Should Eastern Catholics incorporate western devotions like Divine Mercy?

[Lester_S]

Exactly!!
As a Roman Catholic who didn’t grow up with the Divine Mercy devotion (because it is very recent), when I found out about the chaplet I simply thought it was an Orthodox import - and I was glad And I know so well that the very emphasis on mercy is an Orthodox thing, which can only enrich the Roman Catholic spirituality,** like all things Orthodox**!

I sincerely am fan of your attitude, looking at how you can be enriched, which isn’t an attitude adopted by many, sadly. God bless!

 

[vames]

I sincerely am fan of your attitude, looking at how you can be enriched, which isn’t an attitude adopted by many, sadly. God bless!

God bless you and all my Orthodox and Oriental Catholic brothers and sisters!
My father and many of my relatives and friends are Orthodox, so I’ve had the privilege of knowing a lot about Orthodoxy since childhood. But IMO any Roman Catholic who doesn’t explore Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism “misses out on an ocean of graces, that’s for sure”, to use Brumano’s words
When it comes to Eastern and Western Christianity, “breathing with both lungs” is not a metaphor of JPII, is a reality that should be lived as such. If I’m not wrong, the poster MorEphrem said a few months ago that an Oriental Catholic church has (absurdly) recommended to the faithful to abandon Ephrem the Syrian’s writings as “mere poetry” and replace them with Thomas Aquinas’ writings. Ignoring Ephrem the Syrian, for Eastern and Western Catholics alike, would be an excellent example of “missing out on an ocean of graces”. And it’s only an example.

 

[malphono]

Wow…some of these posts, I dunno…a few bad Latins spoil the whole bunch?

Tell me about it. My intent was simply to ask Easterners & Orientals the question in my [post=10594681]OP[/post], not to start a “debate” with Latins. That was done on purpose precisely to avoid the turn this thread took, but of course I’ve been around here long enough that I should have foreseen how it would turn out. :banghead:

 

[jwinch2]

You guys have a serious inferiority complex.

The Pope was certainly acting as the head of the universal Church - indulgences are not restricted only to the Latin Church. And nobody has asked anybody to abandon anything, but you might want to accept something that the Church has promulgated within the last 1,000 years once in a while - it might be good for you.

You are correct in that indulgences are not restricted to the Latin Church only. However, if they choose to participate in the DM Chaplet or any other private devotion, that is their business and no one else’s.

It is not an inferiority complex to do exactly what they were told to do by the Pope, which is embrace their own traditions and heritage. Particularly since so many of them were in situations were Latin traditions has been forced upon them in the past.

Finally, as noted by many people, there is zero need for any Catholic, Latin or Eastern, to accept any private revelation or perform any private devotion. To suggest that Catholics who prefer not to do the DM Chaplet are somehow smug or have an inferiority complex is inappropriate and only makes you come across poorly.

 

[aemcpa]

To suggest that Catholics who prefer not to do the DM Chaplet are somehow smug or have an inferiority complex is inappropriate and only makes you come across poorly.

My comment has nothing to do with whether or not they accept or practice any particular devotions, but with the manner in which anything perceived to be “Western” or “new” is rejected out of hand, even if offered to the universal Church by the Pope. A lot of Eastern Catholics come off sounding like Fredo in The Godfather Part II.

 

[Lester_S]

My comment has nothing to do with whether or not they accept or practice any particular devotions, but with the manner in which anything perceived to be “Western” or “new” is rejected out of hand, even if offered to the universal Church by the Pope. A lot of Eastern Catholics come off sounding like Fredo in The Godfather Part II.

We’re mainly biting off the piece given by one poster who acted rather uncharitably; and has yet to apologize for such a statement which wouldn’t only affect Eastern/Oriental Christians, but some, if not all, Protestants

I have nothing against a prior pope making a statement about the 2nd Sunday of Easter, or what he was going to call it. But, like I said, my parish calendar says Sunday was Thomas Sunday.

On the flipside, here, I don’t remember any Eastern Catholics approaching on their high horse to reinstitute infant chrismation and communion (although we know it’d be the right thing to do.reinstituting the older practice.) towards Western Christians.

 

[aemcpa]

On the flipside, here, I don’t remember any Eastern Catholics approaching on their high horse to reinstitute infant chrismation and communion (although we know it’d be the right thing to do.[reinstituting the older practice.) towards Western Christians.

Please do. Why the Western Church delays the grace of the sacraments of initiation is beyond me. I appreciate that we want the people to go to the bishop so that their Christian initiation can be completed at his hands, but that could just as easily be done by assembling all the baptized infants in a parish annually as it is currently done by assembling all the 8-year-olds and all the 14-year-olds annually, or whatever the age is in a given place.
[/quote]

 

[UncleBill]

My comment has nothing to do with whether or not they accept or practice any particular devotions, but with the manner in which anything perceived to be “Western” or “new” is rejected out of hand, even if offered to the universal Church by the Pope. A lot of Eastern Catholics come off sounding like Fredo in The Godfather Part II.

If it is NOT our tradition we should be wary of it!

 

[aemcpa]

If it is NOT our tradition we should be wary of it!

You should be wary of something given to the universal Church by the Supreme Pontiff? You’re making my point for me.

 

[UncleBill]

Please do. Why the Western Church delays the grace of the sacraments of initiation is beyond me. I appreciate that we want the people to go to the bishop so that their Christian initiation can be completed at his hands, but that could just as easily be done by assembling all the baptized infants in a parish annually as it is currently done by assembling all the 8-year-olds and all the 14-year-olds annually, or whatever the age is in a given place.

Of coarse the Latins should reinstitute the proper order of the sacraments of initiation…not because the East does it this way but because it is their own TRADITION.

 

[UncleBill]

You should be wary of something given to the universal Church by the Supreme Pontiff? You’re making my point for me.

It was given to the LATIN church for the LATINS…notice that it has NOT been adopted by any SYNOD of an EASTERN church. It is strictly a LATIN devotion…and YES we should be very WARY of more LATINIZATIONS being brought into the EASTERN churches!

 

[SyroMalankara]

My comment has nothing to do with whether or not they accept or practice any particular devotions, but with the manner in which anything perceived to be “Western” or “new” is rejected out of hand, even if offered to the universal Church by the Pope. A lot of Eastern Catholics come off sounding like Fredo in The Godfather Part II.

Where did Blessed JP2 say that the DM Sunday should be implemented in all Churches within the Catholic Communion? It seems to be limited to the Latin Church, and His Holiness was speaking as Head and Father of his sui iuris Latin Church - not making a papal pronouncement or declaring a matter of faith, or anything of the sort.

The Syriac and Malankara Church, both Catholic and Orthodox, observe a fast for 15days before the Assumption/Dormition of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Our Fathers handed this over to us, and although not STRICTLY binding, it is encouraged. Should I expect you, the other Eastern Churches, and the Latin Church to now practice this and enjoy the Fountain of Graces that flow from our practice? If you don’t, are you rejecting those Graces and following some local secular/ethnic tradition? Will you encourage your diocese to observe this fast in solidarity with the universal Syriac Tradition, or do you have some local diocesan inferiority complex, despite this being practiced by esteemed Fathers like St. Isaac of Nineveh, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril, and more?

 

[Peter_J]

Tell me about it. My intent was simply to ask Easterners & Orientals the question in my [post=10594681]OP[/post], not to start a “debate” with Latins. That was done on purpose precisely to avoid the turn this thread took, but of course I’ve been around here long enough that I should have foreseen how it would turn out. :banghead:

I’m definitely bothered (maybe not :banghead:-bothered, but bothered nevertheless ) by posts like the ones below. But on the other hand it’s gratifying to see so many posters standing up and saying, No that’s wrong, No that doesn’t represent Catholic thinking, etc.

Sadly, very often something is posted as though it represents Catholicism, and everyone just sits back and allows it.

You guys have a serious inferiority complex.

The Pope was certainly acting as the head of the universal Church - indulgences are not restricted only to the Latin Church. And nobody has asked anybody to abandon anything, but you might want to accept something that the Church has promulgated within the last 1,000 years once in a while - it might be good for you.

The ones who did not Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic missed out on an ocean of graces that’s for sure; they might consider today what they traded this incredibly great feast in return for, some smug self assurance that they don’t need this feast of mercy or ethnic, and liturgical traditions are somehow preferrable to the outpouring of God’s Mercy?
Can’t comprehend this at all.

 

[Peter_J]

Please do. Why the Western Church delays the grace of the sacraments of initiation is beyond me. I appreciate that we want the people to go to the bishop so that their Christian initiation can be completed at his hands, but that could just as easily be done by assembling all the baptized infants in a parish annually as it is currently done by assembling all the 8-year-olds and all the 14-year-olds annually, or whatever the age is in a given place.

True. In fact, as I understand it, for many centuries the each Western bishop would visit each of his parishes every [other] year to confirm (chrismate) all the infants who had been baptized since his last visit.

 

[Peter_J]

not to mention all the Fasts that the East has…plenty of opportunity to grow in spirituality then as well.

Honestly though, re-reading this thread I have to wonder, how would Roman Catholics like it if we came over and said “look how much you are missing out b/c you don’t have these 4 Fasts as well as the Weds and Fri fasts, or the Jesus Prayer, or XYZ…”.

The East is very spiritual and so is the West, each in their own way.

I think there’s an important universal truth here: people can get on the internet and say something as though it’s representative of the Catholic Church (or in this case, more specifically the Latin Catholic Church) when it really isn’t.

(Okay, I admit I said “universal truth” because it sounds better than “universal truth of the internet”. )

 

[malphono]

FWLIW, this is one of the very few threads that I ever started and guess what? I’m unsubscribing from it.

 

[Catherine_Grant]

Note from Moderator:
Members are free to discuss, dialogue, question, disagree with, and debate the liturgy, theology, spirituality, discipline, culture, and history of Eastern, Oriental, and Western Catholicism. **However, all discourse must be civil and charitable. **Care should be taken by all posters that their choice of words foster an environment in which it is possible to discuss, dialogue, dissent, and even debate without causing offense or acrimony between posters.

**This thread will adhere to the Eastern Catholicism forum’s debate guidelines going forward. **

Debate Guidelines for Eastern Catholicism
*These guidelines are the same as CAF’s long-standing religious discussion guidelines and charity guidelines, but they re-state the general guidelines taking into account the specific nature of debates and the style of posters frequently seen in the Eastern Catholicism forum. *

No direct or implied you statements unless it is genuine praise.

• You said…
• You need to…
• You don’t get it.
• Why don’t you…
• If only you…
• It is you who…
• You are wrong.
• You misunderstood.
• I’m not the one who…
• Some people here…

No indication of what the other needs to do unless it is genuine praise.

• You need to…
• Why don’t you…
• If you’d only…
• Those of us who have…

Use non-controversial words which have meanings everyone can agree on whenever possible.
Spend your time discussing the substance of the topic and not arguing tangents on words that instigate or inflame the other side.

Use bolds, underlines, font size increases, or other emphases very sparingly.

No hyperbole and no sarcasm in a debate.

• This conversation always…
• Every single time this comes up…
• Aren’t you a saint?

 

[brumano]

It was given to the LATIN church for the LATINS…notice that it has NOT been adopted by any SYNOD of an EASTERN church. It is strictly a LATIN devotion…and YES we should be very WARY of more LATINIZATIONS being brought into the EASTERN churches!

Surprised I had to wait this long for this one to finally post up, this is the reason for the deliberate inattention to this great feast of God’s Mercy in the Eastern churches. I really appreciate your candor, and it explains why what many believe is the most important and promising spiritual development given to the universal church in the last 80 yrs. of modern church history is met with indifference and even derision in the east; how sad this is even worse because we know part of the great hope in the Divine Mercy Apostolate was that it would be a vehicle for reunifying the church, east and west, but that pride still holds it’s sway in the east is what we have to face. It’s just hard for some of us to fathom these extremes of anti roman fanaticism.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The unnecessary pride is on your end, dear man.

Why do you think the Lord gave Sr. Faustina a prayer that is verbatim to the Eastern Churches way of praying? Perhaps to open your eyes toward the East and understand that it too is equal in dignity and has treasures of prayer.

Not to use His Mercy as a battering ram against the Churches.

Your pro-Roman fanaticism kills the catholicity of the Catholic Church. Why not ask the East to wholesale accept all Western “universal” acts and stop practicing her own God given Traditions?

You are misusing the Blessed Holy Father’s intentions, Sr. Faustina’s vision, and the act of the Holy Spirit toward unity by not seeing the reason for the Latin Feast.

 

[aemcpa]

Why do you think the Lord gave Sr. Faustina a prayer that is verbatim to the Eastern Churches way of praying?

To be fair, the Latin Church officially adopted the Improperia into the Roman liturgy of Good Friday 700 years ago (one of the few remnants of Greek in the Roman Missal), and they were widely in use in the West for centuries before that, so it’s not as if this was a prayer unheard of in the West that was transmitted from God’s mouth to St. Faustina’s ears.