Should homosexual behaviour be criminalised?

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I am against homosexual marriage and think it is sinful, but criminalizing…no. It is unenforceable and would create a massive burden on the state and the only thing that can cause is problems, so no. Just like st thomas Aquinas said only acts that injures one person or his her rights, should be penalized. Mere morality can’t be regulated. Otherwise it would turn the government into a dictatorship.
 
No need to criminalize homosexual behavior. I would just be happy to go a few weeks without hearing any propaganda promoting the homosexual agenda.
 
What a deeply offensive statement to make.

You might want to check the bible about judging others.
“Why do you damnable sodomites pursue the heights of ecclesiastical dignity with such fiery ambition?” - St. Peter Damian, The Letters of Peter Damian
"All sodomites—men and women—died all over the earth, as Saint Jerome said in his commentary on the psalm ‘The light was born for the just.’ This made it clear that He was born to reform nature and promote chastity.” - St. Bonaventure Sermon XXI—In Nativitate Domini
 
Ohmygosh, no…of course it was not good!!

We can’t criminalize a sex act just because it goes against the rules of one group’s religion! There are many religions in this country and world…and many people who are not religious at all…and for these millions of people there is nothing wrong with homosexuality–which has been around for thousands of years-- it is considered very natural.
You do realise that these “millions of people” are the vast minority, even in your own words, right? When it was prohibited, it did not say in the law “Because God doesn’t like it” or “The Bible says”. It was seen as unnatural. As for the thousands of years… so has Natural Marriage, but somehow that argument isn’t permitted there. Hmm…
People in these groups should not be forced to follow someone else’s religious beliefs on this…they should not have to go to jail because they are not following another group’s doctrines.
Thank goodness we were enlightened enough to trash this law.
Ah, the “Enlightenment”. The Great Arrogance of history.
 
@Rocky24
  1. You do of course know that a man who has “unnatural” sex with a woman is also a sodomite, so it is not a very accurate description of homosexuals.
  2. Not all homosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
  3. Not all those that do have a sexual relationship engage in sodomy.
  4. CaptainAmerica’s description of homosexuals as sodomites is akin to calling all husbands adulterers because some commit adultery: or calling all men onanists, because some men struggle with masturbation.
This reduces a whole class of people to a sin.

Therefore this description is offensive, inaccurate, and judgmental.

It also carries the whole weight of the Old Testament destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah with it: something Jesus chose NOT to do in the New Testament.

I believe that we are judged as we judge.
 
Can we all just read some Aquinas and get along here?

This idea that the government is a magical moral arbiter that has to criminalize every little thing is absolutely puerile. You don’t like sodomy. I don’t either. It’s immoral. That doesn’t mean we have to go crying to Holy Mother State to make it a crime. It is not an act of violence against people or property, let it be.
Thank you for some common sense!
 
@Rocky24
  1. You do of course know that a man who has “unnatural” sex with a woman is also a sodomite, so it is not a very accurate description of homosexuals.
  2. Not all homosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
  3. Not all those that do have a sexual relationship engage in sodomy.
  4. CaptainAmerica’s description of homosexuals as sodomites is akin to calling all husbands adulterers because some commit adultery: or calling all men onanists, because some men struggle with masturbation.
This reduces a whole class of people to a sin.

Therefore this description is offensive, inaccurate, and judgmental.

It also carries the whole weight of the Old Testament destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah with it: something Jesus chose NOT to do in the New Testament.

I believe that we are judged as we judge.
:thumbsup:THIS MAKES SENSE!👍
 
Not all homosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
Not all heterosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
Not all who are bisexual engage in sexual relationships.
Not all who are inclined to adultery engage in adultery.
Not all who are attracted to children engage in molesting children.
Not all who who are attracted to BDSM engage in such practices.
Not all who are attracted to public nudity go naked in public.

Perhaps it would be wise, therefore, if we all would just refrain from identifying ourselves with our sexual temptations.
 
Not all homosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
Not all heterosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
Not all who are bisexual engage in sexual relationships.
Not all who are inclined to adultery engage in adultery.
Not all who are attracted to children engage in molesting children.
Not all who who are attracted to BDSM engage in such practices.
Not all who are attracted to public nudity go naked in public.

Perhaps it would be wise, therefore, if we all would just refrain from identifying ourselves with our sexual temptations.
👍:bowdown::clapping:
 
Not all homosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
Not all heterosexuals engage in sexual relationships.
Not all who are bisexual engage in sexual relationships.
Not all who are inclined to adultery engage in adultery.
Not all who are attracted to children engage in molesting children.
Not all who who are attracted to BDSM engage in such practices.
Not all who are attracted to public nudity go naked in public.

Perhaps it would be wise, therefore, if we all would just refrain from identifying ourselves with our sexual temptations.
I agree: that’s why I am opposed to the “gay movement” and the “gaying” of our culture.

If the state should not interfere in the nation’s bedrooms, it also behooves us to keep our bedroom behaviour out of the eyes of our neighbours.

If you want to masturbate, commit adultery, engage in fornication or homosexual behaviour then please keep it private, and don’t politicize it.

But if the state wants to interfere in these activities, then as a married man I am worried that the state will also want to tell me whether or not to use contraception, and how many children to have.
 
I’m of two minds on the subject.

First, I really have no interest in the government monitoring the bedroom activity of anybody. That is not anybody’s business, as far as I can see.

Having said that, I have little or no tolerance for those who would promote sodomy as natural or normal…this is not to say that I have interest in pushing something on somebody, but, at the same time, I don’t want that pushed on either my family or me.

St. Thomas Aquinas stated in Summa 2-2-154 a good taxonomy on the subject. He validates the decomposition of lust into “simple fornication, adultery, incest, seduction, rape, and the unnatural vice.” (grouping sacrilege into a species of “adultery”)

He identifies (A11) “unnatural vice” as follows:
As stated above (A6,9) wherever there occurs a special kind of deformity whereby the venereal act is rendered unbecoming, there is a determinate species of lust. This may occur in two ways: First, through being contrary to right reason, and this is common to all lustful vices; secondly, because, in addition, it is contrary to the natural order of the venereal act as becoming to the human race: and this is called “the unnatural vice.” This may happen in several ways. First, by procuring pollution, without any copulation, for the sake of venereal pleasure: this pertains to the sin of “uncleanness” which some call “effeminacy.” Secondly, by copulation with a thing of undue species, and this is called “bestiality.” Thirdly, by copulation with an undue sex, male with male, or female with female, as the Apostle states (Romans 1:27): and this is called the “vice of sodomy.” Fourthly, by not observing the natural manner of copulation, either as to undue means, or as to other monstrous and bestial manners of copulation.
He then (A12) identifies “unnatural vice” as being a greater sin than that of incest or the rape of a virgin:
In every genus, worst of all is the corruption of the principle on which the rest depend. Now the principles of reason are those things that are according to nature, because reason presupposes things as determined by nature, before disposing of other things according as it is fitting. This may be observed both in speculative and in practical matters. Wherefore just as in speculative matters the most grievous and shameful error is that which is about things the knowledge of which is naturally bestowed on man, so in matters of action it is most grave and shameful to act against things as determined by nature. **Therefore, since by the unnatural vices man transgresses that which has been determined by nature with regard to the use of venereal actions, it follows that in this matter this sin is gravest of all. **After it comes incest, which, as stated above (Article 9), is contrary to the natural respect which we owe persons related to us.

With regard to the other species of lust they imply a transgression merely of that which is determined by right reason, on the presupposition, however, of natural principles. Now it is more against reason to make use of the venereal act not only with prejudice to the future offspring, but also so as to injure another person besides. Wherefore simple fornication, which is committed without injustice to another person, is the least grave among the species of lust. Then, it is a greater injustice to have intercourse with a woman who is subject to another’s authority as regards the act of generation, than as regards merely her guardianship. Wherefore adultery is more grievous than seduction. And both of these are aggravated by the use of violence. Hence rape of a virgin is graver than seduction, and rape of a wife than adultery. And all these are aggravated by coming under the head of sacrilege, as stated above (10, ad 2).
So, using Thomas’ reasoning, if rape and incest are criminalized, then “unnatural vice” should be, as well (after all, if a lesser vice is a crime, by all means, the greater vice should be, as well).
Now human law is framed for a number of human beings, the majority of whom are not perfect in virtue. Wherefore human laws do not forbid all vices, from which the virtuous abstain, but only the more grievous vices, from which it is possible for the majority to abstain; and chiefly those that are to the hurt of others, without the prohibition of which human society could not be maintained: thus human law prohibits murder, theft and such like. (S. Th 2-1-96-2)
To be consistent, though, if sodomy is criminalized due to this reasoning, then so should “procurement of pollution without copulation.”
 
What do you mean by sodomy - there are threads on CAF where married couples ask if anal sex is OK as long as the man “completes” in the appropriate er… place.

As far as I know anal sex with one’s wife is still sodomy, but apparently it may or may not be sinful depending on which authority on listens to.
 
I’m of two minds on the subject.

First, I really have no interest in the government monitoring the bedroom activity of anybody. That is not anybody’s business, as far as I can see.

Having said that, I have little or no tolerance for those who would promote sodomy as natural or normal…this is not to say that I have interest in pushing something on somebody, but, at the same time, I don’t want that pushed on either my family or me.

St. Thomas Aquinas stated in Summa 2-2-154 a good taxonomy on the subject. He validates the decomposition of lust into “simple fornication, adultery, incest, seduction, rape, and the unnatural vice.” (grouping sacrilege into a species of “adultery”)

He identifies (A11) “unnatural vice” as follows:
As stated above (A6,9) wherever there occurs a special kind of deformity whereby the venereal act is rendered unbecoming, there is a determinate species of lust. This may occur in two ways: First, through being contrary to right reason, and this is common to all lustful vices; secondly, because, in addition, it is contrary to the natural order of the venereal act as becoming to the human race: and this is called “the unnatural vice.” This may happen in several ways. First, by procuring pollution, without any copulation, for the sake of venereal pleasure: this pertains to the sin of “uncleanness” which some call “effeminacy.” Secondly, by copulation with a thing of undue species, and this is called “bestiality.” Thirdly, by copulation with an undue sex, male with male, or female with female, as the Apostle states (Romans 1:27): and this is called the “vice of sodomy.” Fourthly, by not observing the natural manner of copulation, either as to undue means, or as to other monstrous and bestial manners of copulation.
He then (A12) identifies “unnatural vice” as being a greater sin than that of incest or the rape of a virgin:
In every genus, worst of all is the corruption of the principle on which the rest depend. Now the principles of reason are those things that are according to nature, because reason presupposes things as determined by nature, before disposing of other things according as it is fitting. This may be observed both in speculative and in practical matters. Wherefore just as in speculative matters the most grievous and shameful error is that which is about things the knowledge of which is naturally bestowed on man, so in matters of action it is most grave and shameful to act against things as determined by nature. Therefore, since by the unnatural vices man transgresses that which has been determined by nature with regard to the use of venereal actions, it follows that in this matter this sin is gravest of all. After it comes incest, which, as stated above (Article 9), is contrary to the natural respect which we owe persons related to us.

With regard to the other species of lust they imply a transgression merely of that which is determined by right reason, on the presupposition, however, of natural principles. Now it is more against reason to make use of the venereal act not only with prejudice to the future offspring, but also so as to injure another person besides. Wherefore simple fornication, which is committed without injustice to another person, is the least grave among the species of lust. Then, it is a greater injustice to have intercourse with a woman who is subject to another’s authority as regards the act of generation, than as regards merely her guardianship. Wherefore adultery is more grievous than seduction. And both of these are aggravated by the use of violence. Hence rape of a virgin is graver than seduction, and rape of a wife than adultery. And all these are aggravated by coming under the head of sacrilege, as stated above (10, ad 2).
So, using Thomas’ reasoning, if rape and incest are criminalized, then “unnatural vice” should be, as well (after all, if a lesser vice is a crime, by all means, the greater vice should be, as well).
Now human law is framed for a number of human beings, the majority of whom are not perfect in virtue. Wherefore human laws do not forbid all vices, from which the virtuous abstain, but only the more grievous vices, from which it is possible for the majority to abstain; and chiefly those that are to the hurt of others, without the prohibition of which human society could not be maintained: thus human law prohibits murder, theft and such like. (S. Th 2-1-96-2)
To be consistent, though, if sodomy is criminalized due to this reasoning, then so should “procurement of pollution without copulation.”
Mark,

It would appear that, by the “unnatural vice”, Thomas includes masturbation, as well as sodomy. Your argument, then, would seem to imply that we should make masturbation illegal.
 
Mark,

It would appear that, by the “unnatural vice”, Thomas includes masturbation, as well as sodomy. Your argument, then, would seem to imply that we should make masturbation illegal.
Please note my comment earlier: *To be consistent, though, if sodomy is criminalized due to this reasoning, then so should “procurement of pollution without copulation.”

*I’m not advocating that purely Thomistic approach, though. Some previous people mentioned that the “Dumb Ox” would not have made it illegal; I was just trying to actually review his words.

Again, as I said at the top of my earlier post, I don’t have any interest in going into peoples’ bedrooms to monitor their private activities. However, at the same time, I do not believe that it should be pushed onto society as morally neutral or good, in any way, shape, or form (as is the norm right now).
 
Please note my comment earlier: *To be consistent, though, if sodomy is criminalized due to this reasoning, then so should “procurement of pollution without copulation.”

*I’m not advocating that purely Thomistic approach, though. Some previous people mentioned that the “Dumb Ox” would not have made it illegal; I was just trying to actually review his words.

Again, as I said at the top of my earlier post, I don’t have any interest in going into peoples’ bedrooms to monitor their private activities. However, at the same time, I do not believe that it should be pushed onto society as morally neutral or good, in any way, shape, or form (as is the norm right now).
Gee, I totally missed that last line in your post! 😊
 
If adults want to do this with other consenting adults, then that is what happens. Homosexual behaviour should be marginalised as tobacco use it. You can be secular as I am and see the harms of homosexual and lesbian behaviour as you can see the harms of tobacco use. Many homosexuals and lesbians suffered child molestation and had this not happened, the likelihood is less of them committing homosexual behaviours. There possibly are other causes such as genetics or biology, but there are also proven biological reasons for tobacco use.

If they discover cure for homosexuality, then this topic becomes a moot point. Uganda has laws against homosexuality and their reasoning is secular. Ugandan citizens are usually not telling other nations what their laws on homosexuality should be so we have no right to tell Uganda how to run their nation.
 
I agree: that’s why I am opposed to the “gay movement” and the “gaying” of our culture.

If the state should not interfere in the nation’s bedrooms, it also behooves us to keep our bedroom behaviour out of the eyes of our neighbours.

If you want to masturbate, commit adultery, engage in fornication or homosexual behaviour then please keep it private, and don’t politicize it.

But if the state wants to interfere in these activities, then as a married man I am worried that the state will also want to tell me whether or not to use contraception, and how many children to have.
Masturbation.
Adultery
Fornication.
Homosexual sexual relations.

Each are sins regardless of the political policy in relation to such matters.
 
Yes, I believe it should be a crime if it’s done in public. What you do behind closed doors is your own business, but when you start doing it publicly and openly, I think it should be punishable by law. Of course, every person deserves a fair trial and there need to be reliable witnesses who can testify that it happened. My understanding of homosexuality is based on the Sharia ; the Qur’an prescribes the penalty of lashing a fornicator if he/she is caught in the act.
 
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