Should Government Take over Health Care?

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The gold standard or the fractional reserve doesn’t have anything to do with the morality of government provided health care.

“For Congress to guarantee a right to health care, or any other good or service, whether a person can afford it or not, it must diminish someone else’s rights, namely their rights to their earnings. The reason is that Congress has no resources of its very own. Moreover, there is no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy giving them those resources. The fact that government has no resources of its very own forces one to recognize that in order for government to give one American citizen a dollar, it must first, through intimidation, threats and coercion, confiscate that dollar from some other American. If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something that he did earn. To argue that people have a right that imposes obligations on another is an absurd concept. A better term for new-fangled rights to health care, decent housing and food is wishes. If we called them wishes, I would be in agreement with most other Americans for I, too, wish that everyone had adequate health care, decent housing and nutritious meals. However, if we called them human wishes, instead of human rights, there would be confusion and cognitive dissonance. The average American would cringe at the thought of government punishing one person because he refused to be pressed into making someone else’s wish come true. None of my argument is to argue against charity. Reaching into one’s own pockets to assist his fellow man in need is praiseworthy and laudable. Reaching into someone else’s pockets to do so is despicable and deserves condemnation.”
– economist Walter E. Williams
The whole debate over gold standard came from being asked where the money was going to come from. I said since money is created out of nothing by banks mainly the Federal Reserve all the time, they can do it for this too. Your arguement about rights is far too simplistic for today. One could use it to get rid of the fire deptartment. Your triviializing healthcare into just another service and product gets my condemnation.
 
Confront the issues NOW…the bill will go through…did you do your part? Call your reps and tell them NO!!!
 
Source? We had bank runs in the 1930’s, which are not possible with full reserve banking.
Source? Common knowledge. Let a credit union try to do fractional reserve banking and see what will happen! I belonged to a Catholic credit union back in the mid 1980s it got closed for having only about 95% of reserves. The ownership of it was given to an outfit from accross the state. Many from the west side of Grand Rapids are still sore about it today.
 
No just using my common sense…God has been good to some of us!
Common sense says that any healthcare system where one could loose their home on account of something like an anurysm even though one is insured is a healthcare system that is broken.
 
Source? Common knowledge. Let a credit union try to do fractional reserve banking and see what will happen! I belonged to a Catholic credit union back in the mid 1980s it got closed for having only about 95% of reserves. The ownership of it was given to an outfit from accross the state. Many from the west side of Grand Rapids are still sore about it today.
So… you have no source?

As I said- everyone knows there were bank runs in the 1930’s, and since bank runs are impossible when the banks keep full reserves.
 
The whole debate over gold standard came from being asked where the money was going to come from. I said since money is created out of nothing by banks mainly the Federal Reserve all the time, they can do it for this too. Your arguement about rights is far too simplistic for today. One could use it to get rid of the fire deptartment. Your triviializing healthcare into just another service and product gets my condemnation.
The debate over the gold standard is trivial. The value of all the goods and services produced in the US each year now exeeds the value of all the gold in the world.

You contention that money is created out of nothing is sophomoric. The value of the goods and services produced determines the value of our money.

Easy credit expands the money supply too rapidly, leading to a decrease in its value.

The value of something is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it.

If we can’t afford healthcare before the government is involved, what make you think we can afford with the government’s help. The government has no money of its own. It all comes from us. Walter Williams description of how taxes work may seem simplistic to you, but that doesn’t make it any less true. The solution to our problem is really rather simple, but very difficult to implement. It starts with individual responsibility.

But I’m sure I lost you with that last statement.
 
Common sense says that any healthcare system where one could loose their home on account of something like an anurysm even though one is insured is a healthcare system that is broken.
Right now, most policies have caps. You pay a certain amount each month, and they are willing to pay out $X total.

If there are no caps, then what will happen to the premiums? They will go up.

If people with pre-existing conditions are included, what will happen to premiums? They will go up.

The “breakage” is with the medical pricing–prices of medical services have gone through the roof. Why?
  1. Restriction of services by rationing–you have to get government approval to put anything in place.
  2. Malpractice insurance I–we only hear about the enormous pay-outs, but every day the malpractice insurance companies settle because settling is cheaper and less scary than going to court. So doctors have to pay *huge *amounts for malpractice insurance (and we can thank John Edwards (D) for part of that increase)
  3. Malpractice insurance II–in order to reduce the chances of getting sued for big amounts, doctors require a lot more tests than they otherwise would need.
  4. Insurance–doctors have to pay to have all those forms filled out, seriously. And you need someone who knows what they are doing, so it isn’t cheap. Multiply that by what goes on in a hospital, and you’ll see part of why hospital costs are so high.
  5. For-profit hospitals–they have to cover the costs incurred by non-payers somehow. Non-profit hospitals *could *go the route of asking for donations like St Jude’s does, but a for-profit hospital cannot.
  6. Third-party payment–why shop around if someone else is paying for it? I heard a woman say flat out that when her children had colds, she’d take them to the doctor and get a prescription as that was cheaper for her than just getting OTC meds, but the insurance company had to pay for the doctor’s visit *and *the medicine.
And of course health insurance itself is higher-priced because of state mandates.

I really don’t see this bill fixing any problems, just creating new ones along with a bill that our children and grandchildren will have to pay off. Obviously I don’t think that everything is fine with our current system, just that I don’t think the current proposal, if it’s anything like the proposals we have actually had a chance to see, is the solution.
 
The debate over the gold standard is trivial. The value of all the goods and services produced in the US each year now exeeds the value of all the gold in the world.

You contention that money is created out of nothing is sophomoric. The value of the goods and services produced determines the value of our money.

Easy credit expands the money supply too rapidly, leading to a decrease in its value.

The value of something is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it.

If we can’t afford healthcare before the government is involved, what make you think we can afford with the government’s help. The government has no money of its own. It all comes from us. Walter Williams description of how taxes work may seem simplistic to you, but that doesn’t make it any less true. The solution to our problem is really rather simple, but very difficult to implement. It starts with individual responsibility.

But I’m sure I lost you with that last statement.
Idividual responsibility is good and right, but doesn’t cover many possibilities in real life. I the thread I started on national health care where I post an asrticle about an anurysm patient he took repsposibility and he and his family lost their home, that scenario gives immoral a bad name. Read the posts in these health care threads by Pathia, taking individual responsibility isn’t doing her one ioda of good. These things happen every day. Enough is enough! An end needs to be put to that immediately.
 
The government caused the high costs of healthcare. Now the government wants to “cure” the mess that they created!

Like small children, government always blames someone else for the problems that they created. Government blames the marketplace for all problems. Government also takes credit for anything and everything that goes right in the economy. The government is a liar!
 
youtube.com/watch?v=gFOnG9a1Pzw

An evildoer listens to wicked lips; A liar pays attention to a destructive tongue.
He who mocks the poor taunts his Maker; He who rejoices at calamity will not go unpunished. ~ Proverbs 17:4 - 6

He who oppresses the poor taunts his Maker, But he who is gracious to the needy honors Him. ~ Proverbs 14:31

24Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. ~ Luke 22:24-26

But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. “It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
~ Matthew 20:20-28

“The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the
whole taxes of the General Government are levied… Our revenues
liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus
applied to canals, roads, schools, etc., the farmer will see
his government supported, his children educated, and the face of
his country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich
alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his
earnings.” --Thomas Jefferson to Thaddeus Kosciusko, 1811.

"The poor who have neither property, friends, nor strength to
labor, are boarded in the houses of good farmers, to whom a
stipulated sum is annually paid. To those who are able to help
themselves a little, or have friends from whom they derive some
succor, inadequate however to their full maintenance,
supplementary aids are given which enable them to live
comfortably in their own houses, or in the houses of their
friends. --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia, 1782.
 
If the government does not fund, or require private funding, of abortions then I support government regulation of healthcare.

The airlines are regulated by the governement, and they work fine.
 
If the government does not fund, or require private funding, of abortions then I support government regulation of healthcare.

The airlines are regulated by the governement, and they work fine.
You must not travel much or read the newspapers.
 
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