Should gay men be able to take communion?

[soulhunter182]

Dear Brother in Christ, I also encourage you to live in chastity and self-denial, in communion with your bishop and priests. Please read what I have to say in a spirit of love and fellowship.

The natural purpose of a romantic relationship is to discern marriage. Friends can call each other to holiness, be confidants to one another, watch movies and have dinner together. These however, are not a romantic relationship. The only purpose unique to a romantic relationship is to discern marriage. If you are not free to marry a person, you have no business being in a romantic relationship with them. There are, of course, different cultural significances to things such as kissing, hugging, and holding hands, but the part of each action that transcends culture is the intention. If you intend to be romantic with someone who you cannot marry, you are being unchaste.

If you disagree, please provide Church documentation to the contrary.

Hi Spirit Hound, I’d like to apologize with my previous responses towards you, it was unfriendly i know, i was angry when I made the reply. But the contents are true, I’m sorry and I hope that you forgive me as well.

In reference to the church documentation, i feel it would be more accurate to ask the apologist, esp Fr. Serpa on this. You’re asking for a theological thing and I am not equip to answer you with the knowledge and i don’t want to commit an error as well. The apologist are more knowledge on this.

 

[tskrobacz]

“You ignore the weightier matters of the law—justice, mercy, and good faith. . . . [And instead] you strain out gnats and swallow camels” (Matthew 23:23-24).

 

[StevenFrancis]

Shouldn’t a more honest question be: “should persons afflicted with same sex attraction difficulties, but who are in a state of grace, and living as a conscious act of free will, without routinely engaging in fornication receive communion?”

I think i hurt my head here a little thinking about it I’m not well verse with classification etc, but what I consider my self as is that, I’m gay/homosexual man, practicing chastity and celibacy, and im living with my partner, and we’re both on the state of grace (like we didn’t have any mortal sin on our soul after our last confession), striving to live a holy life together, where Jesus is the center of our lives. That would be how I would describe our situation.

May God bless you. This is wonderful. This is my prayer for the homosexual community.

I also pray that sincere Christians with SSA abstain from participation in “Gay” political activities and lobbies which advance the idea of “marriage” between same sex partners. This is one of the most hurtful and misguided problems facing all Christian civilization. It is a direct assault on the Church founded by our Lord, and the good and faithful servants who still hold fast to the scriptures and traditions of the Christian deposit of faith.

Thank you for sharing about you and your partner. That you remain chaste is nothing short of miraculous in this fallen culture. I have no doubt that it is an especially painful cross to bear, and can only imagine that the Lord has awesome things in store for those who bear that cross with dignity, hope and charity. Just your one little response to me is the lighting of one candle in the dark. You are living the gospel, and your example, while it may bring you scorn from many in the “gay” community, it surely provides light and hope for many others.

Thanks be to God,

Steven

 

[babylonsfalling]

Hi, I saw this article when I was reading online, its about a guy being denied communion by the priest because he lives together with his boyfriend. Can a priest do that?

Should gay men be able to take communion?
A Dutch Prince of the Carnival was snubbed by the Catholic Church recently when a priest refused to grant him holy communion because he lives together with his boyfriend.

Link: weblogs.nrc.nl/discussion/2010/02/26/should-gay-men-be-able-to-take-communion/

The priest was correct to refuse that person communion.
If they’re in any kind of “boyfriend” mode then (celibate or not) than they’ve crossed a line into a certain, limited (gray-area) acceptance of homosexuality.

The temptation itself is no more sinful than a crack-babies addiction to crack. In cases like that it’s the homosexual or the addict being a victim of sin, rather than a participant of sin.

Limited acceptance of homosexuality makes one a participant in sin.

 

[Spirithound]

if they are not having relations they should be ok.

I have raised this point to catholic answers apologist a few times and gotten answers that would contradict yours, and I think that they will be best ones to answer you on this. I suggest you raise this to them. a man and a woman is allowed to live together in celibacy if they not allowed to marry or waiting for an annulment etc, same situation applies to some of us, a male couple living together in celibacy, and according to them they did not see any problem on that, nor was it being unchaste. And honestly, that is enough for me to know. it keeps my hope alive that people like us can still be saved as long as we do not cross the line. You can ask Father Serpa.

Dear Soulhunter, Thank you for your second post, and I will take this post in a spirit of charity and love. Please take mine in the same way.

I believe you have misinterpreted these posts from the AAA forum.
For example, this one is addressed to you personally and Michelle Arnold explicitly says that two men may not chastely have a romantic relationship with one another, and she kindly and firmly suggests you reevaluate your living arrangement.
Here, Father Serpa says that a person may have a roommate, but that it is much easier if one is not attracted to that roommate sexually. Michelle agrees that living with a person to whom you are attracted is the last thing you should be doing.
In this question, Michelle says that unmarried people who are living together must live as “brother and sister” (or “brother and brother”), which means that they must not engage in any romantic action with each other.
Finally, in this thread, Father Serpa clarifies the idea of “living as brother and sister (or brother)” in saying that any man and woman who have a previous marriage are not free to date unless and until the decree of nullity is granted.

Dear brother, may God continue to bless you and keep you.

 

[bevsue]

I agree with the Church’s position that SSA is different than performing sexual acts, which are sinful, as they are for straight couples outside of marriage. If people are in a state of grace, of course they should receive communion. I think when a sinful lifestyle is publicly flaunted - gay or straight, or pro-choice - is when it gets dicey for the parish priest and the people in the pews. Serious private sin that is forgiven in confession and avoided in the future as best it can be is one thing, serious public sin unrepented and repeated is another thing. Sin affects us all - we who are members of the Body of Christ are joined to each other. The world may tout “it’s not hurting anybody else”, but as followers of Jesus we can’t say that. That is why leaders of the church struggle with how to deal with public figures who say they are Catholic and thumb their noses at the church’s teaching on serious moral issues. It IS a big deal.

I want to encourage the gay people who’ve written in here and are living a chaste life. Somehow our society has gotten so that people think it is not possible to live without sex -it’s everyone’s right and if you aren’t having it there is either something wrong with you, or you are lying about not having it. This is CRAZY!! Before the so called “sexual revolution” most unmarried people in many parts of the world - gay or straight - were NOT having sex and somehow everyone survived - we also weren’t killing babies legally or supporting a several billion dollar pornography industry…I don’t think there has been what you could call a real positive outcome from encouraging everyone’s libido. So, in the light of all that I say kudos to all gay and straight who are living a chaste life for Jesus. It is not an easy thing to do. We need to pray for all of you more, and encourage you to fight the good fight.

Lastly I would just say, for all of us whatever sin we face in our lives, let’s err on the side of walking too close to the light, wanting too much to be like Jesus rather than walking too close to the edge of the world trusting we won’t fall. Living with a dear friend is one thing, living with someone you are attracted to sexually can be dangerous for your soul and theirs - gay or straight. I’m not saying it can’t be done - with God all things are possible. But I AM saying most people couldn’t do it without a problem. Like anything - hard to avoid an occasion of sin when you place yourself right there.

God bless you.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I apologize if my previous post where a bit hostile towards the two individuals. They hit a nerve. I did not ask to be this way, and i did not choose to be gay as well, meaning to like men or to have SSA. I believe that this was given to me. Being gay or having SSA is hard enough to live in this world of homophobia. Some time we find it more attractive to end our lives because it is more painful to continue living. What is harder though, is to try to live and strive a holy life, with people judging you, that doesn’t even know you, nor care to learn and understand the struggles and the heat that we take from everyone with every waking moments of our lives. I understand that I am not normal based on how the world defines it, and i will never be normal and I will always be excluded, me and the other people like me. One thing that people forget that from the GAY COMMUNITY we are also being excluded, attacked, rejected, criticized etc. ***For people like me who’s gay and accepted the cross, we belong no where. ***And I have accepted that fact and bear them and offer to God the sufferings that we bear to call back the homosexuals back to HIS Heart and save their souls. It it not always easy to pray for them.

I just felt hurt I guess with their post, specially when they judge. I believe if I were to live during Jesus’s time, and approached him, he would not have judged me like some of the people here have done. He would not have turned me away and asked to find proof of the teaching that my life is not sinful etc. I am not knowledge on these things, that is why i sought answers from people who are, and then gets criticized by people who thinks that they experts on the faith, and more knowledgeable than the official authorities of the church.

Re: the bolded part- I understand this more than you know,
and just how painful it can be. :sad_yes:

Soulhunter, Very well said!! :tiphat:

You have said things here that many people need to hear.
I give you a lot of credit for having the strength & courage
to live your faith & convicions, despite the pain it brings you.

 

[pnewton]

“You ignore the weightier matters of the law—justice, mercy, and good faith. . . . [And instead] you strain out gnats and swallow camels” (Matthew 23:23-24).

I do not see how that applies here. Neither mortal sin, nor sacrilege, is a gnat. They are the “weightier matters of the law”.

 

[ConstantinePX]

Call me a bigot. But why should gays be treated differently just because they are ‘sensitive to being treated differently?’

If I was known to be divorced and remarried, I most certainly would be refused Eucharist.

If I had killed someone and have not reconciled, (and again it was actually known) then I would be refused.

Sorry to any gays reading this. But you are not special. You are not above anyone else. You are not above sin.

What standard is this setting? If the gays can be exempt because they are sensitive to truth, then why not the polygamist? The murderer? Anyone unreconciled?

 

[soulhunter182]

May God bless you. This is wonderful. This is my prayer for the homosexual community.

I also pray that sincere Christians with SSA abstain from participation in “Gay” political activities and lobbies which advance the idea of “marriage” between same sex partners. This is one of the most hurtful and misguided problems facing all Christian civilization. It is a direct assault on the Church founded by our Lord, and the good and faithful servants who still hold fast to the scriptures and traditions of the Christian deposit of faith.

Thank you for sharing about you and your partner. That you remain chaste is nothing short of miraculous in this fallen culture. I have no doubt that it is an especially painful cross to bear, and can only imagine that the Lord has awesome things in store for those who bear that cross with dignity, hope and charity. Just your one little response to me is the lighting of one candle in the dark. You are living the gospel, and your example, while it may bring you scorn from many in the “gay” community, it surely provides light and hope for many others.

Thanks be to God,

Steven

Hi Steven,

Thank you for your post. The truth in my heart is, I’d like to get married someday, but i know that I can’t and will never have that option. The reality with people like us,we will grow old, alone, and die alone, and our family name and legacy will die with us, and most likely no one would even remember to offer mass to us since we wouldn’t have children. That is the reality, that is our future. We can’t have children naturally, we can’t enter religious life, and we don’t belong anywhere,In life we are hated by everyone even hated by the same brothers that has the same cross as us, in living we find no comfort, we find no solace, no peace, from the world except from Jesus hidden in the blessed sacrament, and after our struggle is done and death will take us, we will be forgotten.

When i feel my heart breaking, i run to him in the adoration chapel and ask him to take me sooner, I ask him to if he can take my life and just give to someone else that can make better use of it. Sometimes I feel that we were created, or called into existence by God to suffer for him, for there is nothing is this world for us but to suffer, there is no Joy, no Happiness that will not cause us to loose our soul.

 

[soulhunter182]

The priest was correct to refuse that person communion.
If they’re in any kind of “boyfriend” mode then (celibate or not) than they’ve crossed a line into a certain, limited (gray-area) acceptance of homosexuality.

The temptation itself is no more sinful than a crack-babies addiction to crack. In cases like that it’s the homosexual or the addict being a victim of sin, rather than a participant of sin.

Limited acceptance of homosexuality makes one a participant in sin.

Temptations are not sinful, Temptation is not a sin, neither is homosexuality, temptation becomes sinful when you yield to it.

 

[Corki]

Temptations are not sinful, Temptation is not a sin, neither is homosexuality, temptation becomes sinful when you yield to it.

Temptations are not sinful. But putting yourself purposely in a near occasion of sin, is.

 

[soulhunter182]

Re: the bolded part- I understand this more than you know,
and just how painful it can be. :sad_yes:

Soulhunter, Very well said!! :tiphat:

You have said things here that many people need to hear.
I give you a lot of credit for having the strength & courage
to live your faith & convicions, despite the pain it brings you.

HI Oneofthewomen, Thank you for your post, I guess that the only people that can really understand us are those that has the same cross as us. You are in my prayers.

 

[soulhunter182]

Call me a bigot. But why should gays be treated differently just because they are ‘sensitive to being treated differently?’

If I was known to be divorced and remarried, I most certainly would be refused Eucharist.

If I had killed someone and have not reconciled, (and again it was actually known) then I would be refused.

Sorry to any gays reading this. But you are not special. You are not above anyone else. You are not above sin.

What standard is this setting? If the gays can be exempt because they are sensitive to truth, then why not the polygamist? The murderer? Anyone unreconciled?

Call me a bigot. But why should gays be treated differently just because they are ‘sensitive to being treated differently?’

Don’t worry i won’t call you that, I won’t judge you. Treated differently? In what sense?

Sorry to any gays reading this. But you are not special. You are not above anyone else. You are not above sin.

We didn’t say that we were. We aren’t special, and that would be least thing in our mind. We didn’t say that we are above anyone else nor did we state that we are above sin? Where are you getting this? And why are you so angry?

What standard is this setting? If the gays can be exempt because they are sensitive to truth, then why not the polygamist? The murderer? Anyone unreconciled?

Exempt form what?

Just to inform you my brother in Chirst, when you labelled us as “Sorry to any gays reading this.” There are 2 kinds, the ones that had accepted and had taken up their cross, and the ones that had denied their cross. So please do not generalize us as one, and I’ll tell you a secret. The “Gays reading this…” who supports gay rights like same sex marriage and etc. They hate us, because we oppose them since we sided with the church. Trust me my friend, we aren’t exempted from anything, we are ostracised most of the time.

 

[lisahiku]

soul hunter…I just wanted to say that God has a plan for you.

If it makes you feel any better, I am single and hetero and for a few differnt reasons, it is highly unlikely I will get married. I am pretty much doomed to being alone one day.
And let me tell you, there is very little room for singles at the catholic church.
EVERYTHING is geared towards famiies. If you don’t have a family, you are pretty much out of luck.

I go to church, no one welcomes me, says hello to me. All the activities are for families…example: marriage retreats, kids day, etc. I have seriously considered (and probably will one day) joining a different denomination.

And one more thing about gays…they are people too…with real feelings and needs.
I don’t understand why everyone dumps on them.

 

[soulhunter182]

Temptations are not sinful. But putting yourself purposely in a near occasion of sin, is.

I’m not sure about this one, I need to consult a priest for this i guess.

 

[lisahiku]

i never did understand what “near occasion of sin” meant.

 

[soulhunter182]

soul hunter…I just wanted to say that God has a plan for you.

If it makes you feel any better, I am single and hetero and for a few differnt reasons, it is highly unlikely I will get married. I am pretty much doomed to being alone one day.
And let me tell you, there is very little room for singles at the catholic church.
EVERYTHING is geared towards famiies. If you don’t have a family, you are pretty much out of luck.

I go to church, no one welcomes me, says hello to me. All the activities are for families…example: marriage retreats, kids day, etc. I have seriously considered (and probably will one day) joining a different denomination.

And one more thing about gays…they are people too…with real feelings and needs.
I don’t understand why everyone dumps on them.

Fisrt of all, thank you for saying that we are people too. I believe that a lot of folks forget that we are. Well i don’t know if he has a plan or not, I just hope and pray that he does not forget me when death calls me. I just want to remain hidden from the world until that time.

Why are you doomed to be alone? And you’re right, it’s mainly geared towards family in the RCC. I know how you feel and you will be in my prayers.

Lisahiku, please stay with the church, stay with us. Trust me i know how you feel, i know how alone it can be. If you feel and think that you are alone? Don’t! because we are here that goes through the same thing as you. You are not alone, God is with us, God is with you, and God Loves you. You may not feel it sometimes and you may not feel him sometimes because he hides himself, but he is there and his love for you is there. Please don’t leave the catholic church, we will bear this as long as we can because He sent this to us and we must accept. And who knows, after a few hundred years form now? Me might see each other in heaven, and we would laugh about this one day. Focus your eyes on Heaven, and nothing else will matter, because you are not doing this for them, you are doing this for HIM, and he see’s it in secret. He knows, just bear it patiently and in silence. And if you need strength? Jesus is waiting for you in the Adoration Chapel, Go visit him and tell him your heart’s trouble. He likes that.

 

[soulhunter182]

i never did understand what “near occasion of sin” meant.

Me too is it like when I go to a buffet, would that be a near occasion of sin of gluttony?

 

[soulhunter182]

To my brothers and sisters in Christ, this is for you.

People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.

What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.

Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.

In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway