something more elaborate, perhaps you could recast your response using more words?

What do you think is the intention of the couple (cohabitating or otherwise) who approach the Church seeking marriage?

tee

Sorry about the miscommunication. Yes, I meant that a public scandal is a good reason not to witness a marriage. Other sins could be cause for a priest to counsel the couple before marriage, but in many cases the priest may not be aware of private issues that individuals or couples have.

To answer your question on the intention:

I would say the priest should ask the couple to demonstrate their willingness and intention to embrace Christian Marriage by moving apart. Any couple should be able to find a way to live apart for a period of time unless of course there are children involved.