Should hand holding at the Our Father be a cause for division among the Faithful?

[Matas]

I don’t believe that it should be a cause for division, but frequently it is. We have a guy in our men’s prayer group who is still angry, years after when he proposed at parish council that everyone hold hands during the Our Father. Our pastor refused to make this practice “the norm.” The guy is still mad.

What I’m getting out of this thread, from listening to others at my parish, and my personal experience is that if you are the only “non hand-holder” in a group of hand-holders, you will be looked down on. This is most unfortunate. “Non hand-holders” typically don’t go around slapping peoples’ hands apart. The “hand-holders” can get physical with you if you do not comply.

I am fortunate to belong to a parish that does not enforce “posture” during prayer, even if people in the crowd “are doing it all wrong.” I am not a hand-holder, though I have held others’ hands during prayer. I prefer not to hold hands. It is a distraction. It would be a major bummer if I was some place where those around me attempted to force me to hold hands when I do not want to. It would make me feel very badly, like I was being attacked by Pharisees or some other holier-than-thou types.

 

[Apryl]

She short answer is “no,” it should not be a cause of division.

If you don’t like hand holding, then simply bow your head, close your eyes, and clasp your hands together. This is a prayerful quiet posture that speaks volumes. I have done this at daily mass when I am sick and don’t want to infect anyone and no one has pestered me to hold their hand when I do this.

Neither action particularly bothers me.

In Peace,

Curious: What would your reaction be if, after closing your eyes, clasping your hands, and bowing your head, someone grabbed your hand to hold it during the Lord’s Prayer?

I’m asking, as I have actually experienced this.

 

[DaughterSorrow]

Wow, it’s never happened to me!!

If that happened, I would just bear it and handle it as charitably as I could. If it happened many time, I think I would talk to my pastor to see if he could ask the congregation to respect eachother’s wishes in this regard.

 

[agangbern]

No it really is forced. Some people don’t take no for an answer. I’ve given up and have caved in to hand holding. I don’t like it but I like even less someone grabbing my hand like I was their disobedient child (yes, people do that).

Really? Since the beginning I have never yet seen a hand grabbing like that you pictured. I suspect you simply invented it. Anyway, if ever it really should occur, I guess it is humbler just to be kind to “animals”.

 

[sphilomena]

I don’t believe that it should be a cause for division, but frequently it is. We have a guy in our men’s prayer group who is still angry, years after when he proposed at parish council that everyone hold hands during the Our Father. Our pastor refused to make this practice “the norm.” The guy is still mad.

What I’m getting out of this thread, from listening to others at my parish, and my personal experience is that if you are the only “non hand-holder” in a group of hand-holders, you will be looked down on. This is most unfortunate. “Non hand-holders” typically don’t go around slapping peoples’ hands apart. The “hand-holders” can get physical with you if you do not comply.

I am fortunate to belong to a parish that does not enforce “posture” during prayer, even if people in the crowd “are doing it all wrong.” I am not a hand-holder, though I have held others’ hands during prayer. I prefer not to hold hands. It is a distraction. It would be a major bummer if I was some place where those around me attempted to force me to hold hands when I do not want to. It would make me feel very badly, like I was being attacked by Pharisees or some other holier-than-thou types.

Your key word is “distraction”. That’s what it is for some of us. We have just had the Consecration and I prefer to continue my intimate time with Our Lord. As some have stated, there are people running around even when the prayers continue at the altar. I still say it is a focus on the horizontal, the community, vs. the vertical, God. Oh boy, here it comes!

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Well, when the US Bishops choose to ignore Rome’s instruction because someone is a public figure, you tell me how their example sets the pace for us, the faithful…Yet the bishops are **supposed to **listen to, and follow, the rules the Vatican sets forth (whether they agree or not). We are **supposed to **follow the bishops, since they are responsible for us in matters of faith and morals…

If we can’t be obedient in little things, how can we be expected to obey in the things that matter most…Doctrines of the faith etc… :ehh:

Jesus said that we are to be obedient to those in authority…(excluding matters of corruption). (1Thes 5:12 ff).

 

[THutch04]

What I don’t understand is seeing it as odd. When we are praying in any setting and we are with fellow Christians we are with family. Having a mind set that says, “anyone in my family touching my hands is odd,” is what is odd. We are a family, a community, the Bride of Christ. But we don’t touch hands because it creeps us out. Oh we’ll eat the flesh of Christ and drink His blood, but hold hands while praying - ewwwwwwwww; I could get cooties, or someone might think I’m a fag. Yeah OK ummm which sentiment is it that is odd again?

See, and then there’s people like me who don’t even hold hands with biological family members. I’m just not a touchy person. And to be honest, in all likelihood the person who is insisting on holding my hand has no desire to actually get to know me, yet they want to have me do something that in North American culture is generally reserved for people with whom you have an established relationship.

 

[stjosephtomasi]

That guidance has already been given. You can if you want and don’t have to if you don’t want.

thanks very much for this tidbit.

where / when / by whom was this guidance given?

what language was used to convey this message “you can if you want and you don’t have to if you don’t want”???

 

[agangbern]

thanks very much for this tidbit.

where / when / by whom was this guidance given?

what language was used to convey this message “you can if you want and you don’t have to if you don’t want”???

Where? That’s in this forum.
When? See the date the post was written.
By whom? By the Holy Spirit through the poster of that post.
Language? I see it in English.

Jesus said, "For he who is not against you is for you." (Mark 9:39)
The guidance given (subject hereof) is not contrary to any Church Teaching.
Therefore, that guidance is “for you”.

 

[agangbern]

Curious: What would your reaction be if, after closing your eyes, clasping your hands, and bowing your head, someone grabbed your hand to hold it during the Lord’s Prayer?

I’m asking, as I have actually experienced this.

Is the sequence of acts in the mass really like that? What immediately precedes the praying of the “Our Father” is “closing of eyes”, “clasping of hands” and “bowing your head”? I smell something with the above poster. What happened to the “Great Amen”?

 

[b_justb]

Every time this topic comes up some one posts the reference. I don’t have it but I have seen it several times on this board. You can find it easy enough as the hand holding during the Our Father threads are numerous. Just search on the topic here on CAF and you’ll have plenty to look at

thanks very much for this tidbit.

where / when / by whom was this guidance given?

what language was used to convey this message “you can if you want and you don’t have to if you don’t want”???

 

[Apryl]

Is the sequence of acts in the mass really like that? What immediately precedes the praying of the “Our Father” is “closing of eyes”, “clasping of hands” and “bowing your head”? I smell something with the above poster. What happened to the “Great Amen”?

The Great Amen is before the Sign of Peace.

What is it that you ‘smell’ with the above poster, as that would be me.

I see that you are not listed as being in the US, perhaps there is some language barrier.

 

[sphilomena]

The Great Amen is before the Sign of Peace.

What is it that you ‘smell’ with the above poster, as that would be me.

I see that you are not listed as being in the US, perhaps there is some language barrier.

Yes, Apryl, that was insulting and totally unnecessary. I do what you described!

 

[stjosephtomasi]

Where? That’s in this forum.
When? See the date the post was written.
By whom? By the Holy Spirit through the poster of that post.
Language? I see it in English.

Just as I suspected, it does not exist. Thanks anyway. (I always love posts that say “it’s there, but I just can’t find it.”)

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Hand holding is forced. I loathe it with a pure and white hot loathing. No, I’m not crabby and I’m normally very friendly, but there’s something about this that sets me off. I will never go to a church where you have to hold hands.

I feel the same way, but I’m not about to leave my parish. Who knows, maybe we’ll set an example by NOT holding hands during the Our Father, and by bowing during the Creed.

 

[agangbern]

The Great Amen is before the Sign of Peace.

What is it that you ‘smell’ with the above poster, as that would be me.

I see that you are not listed as being in the US, perhaps there is some language barrier.

The Great Amen is said immediately before The Lord’s Prayer is recited…
Oh, I’m sorry if ever that made you feel hurt. Maybe the sequence of the acts in the Holy Mass in your place is simply not the same as in my place.

 

[agangbern]

Curious: What would your reaction be if, after closing your eyes, clasping your hands, and bowing your head, someone grabbed your hand to hold it during the Lord’s Prayer?

I’m asking, as I have actually experienced this.

…

 

[Matas]

I’d like to suggest something that occured to me, and I hope that it helps put this whole hand-holding thing in perspective.

If you can, participate in a Catholic rite other than the Roman Catholic rite. Participate in more than one. You might get lost in the differences if you are accustomed to the Roman Catholic rite, but try and focus on what the similarities are.

If you can grasp what those similarities are, what makes us Catholics all in communion with each other, debates about “hand holding” evaporate just like hot air in the wind. You probably won’t be holding hands during the Our Father, either.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

thanks very much for this tidbit.

where / when / by whom was this guidance given?

what language was used to convey this message “you can if you want and you don’t have to if you don’t want”???

See, I agree with the thought that we need to obey the Pope, and our Bishops need to obey the Pope.

But that does not seem to be the case.

I want to know what the RIGHT thing is to do during Mass. Our RCIA teaching was very, very poor in that respect. We covered the Eucharist one week before we were to receive it for the first time.

Guidance from above. Else all dissolves into confusion and chaos. And let’s see, who loves chaos? Who might that be?

 

[Jerry-Jet]

If someone directly asked the Pope about Hand holding during the Our Father what would he say?

The pope answers many journalists questions.

Why is it that no one has ever asked him this question?

Maybe a good poll question would be: If you were a Catholic journalist who was granted an audience with the Pope or were a priest or bishop or cardinal who was stranded ojn a desert island with the pope: would you ask him this question?

Would the pope be surpised at how this is the most talked about abuse of the Mass on the Internet?

If someone asked Cardinal Arinze to ask the pope this question: what would Cardinal Arinze say?

If you write Cardinal Arinze a letter and ask him about it do you think he would answer?

If he did answer and said that it was OK to share it with other Catholics do you think other Catholics would adjust thier behavior on what he said?

If Pope Benedict XVI fell down at St. Peters and begged people to quit holding hands during the Our Father would they listen?

Exactly what would it take for people to abandon the exercise?