Should Government Take over Health Care?

[jman507]

I don’t know where you live but health care and prescriptions for those that have barely an income to cover meds or none at all can’t get help…sorry…these people who have no income without medicaid, will get the bills and be harrassed from collectors after using ER services nor are they given good treatment. We do not have the best health care in the world…our culture and society doesn’t work at assisting us to be healthier, and give pills for everything under the sun… The poor and middle-class eat the cheaper food which is the worst for their health…corporate greed on all levels is involved in exploiting those with less and they do it in all different ways to make money…if we know so much why are people getting sicker…the same with our great psychiatry…more pills. The current system is corrupt and greedy…we need a public option and health care reform…Michael Moore you rock!!

Sure sure there might be corporate greed, but it is not like the government is free from the stain of corruption. I think one other thing to consider is that goods are scarce. We have constraints; not to mention we can also “kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.” We do also have choices that have lead many of ourselves into bad health, granted there are also many who have not made choices as such.

Just becareful for what you wish for, the current social safety net programs are all ready a huge unfunded liablity that will continue to inflate. We can add more, but eventually there can be a point of that all breaking down. Also the more we add on, the harder it will be to keep that inflation of liability in check with continual exapansion of our economy. Then what?

 

[pathia]

We do also have choices that have lead many of ourselves into bad health, granted there are also many who have not made choices as such.

It’s very hard to live healthily, when you struggle to pay rent, this means things like food and heat get neglected. One of the reasons I was so sick when I was younger, was because I was homeless. No heat, no regular food, rotten food out of trash cans etc. You do what you can to survive in the short term, long term health isn’t even a factor, because you just need something, anything at all, to eat.

 

[mary_bobo]

I see that happeneing if we keep the statusquo. So whats the diff? If even one American ca’t access the healthcare system, then none has anyright to it.

The greatness of America did not come from a socialist system as you seem to suggest. And before you accuse me of not wanting to help others, I believe there are ways to provide for those who truly need help without dismanteling our system entirely. I realize that many think that Medicare is a good program. In many ways it is. But where do you think many of the cuts are going to come from when Obamacare takes hold, if it does. And for anyone that thinks it is going to be free, I have a bridge to sell. It just isn’t going to happen.

 

[gakroeger]

The greatness of America did not come from a socialist system as you seem to suggest. And before you accuse me of not wanting to help others, I believe there are ways to provide for those who truly need help without dismanteling our system entirely. I realize that many think that Medicare is a good program. In many ways it is. But where do you think many of the cuts are going to come from when Obamacare takes hold, if it does. And for anyone that thinks it is going to be free, I have a bridge to sell. It just isn’t going to happen.

Right on…

Many who blindly support this administration’s health care reform do not weight the pro’s and con’s; they merely see that the existing system is not perfect (what system is?) and support change (just like they did with the Obama “change” slogan). We need to ask what change, before we support it. Yes, this plan may improve the status of a couple of million people and be a disaster for a couple of hundred million.

People need to understand that the government does not have money of their own. They can tax we the people to get money and they can print more money which devalues the money that we the people are left with. When we shop for ourselves with our own money we are careful about how we spend it, however, when the government spends our money in wasteful ways we support it. The problem is we do not think of it as “our” money, we think of it as other people’s money or the government’s money. Every dollar the government takes from the economy devalues the economy. The government cannot create wealth, only the private sector can create wealth and every dollar the government takes from the private sector decreases its ability to create wealth. America did not become great because of big government; it became great because of the capitalistic system that this administration is killing.

Have those supporting this health care plan thought about what this same government just did with our money on the various bail outs? In the automotive industry alone, every American paid the automotive companies (GM and Chrysler) $1000’s of dollars and did not get anything for their money. It is like walking into a car dealer and paying for a car but not getting the car.

 

[jman507]

It’s very hard to live healthily, when you struggle to pay rent, this means things like food and heat get neglected. One of the reasons I was so sick when I was younger, was because I was homeless. No heat, no regular food, rotten food out of trash cans etc. You do what you can to survive in the short term, long term health isn’t even a factor, because you just need something, anything at all, to eat.

Naturally, and if we decimate the value of the dollar, its the poor and middle class, that will all be living like that. If the people who can take responsiblity for their condition do not, it will also come to harm those who are not able to. It would be nice of the social safety net was for those who are in no other position than to use it; but when people overly rely on it, it can break. Granted we all do somewhat rely on it, othewise we would be in a position like China, whereas we may spend too much knowing it is there, they save to much as they expect nearly nothing.

I’m sorry if I am coming off as cold and insensative, I really don’t mean to be. The long term sustainablity is very important, because the constraints will always be there. Yes, you were only concerned aboutthe short term, out of your poverty, but what do you think will happen if the nation has to become that way?

 

[aspawloski4th]

Naturally, and if we decimate the value of the dollar, its the poor and middle class, that will all be living like that.

The value of the dollar went into the toilet a long time ago. It’s manipluated by one world government insiders, proof is gold doesn’t back it anymore. The value of the dollar is far byond worth worrying about anymore. The money system is corrupt. Money is created out of nothing evertie a mortage is written, everytine a creditcard pays the merchant, and everytime the federal reserve buys a bond, when the Federal reserve buys a bond the money is created on a computer screen! I can’t believe people would bother worrying about defecits and monatary value with a dollar thats backed by nothing tangable. By constitutional standards all current money is counterfeit. With that being said, with a floating currancy, I say float that baby!

 

[pathia]

I’m sorry if I am coming off as cold and insensative, I really don’t mean to be. The long term sustainablity is very important, because the constraints will always be there. Yes, you were only concerned aboutthe short term, out of your poverty, but what do you think will happen if the nation has to become that way?

If I didn’t become that way, I wouldn’t have lived long enough to have the health problems that come later in life. I don’t entirely see your point, I’m a person, not a country.

 

[jman507]

The value of the dollar went into the toilet a long time ago. It’s manipluated by one world government insiders, proof is gold doesn’t back it anymore. The value of the dollar is far byond worth worrying about anymore. The money system is corrupt. Money is created out of nothing evertie a mortage is written, everytine a creditcard pays the merchant, and everytime the federal reserve buys a bond, when the Federal reserve buys a bond the money is created on a computer screen! I can’t believe people would bother worrying about defecits and monatary value with a dollar thats backed by nothing tangable. By constitutional standards all current money is counterfeit. With that being said, with a floating currancy, I say float that baby!

Money is what money does. As long as people think it has a certain value and trades with it, then it does. I mean if you are not going to pay anyone with a dollar, then health care is not going to be your worry.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Money is what money does. As long as people think it has a certain value and trades with it, then it does. I mean if you are not going to pay anyone with a dollar, then health care is not going to be your worry.

And if you print a few more Dollars to pay for health care it should still be the same value shouldn’t it now.

 

[jman507]

And if you print a few more Dollars to pay for health care it should still be the same value shouldn’t it now.

With respect to a given medical procedure the value does not change. With respect to the dollar, as more dollars are printed, the value increases along with the value of everything else. If you try to inflate out of the problem, creditors will probably be scared off. Which that then will ripple through out the US along with the world. Health care will be of little care, when we have to worry about having food.

 

[jman507]

If I didn’t become that way, I wouldn’t have lived long enough to have the health problems that come later in life. I don’t entirely see your point, I’m a person, not a country.

If we want a government take over of health care, then then how well the government can manage resources will affect your ability to have access health care and the quality of that care you will receive. The difference between you and the country is that by shifting it over to the government of the country, you can care for people who cannot afford it by increasing the number of people who can carry the load of the costs. If that whole leads to a fry-out of the system the only care people will receive from it will be very poor.

 

[fultonfish]

If we want a government take over of health care, then then how well the government can manage resources will affect your ability to have access health care and the quality of that care you will receive. The difference between you and the country is that by shifting it over to the government of the country, you can care for people who cannot afford it by increasing the number of people who can carry the load of the costs. If that whole leads to a fry-out of the system the only care people will receive from it will be very poor.

The government already runs health care on Indian reservations and the government does a terrible job.

One would think that if they wanted to create a good example, they would have turned Indian reservations into crystal palaces with gleaming modern medical facilities, but they did not.

Basically people are assuming that the government has good intentions AND people are evaluating government programs based on promises, not based on the reality of the programs that the government has already screwed up.

 

[aspawloski4th]

With respect to a given medical procedure the value does not change. With respect to the dollar, as more dollars are printed, the value increases along with the value of everything else. If you try to inflate out of the problem, creditors will probably be scared off. Which that then will ripple through out the US along with the world. Health care will be of little care, when we have to worry about having food.

That would be only true if money was backed by silver or gold. The insiders took it off gold so they could have the money supply and value not connected. Oldfashioned principles on how the vaue of the dollar don’t apply if its a floating currency.

 

[Catholictrain]

The fact is, the Healthcare bill does not address some of the key problems in our nation… the problem of
“I will sue you if everything does not turn out perfectly”
and the problem of
“I expect to have whatever care I want, whenever I want it and I expect that if I cannot afford to pay for it, I expect someone else to pay for it.”

Obviously we need Tort reform, but it is not in the Healthcare bill congress just passed.

 

[jman507]

That would be only true if money was backed by silver or gold. The insiders took it off gold so they could have the money supply and value not connected. Oldfashioned principles on how the vaue of the dollar don’t apply if its a floating currency.

Well then gold and silver would then not be tied value. Money is what money does. So long as people preceive it to have a certain value, it has that value. So long as those doctors and hospitals are foolish enough to take those dollars of medicare, one can receive care from them.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Well then gold and silver would then not be tied value. Money is what money does. So long as people preceive it to have a certain value, it has that value. So long as those doctors and hospitals are foolish enough to take those dollars of medicare, one can receive care from them.

You are obviously not a conspiracy theorist, I am and don’t appologise to anyone for it. The insiders learned a big lesson from the inflation of the old Weimar republic. Now we have a system where the mere writing out of a mortage creates money out of nothing, it’s call the Fractional Reserve Banking Act of 1980. The amount in the money supply and the value of the money haver no connection whatsoever. Instead of being an idealogue, I going to be pragmatic and take advantage of the game the insiders are playing with us. Might as well, someday they will collapse our currency at will,and bing the world under one governement.

 

[Sambo85]

The Constitution says that the government is there to provide for the defense of the nation and promote the general welfare. It is up to the individual to provide for him or herself. Health care is not a “right.” A right is something the government can’t tell you not to do. Not something that the government assures you have.

 

[aspawloski4th]

The Constitution says that the government is there to provide for the defense of the nation and promote the general welfare. It is up to the individual to provide for him or herself. Health care is not a “right.” A right is something the government can’t tell you not to do. Not something that the government assures you have.

Our constitution has been suspsended since the 1933 War Powers act and the 1935 Fiaincial Restorations acts, so it doesn’t apply anyway.

 

[SHANTARAM]

You are obviously not a conspiracy theorist, I am and don’t appologise to anyone for it. The insiders learned a big lesson from the inflation of the old Weimar republic. Now we have a system where the mere writing out of a mortage creates money out of nothing, it’s call the Fractional Reserve Banking Act of 1980. The amount in the money supply and the value of the money haver no connection whatsoever. Instead of being an idealogue, I going to be pragmatic and take advantage of the game the insiders are playing with us. Might as well, someday they will collapse our currency at will,and bing the world under one governement.

There is a correlation between the money supply and the value of a currency.

If you were to remove fractional reserve banking then you could kiss 70%+ of your lifestyle away.

 

[aspawloski4th]

There is a correlation between the money supply and the value of a currency.

If you were to remove fractional reserve banking then you could kiss 70%+ of your lifestyle away.

Funny. before the 1980 Fractional Reserve banking act came about, my family’s lifestyle was a heck of a lot better. Take me back to the 1970’s especially the early 70’s anyday. Healthcare was better, my family was able to take a vacation now and then, many food had better ingrediants in them back then, the good ingrediants got too expensive in the 80’s. Id say my lifestyle before that law was just fine.