Should gay men be allowed to become Priests?

[sunburst2014]

This is why I said that its important to understand the Churchs perspective because “deep seated homosexual tendencies” is not referring to the actual attraction towards men itself, but the tendency towards homosexual behaviours. A heterosexual male who was struggling with sexual behaviours, also demonstrates a lack of affective maturity which would make him an unsuitable candidate.

The Church upholds the truth that all people have the capacity to rise above base behaviours regardless of the propensity for it … and live life in the spirit. That is not something that secular philosophies put much stock in. Mostly, the life of the body is seen as the highest expression of the person and to not follow physical attraction to its destination, is equivilent to suppressing or oppressing the person themself.

Yeah, it really is more about how a man lives his life rather than whether he is attracted to men or women.

 

[phil19034]

A “deep seated attraction toward women” means that the candidate is a man with a normal libido. That’s a good thing, not a “red flag”. The Church doesn’t want men who are “asexual” or who have suppressed their sexuality. Neither does the Church want men who have little or no self-control. Of course, if someone has some kind of sexual obsession, that would be a disorder, a “red flag”.

No. A man having “a deep seated attraction” towards women has lots of trouble with living a chaste life. A man with a “a deep seated attraction” to women has troubles with lust and objectifying the opposite sex (same for homosexuals). They would not be admitted to the priesthood, if discovered.

Men with “a deep seated attraction” towards women used to be an issue, when clergy also had secular power, but today, it’s less of an issue. Most men, who deeply desire the touch and companionship of women, would not discern a vocation to the priesthood.

But up until the 80s or maybe even the 90s, some homosexuals saw the priesthood and religious orders as a way to hide.

 

[Corki]

No. A man having “a deep seated attraction” towards women has lots of trouble with living a chaste life. A man with a “a deep seated attraction” to women has troubles with lust and objectifying the opposite sex (same for homosexuals). They would not be admitted to the priesthood, if discovered.

Men with “a deep seated attraction” towards women used to be an issue, when clergy also had secular power, but today, it’s less of an issue. Most men, who deeply desire the touch and companionship of women, would not discern a vocation to the priesthood.

But up until the 80s or maybe even the 90s, some homosexuals saw the priesthood and religious orders as a way to hide.

That is just not true. Almost every healthy heterosexual man has a deep seated attraction towards women. It is the biological imperative that drives the continuation of the species. What you are describing is someone with a sex addiction.

 

[phil19034]

That is just not true. Almost every healthy heterosexual man has a deep seated attraction towards women. It is the biological imperative that drives the continuation of the species. What you are describing is someone with a sex addiction.

Let’s get on the same page with what “deep seated attraction” means. It means “affectively immature.”

If a man often turns around to check out the behind of a woman when he walks past her, he is NOT acting affectively mature. If a man masturbates daily or weekly, he’s acting affectively immature.

Do you see lots of priests or deacons checking out women as they walk past? No, because they are affectively mature. Do you think that priests masturbate often? I don’t because they are affectively mature.

Being affectively mature is not the same as being asexual. It’s being able to control how one reacts to his/her own attractions, giving them the ability to live a mostly chaste life. People who have trouble with chastity, custodian of eyes, or objectification of the opposite sex are not automatically sex addicts.

Sex addiction is more than this. Someone with sex addiction may have 100+, 200+, 300+ sexual partners. They have to have sex all the time and with anyone. Multiple partners in one night, multiple partners at one time, some same sex partner sex, etc. I knew a girl like that in college, by the time she was 19 she already had over 50 male sexual partners, not including ones she just got to “third base” with. She then gave girls a shot for a while and then went back to guys.

 

[Corki]

Let’s get on the same page with what “deep seated attraction” means. It means “affectively immature.”

If a man often turns around to check out the behind of a woman when he walks past her, he is NOT acting affectively mature. If a man masturbates daily or weekly, he’s acting affectively immature.

Do you see lots of priests or deacons checking out women as they walk past? No, because they are affectively mature. Do you think that priests masturbate often? I don’t because they are affectively mature.

Being affectively mature is not the same as being asexual. It’s being able to control how one reacts to his/her own attractions, giving them the ability to live a mostly chaste life. People who have trouble with chastity, custodian of eyes, or objectification of the opposite sex are not automatically sex addicts.

Sex addiction is more than this. Someone with sex addiction may have 100+, 200+, 300+ sexual partners. They have to have sex all the time and with anyone. Multiple partners in one night, multiple partners at one time, some same sex partner sex, etc. I knew a girl like that in college, by the time she was 19 she already had over 50 male sexual partners, not including ones she just got to “third base” with. She then gave girls a shot for a while and then went back to guys.

No, let’s not get on the same page.

Deep seated attraction does NOT mean affectively immature. Homosexual attraction can be transient before a person reaches maturity.

Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.

Deep seated in the context of the Vatican document means** not transitory.** It means not a result of immaturity. A mature man will usually have a deep seated attraction to women - that is not transitory and not subject to change.

 

[phil19034]

No, let’s not get on the same page.

Deep seated attraction does NOT mean affectively immature. Homosexual attraction can be transient before a person reaches maturity.

Well, I’m not arguing that gay men should be allowed to be priests.

I’m arguing that maturity is needed for a priest to live a life of celibacy. A sexually immature person, who has trouble with sexual sin could be bared from the priesthood until he becomes more mature, if his troubles are known. We can’t have a priest who is a womanizer.

(BTW - your last reply makes a lot of sense)

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Deep seated in the context of the Vatican document means** not transitory.** It means not a result of immaturity. A mature man will usually have a deep seated attraction to women - that is not transitory and not subject to change.

What would you say about men who have a deep-seated attraction to women – and have always had such an attraction – despite also (as an adult) being physically attracted to men?

This describes myself, but I promise not to take your response personally. I don’t have any insistent need to affirm that I’m affectively mature.

 

[LongingSoul]

No, let’s not get on the same page.

Deep seated attraction does NOT mean affectively immature. Homosexual attraction can be transient before a person reaches maturity.

Deep seated in the context of the Vatican document means** not transitory.** It means not a result of immaturity. A mature man will usually have a deep seated attraction to women - that is not transitory and not subject to change.

There is a lot of discussion about what ‘deep seated homosexual tendencies’ mean but I believe that it always indicates a lack of sexual maturity as a basis for Church teaching. The Church doesn’t accept homosexuality is part of a persons identity. We are either male or female and the lack of integration is the result of a disorder in the psyche. When the Church speaks of ‘deep seated homosexual tendencies’ that necessarily implies some aspect of assent of the will to ignore or reject the nuptial meaning of the body. The Church is not making a distinction between degrees of homosexuality ranging from transitory to a permanent identity.

In other words a person isn’t born with ‘deep seated homosexual tendencies’ being incapable of appreciating a spousal relationship with the Church and spiritual fatherhood. That deep seated tendency indicates a lack of sexual maturity that is normal to every person according to his/her gender. Seminary formation isn’t the time to address that but it is not considered something inherent to a person. The tendency is still considered a lack of affective maturity.