Should Government Take over Health Care?

[jman507]

You are obviously not a conspiracy theorist, I am and don’t appologise to anyone for it. The insiders learned a big lesson from the inflation of the old Weimar republic. Now we have a system where the mere writing out of a mortage creates money out of nothing, it’s call the Fractional Reserve Banking Act of 1980. The amount in the money supply and the value of the money haver no connection whatsoever. Instead of being an idealogue, I going to be pragmatic and take advantage of the game the insiders are playing with us. Might as well, someday they will collapse our currency at will,and bing the world under one governement.

Well, I don’t think I’m too far from you. If insiders want to implode the economy they can in a given amount of time(, or people in power may just do it by doing stupid things.) If some want to do that, I’ll say be careful what you wish for. I doubt we could ever really function under a one world government, the world will be even more dangerous than it is now.

 

[SHANTARAM]

Funny. before the 1980 Fractional Reserve banking act came about, my family’s lifestyle was a heck of a lot better. Take me back to the 1970’s especially the early 70’s anyday. Healthcare was better, my family was able to take a vacation now and then, many food had better ingrediants in them back then, the good ingrediants got too expensive in the 80’s. Id say my lifestyle before that law was just fine.

1980 Fractional Reserve Banking Act? What? – are we just making stuff up now? There is no such act – nor any law during that time that had anything to do with fractional reserve banking.

Fractional reserve banking has been around for a long time – as in before the inception of the United States. And yes, there was and was possible for fractional reserve banking when currency was backed by silver and gold. Fractional reserve banking began when people were not using paper money but actual gold coins as money.

I would say your quips with then and now can be found to have other causes. Like good ingredients gone from food and filled with **** like high fructose corn syrup? You can probably blame corn subsidies for making corn irresistibly cheap to where it has infused itself into every part of our lives. Health care? You can probably blame the connection of health care to employment for some of the problems there – and not fractional reserve banking.

You have no idea what it would be like to rid ourselves of fractional reserve banking – and it wouldn’t be like the 70’s.

 

[tbtcom1213]

My response to this question is: Absolutely Not!
Why? We are responsible for ourselves and others if we so choose according to our means
The HealthCare Industry does not give a flying sh*t about you b/c all they care about is how much profit they’re generating each fiscal income statement. Therefore, insurance is a necessary evil. READ, and again I say READ the bill that has just passed the House of Reps. On the surface this bill may seem to go against masoschistic insurance companies but it in fact supports them. The bill says if you don’t buy health insurance you will be fined FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!! What happened to this land of oppurtunity? Now Americans are poisoned and taken advantage of by the media, health industry, false religions, deceptive politicians, et cetera!! And yet we are so complacent What a crying shame! Now that my rant has ended I will suggest my solutions

1. Pray as Jesus has taught us and to Jesus, Mary, Angels, Saints etc; Prepare your fields:byzsoc:
2. Take Action: NO MORE COMPLACENCY:thumbsup:
3. Support your fellow human being as your means allow: Ignorance and Selfishness is not an excuse
4. BE HEALTHY; I just can’t emphasize this enough Don’t eat what you wouldn’t feed your own children: Eat Green
5. Educate yourself: The fear of The Lord is the beginning of wisdom: Knowledge is power; You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free
6. Spread the message of enlightenment:thumbsup:
7. Defend yourself and your values
8. Don’t let others take advantage of you!
   Enhance yourself through prayer,education,traditional values,nutritional ethics, and KNOW YOUR RIGHTS*

WE ARE AMERICANS WE ARE CHRISTIAN-CATHOLICS AND OUR LIVES HAVE VALUE!!!

 

[aspawloski4th]

1980 Fractional Reserve Banking Act? What? – are we just making stuff up now? There is no such act – nor any law during that time that had anything to do with fractional reserve banking.

Fractional reserve banking has been around for a long time – as in before the inception of the United States. And yes, there was and was possible for fractional reserve banking when currency was backed by silver and gold. Fractional reserve banking began when people were not using paper money but actual gold coins as money.

I would say your quips with then and now can be found to have other causes. Like good ingredients gone from food and filled with **** like high fructose corn syrup? You can probably blame corn subsidies for making corn irresistibly cheap to where it has infused itself into every part of our lives. Health care? You can probably blame the connection of health care to employment for some of the problems there – and not fractional reserve banking.

You have no idea what it would be like to rid ourselves of fractional reserve banking – and it wouldn’t be like the 70’s.

Jimmy Carter signed the Freaction Reserve Banking act in 1980. Banks that did that type of thing before the act got liquidated by the FDIC. I watched a Cathoplic Credit union in the 1980s where I live get Liquidated by the feds for doing that very thing in my own neighborhood. Get your history straight before questioning history that I bring up.

 

[SHANTARAM]

Jimmy Carter signed the Freaction Reserve Banking act in 1980. Banks that did that type of thing before the act got liquidated by the FDIC. I watched a Cathoplic Credit union in the 1980s where I live get Liquidated by the feds for doing that very thing in my own neighborhood. Get your history straight before questioning history that I bring up.

Please link me to the text of this “act”.

What was that bank doing when you say they were doing “that type of thing”? If you mean they were practicing fractional reserve banking then you can say that about every bank in the USA. Every single one uses fractional reserve banking and always have.

I have my money on you not bringing up link to anything that has anything to do with fractional reserve banking from 1980, or any year around that.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Please link me to the text of this “act”.

What was that bank doing when you say they were doing “that type of thing”? If you mean they were practicing fractional reserve banking then you can say that about every bank in the USA. Every single one uses fractional reserve banking and always have.

I have my money on you not bringing up link to anything that has anything to do with fractional reserve banking from 1980, or any year around that.

Well for something I knew long before the internet, Ill have to go digging. My learning about things started long before the net. In the case of where I live, Grand Rapids Michigan. It was a Credit Union called St Mathew’s Credit union. When the feds took them over in the mid 1980’s All I heard over and over is that they were loaning out more money than they had, which is what fractional reserve banking is. Its legal for banks to do it, its highly illegal for Credit Unions to do it. The feds took St Mathews and gave it to Creditunion One, a less than ok CreditUnion based in the Detroit area. St Mathews Credit Union was set Up for Catholic Parish memebers on the westside and a bit of the northeast side of GrandRapids…

 

[SHANTARAM]

Well for something I knew long before the internet, Ill have to go digging. My learning about things started long before the net. In the case of where I live, Grand Rapids Michigan. It was a Credit Union called St Mathew’s Credit union. When the feds took them over in the mid 1980’s All I heard over and over is that they were loaning out more money than they had, which is what fractional reserve banking is. Its legal for banks to do it, its highly illegal for Credit Unions to do it. The feds took St Mathews and gave it to Creditunion One, a less than ok CreditUnion based in the Detroit area. St Mathews Credit Union was set Up for Catholic Parish memebers on the westside and a bit of the northeast side of GrandRapids…

Credit unions can and use fractional reserve banking. If they didn’t they wouldn’t have any business because to make any money they would have to lend at very high interest rates. They have the same exact reserve requirements as banks.

Reserve requirements are imposed on commercial banks, savings banks, savings and loan associations, credit unions, U.S. branches and agencies of foreign banks, Edge corporations, and agreement corporations.

federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm#table1

 

[wabrams]

The Constitution says that the government is there to provide for the defense of the nation and promote the general welfare. It is up to the individual to provide for him or herself.** Health care is not a “right.” A right is something the government can’t tell you not to do. Not something that the government assures you have**.

You mind if I use that in my signature line?

 

[gakroeger]

The Constitution says that the government is there to provide for the defense of the nation and promote the general welfare. It is up to the individual to provide for him or herself. Health care is not a “right.” A right is something the government can’t tell you not to do. Not something that the government assures you have.

Bold added…

This is a key point that many do not understand. The government is responsible for providing a safe environment for us the people to pursue Life, Liberty, and Happiness. They do not and should not have responsibility to guarantee any of these things.

The government cannot create wealth, the government has no money of its own, all the government can do is redistribute wealth. When the government redistributes wealth it punishes success and rewards failure.
If we all followed moral law there would be no need for government to become involved in taking from the rich and giving to the poor because we would do that on our own.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Bold added…

This is a key point that many do not understand. The government is responsible for providing a safe environment for us the people to pursue Life, Liberty, and Happiness. They do not and should not have responsibility to guarantee any of these things.

The government cannot create wealth, the government has no money of its own, all the government can do is redistribute wealth. When the government redistributes wealth it punishes success and rewards failure.
If we all followed moral law there would be no need for government to become involved in taking from the rich and giving to the poor because we would do that on our own.

Well it doesn’t happen on its own.

 

[gakroeger]

Well it doesn’t happen on its own.

It sure does happen on its own. Many American People donate generously to hundreds of charities and would probably donate more if government hadn’t “trained” people to think it was a government responsibility.

In 2008 it is estimated that the American people donated over $300,000,000 (that is Billions $). And although I cannot prove it, I suspect that a larger portion of this money got to the people that needed it more so the all of the government programs combined.

See this article at the Charity Navigator website

 

[TEPO]

Funny. before the 1980 Fractional Reserve banking act came about, my family’s lifestyle was a heck of a lot better…

We’re all still waiting for the link to the “1980 Fractional Reserve banking act”, that was “enacted” by Carter. Cough it up, that is unless you --made it up…

 

[TEPO]

It’s manipluated by one world government insiders, proof is gold doesn’t back it anymore.

How does the fact that gold dosent back it prove that a one world govornment manipulates it? have you ever thought that economic growth, and human labor have exceeded the value of gold?

The value of the dollar is far byond worth worrying about anymore.

So stop worrying then.

The money system is corrupt. Money is created out of nothing evertie a mortage is written, everytine a creditcard pays the merchant, and everytime the federal reserve buys a bond, when the Federal reserve buys a bond the money is created on a computer screen!

Welcome to the modern world. Its working. Who needs gold anymore… Its only shiny rocks.

I can’t believe people would bother worrying about defecits and monatary value with a dollar thats backed by nothing tangable. By constitutional standards all current money is counterfeit. With that being said, with a floating currancy, I say float that baby!

People worry about deficits because the value of the dollar does matter. Lets not screw up the floating currency balance. That would be counterproductive.

 

[aspawloski4th]

How does the fact that gold dosent back it prove that a one world govornment manipulates it? have you ever thought that economic growth, and human labor have exceeded the value of gold?

So stop worrying then.

Welcome to the modern world. Its working. Who needs gold anymore… Its only shiny rocks.

People worry about deficits because the value of the dollar does matter. Lets not screw up the floating currency balance. That would be counterproductive.

The place where I got the information about fractional reserv banking wa a radio show I listened to untill the radiostation that I heard it on driopped it. This was back in the mid 1990s I did not have internet till 1998, 2 to 3 years after listening to the radio show. The name of the show is the proophecy club, and the name of the speaker is Norm Franz, who’s occupation at that time was an economist. I have just mrere minutes ago email him about what I heard on the show. That radio show was on a station in Lasing Michigan, I live in grand rapids. I pulled out many stops to pick up an AM signal so far away by Michigan standards I await the refernces I inquired of by email. I anticipate either getting the email tomorrow or early next week. I have met some prophecy club speakers in person, while I don’t agree with them all the time, I do in my opinion judge them to alll be sincere.

 

[gakroeger]

Christian leaders issue ‘call of conscience’

More Church leaders speaking up…

Click here

 

[jimsafar]

FultonFish,

It kind of makes me laugh at how frank you are. I like that. It’s true though, the government doesn’t know how to handle their money. They’re running at this huge defecit. And then you have to admit, insurance companies DO know how to handle their money. They’re rolling in dough and kind of keeping the economy afloat because they invest in so many things. I really think that we need to stand behind Private Health Insurance companies to keep them going, to keep them around, to keep them…period.

 

[aspawloski4th]

FultonFish,

It kind of makes me laugh at how frank you are. I like that. It’s true though, the government doesn’t know how to handle their money. They’re running at this huge defecit. And then you have to admit, insurance companies DO know how to handle their money. They’re rolling in dough and kind of keeping the economy afloat because they invest in so many things. I really think that we need to stand behind Private Health Insurance companies to keep them going, to keep them around, to keep them…period.

Keep a group of companies no more honorable than the mob…OK.

 

[tjm190]

When gold backed the currency, we placed artificial value on gold and made paper that could be exchanged for gold. Now we’ve skipped a step and place artificial value on our paper. There’s ZERO substantive difference aside from convenience and this system allows for wealth creation.

An economist against fractional reserve banking is like a dietician opposed to fruits and vegetables.

 

[aspawloski4th]

When gold backed the currency, we placed artificial value on gold and made paper that could be exchanged for gold. Now we’ve skipped a step and place artificial value on our paper. There’s ZERO substantive difference aside from convenience and this system allows for wealth creation.

An economist against fractional reserve banking is like a dietician opposed to fruits and vegetables.

Funny in the 1970’s and before we didn’t have fractional reserve banking, are you saying things didn’t work back then?

 

[RWMorris]

The gold standard or the fractional reserve doesn’t have anything to do with the morality of government provided health care.

“For Congress to guarantee a right to health care, or any other good or service, whether a person can afford it or not, it must diminish someone else’s rights, namely their rights to their earnings. The reason is that Congress has no resources of its very own. Moreover, there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy giving them those resources. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces one to recognize that in order for government to give one American citizen a dollar, it must first, through intimidation, threats and coercion, confiscate that dollar from some other American. If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something that he did earn. To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept. A better term for new-fangled rights to health care, decent housing and food is wishes. If we called them wishes, I would be in agreement with most other Americans for I, too, wish that everyone had adequate health care, decent housing and nutritious meals. However, if we called them human wishes, instead of human rights, there would be confusion and cognitive dissonance. The average American would cringe at the thought of government punishing one person because he refused to be pressed into making someone else’s wish come true. None of my argument is to argue against charity. Reaching into one’s own pockets to assist his fellow man in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into someone else’s pockets to do so is despicable and deserves condemnation.”
– economist Walter E. Williams