Should homosexual acts be illegal from a Catholic & Government perspective?

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“Given the starkness and the enduring nature of the disparate impact on gay and bisexual men, it is important to significantly reprioritize resources and attention on this community. The United States cannot reduce the number of HIV infections nationally without better addressing HIV among gay and bisexual men…Even though gay and bisexual men comprise only two percent of the U.S. population (4 percent of men)” – Obama (bold emphasis given in Obama’s 2010 Whitehouse report)

Source:
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
 
…The demand that a law be rigorously enforced to the max or else be discarded is not and has never been consistent with Catholic moral teaching re: the common good and the duty of the state. It is the state’s responsibility to enact justice when an evil is done, where justice can be enacted in a way that does not conflict with the common good and is proportionate to the evil and so on, not to anticipate and prevent every possible evil regardless of the costs.
really? I expect laws against murder and rape to be rigorously enforced and I believe, without consulting the CCC, that this is in line with moral teaching. because these laws and the crimes they’re trying to permit are important. so if eradicating sodomy is that critical, then you want anti-sodomy laws enforced in the same way (which may involve snitches and police raids into private homes). or are you saying sodomy isn’t worth investigating and prosecuting unless it causes scandal? then its not all that important.
 
:nope:

Wrong as usual.

Where do you read that the Proctologist deals only with men. Is it your belief that Proctologists deal only with men? Men and women have need for a Proctologist.
I didn’t say that though, did I? I proposed a scenario where such a professional might deal only with men. Nowhere did I say that proctology was in any way a gender specific speciality.

One would assume that a female proctologist would be more suitable for female patients in any case and a male proctologist for male patients, on the basis of decorum and patient comfort.
Notice the study says…
This is typically how clinical results of a finding or findings are reported, either in time or with a large number collected in time. This is common medical practice and reporting. Unlike the APA that went on the internet asking for people harmed by Reparative Therapy, producing junk, this is just what the guy was doing.
This represented 10% of the practice and the findings are reported. Clearly, as usual, your lack of medical background causes you to insult what you do not know.
Facts are facts. Proctologists are Proctologists. The device that prevents promiscuity should be used by everyone not just the gay population.😃
I agree… people should use their brains and not be promiscuous. But that wasn’t the point and again I’m certain you know it. The point was the prevention of transmission of disease amongst people who are promiscuous. Even His Holiness Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI knows what I’m going on about… I’m sure you do too. You’re just being deliberately obtuse again.
 
Anti-sodomy laws were the norm for the vast majority of human civilizations for the vast majority of human history, so we should perhaps not be too quick to deride them as garbage.
So were pro-slavery laws.

The existence of laws prohibiting or allowing certain things in the past does not necessarily mean they were good laws.
 
So were pro-slavery laws.

The existence of laws prohibiting or allowing certain things in the past does not necessarily mean they were good laws.
The chattel slavery laws of the United States were about forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do and whipping them, cutting off their toes for running away, etc. Who is forcing who to commit sodomy, and when have sodomy laws in the United States resulted in whipping someone, cutting off their toes, etc.? You are trying to present a straw man argument. 🙂

“Given the starkness and the enduring nature of the disparate impact on gay and bisexual men, it is important to significantly reprioritize resources and attention on this community. The United States cannot reduce the number of HIV infections nationally without better addressing HIV among gay and bisexual men…Even though gay and bisexual men comprise only two percent of the U.S. population (4 percent of men)” – Obama (bold emphasis given in Obama’s 2010 Whitehouse report)

Source:
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
 
for much of human history, there was no effective rein on how the government could extract evidence to convict, by denunciation, torture, threats, etc. now we, at least in the USofA, don’t let the government prosecute ordinary crimes that way.

so how do you propose the government prosecute consensual sodomy where neither participant will testify? one poster here is a fan of police raids, breaking down bedroom doors and peeping toms. are you cool with that?

this is not a rhetorical question. and law that exists and is unenforceable is this fundamental way just incites contempt for the legal system as a whole.

F/
👍

Laws have no business involving themselves in the private sphere of morals where neither party is harmed or abused.

Obviously ‘sodomy’ is still illegal ‘in private’ where one of the parties is forced to participate in it… that is, of course, called rape.
 
So were pro-slavery laws.

The existence of laws prohibiting or allowing certain things in the past does not necessarily mean they were good laws.
The chattel slavery laws of the United States were about forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do and whipping them, cutting off their toes for running away, etc. Who is forcing who to commit sodomy, and when have sodomy laws in the United States resulted in whipping someone, cutting off their toes, etc.? You are trying to present a straw man argument. 🙂

“Given the starkness and the enduring nature of the disparate impact on gay and bisexual men, it is important to significantly reprioritize resources and attention on this community. The United States cannot reduce the number of HIV infections nationally without better addressing HIV among gay and bisexual men…Even though gay and bisexual men comprise only two percent of the U.S. population (4 percent of men)” – Obama (bold emphasis given in Obama’s 2010 Whitehouse report)

Source:
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
 
“Roughly three-fourths of HIV/AIDS cases in the United States are among men, the majority of whom are gay and bisexual men.” - Obama

Source:
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
The incidence of AIDS in the heterosexual population worldwide vastly exceeds the incidence of AIDS in homosexuals.

You might as well say that the incidence of AIDS in the AIDS Hospice for Homosexual Men down the road suggests 100% of homosexuals have AIDS. It is not only statistically meaningless to the population at large, it is also a lie. We’re supposed to be concerned about truth, aren’t we?
 
The incidence of AIDS in the heterosexual population worldwide vastly exceeds the incidence of AIDS in homosexuals.
It’s interesting that you don’t want to look at the proportions. 🙂

“Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) represent approximately 2% of the US population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV. In 2010, MSM accounted for 63% of all new HIV infections” – CDC

Sources:
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
WebMD
California School of Professional Psychology
 
The chattel slavery laws of the United States were about forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do and whipping them, cutting off their toes for running away, etc. Who is forcing who to commit sodomy, and when have sodomy laws in the United States resulted in whipping someone, cutting off their toes, etc.? You are trying to present a straw man argument. 🙂

“Given the starkness and the enduring nature of the disparate impact on gay and bisexual men, it is important to significantly reprioritize resources and attention on this community. The United States cannot reduce the number of HIV infections nationally without better addressing HIV among gay and bisexual men…Even though gay and bisexual men comprise only two percent of the U.S. population (4 percent of men)” – Obama (bold emphasis given in Obama’s 2010 Whitehouse report)

Source:
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
The point I was making was that the existence of a law in the past does not necessarily mean it was a good law. The poster I was replying to was hanging his argument that because the law penalised sodomy in the past then that meant there was something in it. That is a ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ fallacy.

For centuries women were denied the right to own property or vote. It is only relatively recently that this has been removed (and even then, not everywhere in the world)… does that mean we should go back to the time when women were denied these rights? Some people still believe the woman’s place is in the home, after all…
 
The point I was making was that the existence of a law in the past does not necessarily mean it was a good law. The poster I was replying to was hanging his argument that because the law penalised sodomy in the past then that meant there was something in it. That is a ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ fallacy.

For centuries women were denied the right to own property or vote. It is only relatively recently that this has been removed (and even then, not everywhere in the world)… does that mean we should go back to the time when women were denied these rights? Some people still believe the woman’s place is in the home, after all…
You have yet to address the vast proportional difference of AIDS cases among “gay” and bisexual men VS the rest of the population. 🙂
 
It’s interesting that you don’t want to look at the proportions. 🙂

“Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) represent approximately 2% of the US population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV. In 2010, MSM accounted for 63% of all new HIV infections” – CDC

Sources:
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
WebMD
California School of Professional Psychology
I’m talking about the human population, not a particular country’s subset of the human population. Your implication is that HIV/AIDS is a ‘gay disease’. It isn’t. Any suggestion to the contrary is a lie and a misrepresentation. Catholics should not mislead about such important matters.
 
I’m talking about the human population, not a particular country’s subset of the human population. Your implication is that HIV/AIDS is a ‘gay disease’. It isn’t. Any suggestion to the contrary is a lie and a misrepresentation. Catholics should not mislead about such important matters.
You are acting like you think I’m the one who is in charge of the CDC and like I’m the one in charge of the White House. I didn’t make up those statistics. If you don’t like them, sorry. But it is what it is. 🙂

“Disparities in HIV infection also exist between gay and bisexual men and heterosexual populations. Recently, the CDC announced that gay and bisexual men in the United States are 44 to 86 times more likely to become infected with HIV than heterosexual men, and 40 to 77 times more likely to become infected than women.” – Obama

Sources:
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
WebMD
California School of Professional Psychology
 
You are acting like you think I’m the one who is in charge of the CDC and like I’m the one in charge of the White House. I didn’t make up those statistics. If you don’t like them, sorry. But it is what it is. 🙂

“Disparities in HIV infection also exist between gay and bisexual men and heterosexual populations. Recently, the CDC announced that gay and bisexual men in the United States are 44 to 86 times more likely to become infected with HIV than heterosexual men, and 40 to 77 times more likely to become infected than women.” – Obama

Sources:
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
WebMD
California School of Professional Psychology
We’re talking about morals and general approach from a Catholic standpoint, bearing in mind that the Catholic Church is a global organisation.

Or is the thread now entitled ‘The US Government should criminalise homosexual acts?’ - it wasn’t the last time I looked.
 
Anti-sodomy laws were the norm for the vast majority of human civilizations for the vast majority of human history, so we should perhaps not be too quick to deride them as garbage.
How is this still considered a valid argument? Many civilizations considered laws punishing women for being witches justified. That doesn’t mean we should also consider those laws. I rather doubt those older civilizations had a realistic concept of disease or were aware of the facts about disease, let alone the health risks of sodomy.
 
We’re talking about morals and general approach from a Catholic standpoint, bearing in mind that the Catholic Church is a global organisation.

Or is the thread now entitled ‘The US Government should criminalise homosexual acts?’ - it wasn’t the last time I looked.
Ok. If you want to ignore the fact that “gay” and bisexual men in the United States are 44 to 86 times more likely to become infected with HIV than heterosexual men, and 40 to 77 times more likely to become infected than women then fine. 🙂
 
Apparently, not enough or there wouldn’t such a great difference in AIDS cases between “gay” and bisexual men and the rest of the population.
Anal sex has higher transmission rates, if only a quarter of gays engaged in it regularly there would still be a higher rate.
Anti-sodomy laws were the norm for the vast majority of human civilizations for the vast majority of human history, so we should perhaps not be too quick to deride them as garbage.
Except for many countries without judeo-christian roots
I see them operating much the same way that morality clauses for Catholic school teachers do. If you become a Catholic school teacher you are, in many dioceses, expected to uphold some basic standards of morality, avoiding fornication, adultery, divorce, etc. This is because you have the immediate care of younger souls and it’s expected that you won’t scandalize them by your life.

This doesn’t mean Vatican ninjas dispatched from the chancery will bust down your doors in the middle of the night and ransack your house looking for birth control pills. The contracts are typically enforced after the fact, i.e., when scandal has already erupted, such as when an unmarried teacher suddenly becomes pregnant or starts shacking up with her boyfriend, etc. They exist, in other words, both to provide a deterrent against scandalous behavior and to minimize scandalize when it erupts.

In a similar way, ideally, anti-sodomy laws would be enforced only against people who behave in an indiscrete and scandalous fashion. In other words, if you wanted to avoid running afoul of anti-sodomy laws and genuinely couldn’t bring yourself to repent of sodomy, the solution would be not to be caught in the act of sodomy, i.e., to take precautions so that you are not discovered. This is literally just as good, from a “common good” perspective, as sodomy not existing at all, since in either case the risk of scandal is 0.

The demand that a law be rigorously enforced to the max or else be discarded is not and has never been consistent with Catholic moral teaching re: the common good and the duty of the state. It is the state’s responsibility to enact justice when an evil is done, where justice can be enacted in a way that does not conflict with the common good and is proportionate to the evil and so on, not to anticipate and prevent every possible evil regardless of the costs.
Some people find it scandalous for an older male to be unmarried because if isn’t with a woman he must be with someone or something else.
“Given the starkness and the enduring nature of the disparate impact on gay and bisexual men, it is important to significantly reprioritize resources and attention on this community. The United States cannot reduce the number of HIV infections nationally without better addressing HIV among gay and bisexual men…Even though gay and bisexual men comprise only two percent of the U.S. population (4 percent of men)” – Obama (bold emphasis given in Obama’s 2010 Whitehouse report)

Source:
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
He is pandering.
It’s interesting that you don’t want to look at the proportions. 🙂

“Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) represent approximately 2% of the US population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV. In 2010, MSM accounted for 63% of all new HIV infections” – CDC

Sources:
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
President Obama’s National HIV/AIDS Strategy for the the the United States 2010 White House Report
WebMD
California School of Professional Psychology
Non sequitur
 
“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.” - California School of Professional Psychology

Source:
California School of Professional Psychology
 
Hasn’t this horse finally been beaten to death?

The US is not going to make it illegal. Get used to it and move on!

The obsession with homosexuals on CAF is going beyond the absurd. :eek:
 
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