Should Government Take over Health Care?

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fultonfish said:
rs.
The Federal Medicare program is the worst of all and denies more claims than any of the private sector insurance programs.
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Actually this is not true. Reference: rbguy.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/6/790105/-Debunked!-Medicare-denies-more-than-Priv.Insurance!-%28Update2

“Private Health Insurers (PHI) deny people that want to buy health insurance, but have a pre-existing condition, in other words they cherry pick the healthy while medicare covers you no matter what. These people aren’t accounted for in the statistics.”

And:

“AMA’s statistics don’t account for the fact that PHI’s often drop people when they get sick and if they drop you, you are no longer one of their customers that can be denied.”
 
St_Francis said:
But maybe it’s not fair to impose that type of debt on those who are coming along after us? I mean, when the government prints money, we are either imposing debt or causing inflation, and either way, that’s bad for our future situation.

Not to mention setting up a situation *just before *we have a lot of people about to retire. The OP said that this was a move to sort of spread the costs more widely when the baby boomers started to retire. The government said they would pay for it, but they see that they will not be able to, so rather than admit that they made a mistake, they are trying to dash it through in such a hurry, citing all this *urgency, *when the provisions won’t start taking effect for *4 years. *

And I’m sure they said that in Oregon there wouldn’t be rationing, and yet the bureaucrats have somehow managed it. What is even more disturbing is that they are using “comparative effectiveness;” this is something that the Obama administration *has already put in place, *in the most recent stimulus bill.
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In the days where money was backed by gold and minted by the treasury it would be very true that printing money caused inflation. But today our money is backed by nothing and printed by a private for profet bank called the Federa Reserve. The value of it is manipulated by insiders who have no loyalty to any nation and the value of the money has no connection to the money supply whatsoever, its all insider controlled. The Federal reserve determines it’s value at will. People that concern themselves with national debt are playing in to the one world governement insiders hands.
 
aspawloski4th said:
We have no competition as it is. a governement take over would be taking the medical socialism that is private and making it public. I think a good take over for a few decades will scare the insurance compannies to never cheat people again once medical goes back to private.
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There would be competition if people could buy policies across state lines. Prices would come down if tort reform were included. Neither of these ideas are entertained even a little bit by the Dems. They want to control this huge part of our national economy–and they will wreck our healthcare delivery system in the process.
 
Ella said:
Actually this is not true. Reference: rbguy.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/6/790105/-Debunked!-Medicare-denies-more-than-Priv.Insurance!-%28Update2

“Private Health Insurers (PHI) deny people that want to buy health insurance, but have a pre-existing condition, in other words they cherry pick the healthy while medicare covers you no matter what. These people aren’t accounted for in the statistics.”

And:

“AMA’s statistics don’t account for the fact that PHI’s often drop people when they get sick and if they drop you, you are no longer one of their customers that can be denied.”
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And Medicare is going broke. We cannot continue down this path and stay a first rate country. You cannot spend money you do not have. And again, I ask, why dismantle the whole healthcare system to fix it for a small majority of people who do not have insurance or cannot afford it?
 
pathia said:
I make too much to get free drugs, I’ve asked the companies and groups around me already.

The drugs I need are something like $750-$1250 a month here in the states without insurance. I could import them from overseas, but now they’re getting seized 3 out of 4 times, I can’t keep bouncing around on meds like that, as that’s not healthy either.
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With all due respect, what evidence do you have that you will be given “free” drugs if the government takes over the healthcare system?
 
mary_bobo said:
And Medicare is going broke. We cannot continue down this path and stay a first rate country. You cannot spend money you do not have. And again, I ask, why dismantle the whole healthcare system to fix it for a small majority of people who do not have insurance or cannot afford it?
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its called printing money. traditional knowledge about how mone works doesnt apply here. Since insiders manipulate the the value and the currency is floating, the value and how much is in circulation have no connection whatsoever. Don’t listen to statistics , most of them lie I know many more people whos isuarance has failed them , than are happy with it.
 
fultonfish said:
Several states have tried different approaches to government provided health care or health insurance and they have all ended very badly.

Massachusetts, Hawaii and others.

The Federal Medicare program is the worst of all and denies more claims than any of the private sector insurance programs.
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I haven’t heard of medicare dropping someone from their care completely while they fight cancer (Or any other life threatening issue), which is something insurance companies have been known to do, repeatedly and pay people bonuses for doing it.
 
fultonfish said:
healthcarehorserace.com/tag/beverly-gossage/

Medicare rejects twice as many claims as private insurors on a percentage basis.
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Actually this is not true. Reference: rbguy.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/6/790105/-Debunked!-Medicare-denies-more-than-Priv.Insurance!-%28Update2

“Private Health Insurers (PHI) deny people that want to buy health insurance, but have a pre-existing condition, in other words they cherry pick the healthy while medicare covers you no matter what. These people aren’t accounted for in the statistics.”

And:

“AMA’s statistics don’t account for the fact that PHI’s often drop people when they get sick and if they drop you, you are no longer one of their customers that can be denied.”
 
pathia said:
I haven’t heard of medicare dropping someone from their care completely while they fight cancer (Or any other life threatening issue), which is something insurance companies have been known to do, repeatedly and pay people bonuses for doing it.
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I just found out something about this. When you buy a policy, there is a lifetime cap on what they will pay out for you. Once you hit that, then they won’t pay for any more.
 
mary_bobo said:
With all due respect, what evidence do you have that you will be given “free” drugs if the government takes over the healthcare system?
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Did I ever ask for free? Please point it out. If you’re speaking of my earlier post, I’m referring to when drug makers themselves provide drugs for low income individuals at reduced costs, or outright for free. I’d like to think they do this out of the goodness of their heart, but it’s also good advertising and PR.

Since I actually work 30hours a week as a contractor, I make too much to qualify for any of those programs.
 
pathia said:
Did I ever ask for free? Please point it out. If you’re speaking of my earlier post, I’m referring to when drug makers themselves provide drugs for low income individuals at reduced costs, or outright for free. I’d like to think they do this out of the goodness of their heart, but it’s also good advertising and PR.

Since I actually work 30hours a week as a contractor, I make too much to qualify for any of those programs.
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We had a neighbor who was self-employed and 61 years old when he was dxed with MS. He was able to get a group to help him with the cost of his meds, which were supposed to be about $1000/month. I would ask him what that group was, except for that he had a heart attack and died a few months ago.

I really encourage you to keep looking. Find message boards with people who have the same problem you do and ask them. Call every charity you can and ask them if they know of one which can help. Call the national association of your condition. Call the company which makes the medication.
 
Unless government can prove to me it can run something correctly then absolutely, 100% NO. It not only violates the constitution, but it violates common sense. They can’t even run a post office for goodness sakes.
 
johngh said:
Unless government can prove to me it can run something correctly then absolutely, 100% NO. It not only violates the constitution, but it violates common sense. They can’t even run a post office for goodness sakes.
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What are you talking about? For $.44 I can put an envelope in a box on one side of the country and two days later it is at my sister’s 3000 miles away … and here are a few pretty impressive facts - granted it is on their site but really pretty impressive!
usps.com/communications/newsroom/postalfacts.htm

In our business I’d rather us the USPS anytime over the other more expensive and less reliable options… so for our money the post office does a fantastic job!
 
4elise said:
What are you talking about? For $.44 I can put an envelope in a box on one side of the country and two days later it is at my sister’s 3000 miles away … and here are a few pretty impressive facts - granted it is on their site but really pretty impressive!
usps.com/communications/newsroom/postalfacts.htm

In our business I’d rather us the USPS anytime over the other more expensive and less reliable options… so for our money the post office does a fantastic job!
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I wasn’t really referring to the effectiveness of the delivery service, more to the fact that the post office is going bankrupt.
 
4elise said:
What are you talking about? For $.44 I can put an envelope in a box on one side of the country and two days later it is at my sister’s 3000 miles away … and here are a few pretty impressive facts - granted it is on their site but really pretty impressive!
usps.com/communications/newsroom/postalfacts.htm

In our business I’d rather us the USPS anytime over the other more expensive and less reliable options… so for our money the post office does a fantastic job!
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What is johngh talking about? What are you talking about?

I can’t believe you have selected the post office of all things to defend the government taking over health care. Even our President who is anti capitalist, anti life, and anti working people, understands as he outlined in one of his recent many speeches that “UPS and FedEx were doing fine, it was the post office that was in trouble.”

You refer to their ability to deliver a letter for 44 cents; one can accomplish a basic task if given enough personal and money through brute force; that does not make it efficient. I can send the same letter anywhere in the world for virtually nothing with email.

I cannot visit our local post office without leaving in complete amazement at the stupidity with which the post office operates. I recently went to our local post office to mail 15 certified letters (necessary to get proof of delivery for unpaid bills). After waiting in line for 20 minutes with the letters which were all addressed and sealed, needing only postage; I was told to fill out two separate documents for each letter (30 documents all with basically the same information). So, I went back to the small table in the middle the crowded post office and proceed to do as I was directed. I spent ½ hours standing there filling in the same information over and over and over. Then I went back to the counter and paid $75 to have the manual documents pasted to the letters, postage applied and mailed.

The post office is still operating as though it was 1901.

Don’t even get me started on the amount of mail that is returned to me because the post office claimed it was an invalid address even though mail is sent to the same address regularly with no problem. My neighbors and I have to continually finish delivering the mail for each other because the carrier constantly is putting the mail in the wrong box.

I must force myself to stop, I could go on for several pages outlining the incompetence of the post office, this is why the government taking more of our health care scares me to death.
 
See how many hoops you have to jump through to rent a post office box.
 
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