Should homosexual people be allowed to visit their partners in hospital when it's 'family only'?

[Lethe]

Voiced quite well in this : youtube.com/watch?v=GoWNnt4Fdh4

(Hear it through, if it offends you it’ll be over soon enough anyway… The point that hits home with me is that someone could be refused to see their partner of years and years because theyre not married, though they would happily be married if they could)

 

[Petergee]

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Voiced quite well in this : youtube.com/watch?v=GoWNnt4Fdh4

(Hear it through, if it offends you it’ll be over soon enough anyway… The point that hits home with me is that someone could be refused to see their partner of years and years because theyre not married, though they would happily be married if they could)

Lethe:

The Curate at my church used to be a Physicians Assistant. From 1982 to 1999 (when he was forced to retire), his practice consisted almost exclusively of AIDS patients. He was treating people with AIDS when they called it GRID and didn’t know how it was transmitted, because they hadn’t isolated the Virus or developed a test to detect it.

One reason I attend the parish I attend was because when our Curate was Ordained to the Priesthood, some 30 former patients of his came to his Ordination, some of whom could had been alive for over 15 years thanks to this man’s medical, emotional and spiritual care. Another was that, when a famous Protestant Preacher in our area REFUSED to baptize a man because he was dying of AIDS, my Pastor bit only baptized him, but accepted him into the congregation.:clapping:

He’s told me about the emotional toll of losing 5-6 patients/week at the height of the epidemic, and how he ;ppls forward to seeing many of his patients again. He’s also told me how some parents could be “absolute s***s” towards the friends and partners of his patients, even while their sons were dying. He’s told me of how parents would disown their dying sons and then leave, refusing to allow their friends and lovers the consolation of seeing them or of having a memorial service - They would actually come back when the sons they had disowned had died and retrieve them so they could take them our of state so the people who loved them would be completely bereft.:crying:

I have to admit that I don’t know how I would deal with such cruelty.:banghead:

Much of that has largely been solved thanks a combination of legislation & court cases. Churches have also done a better job of hammering home the OLD Christian Notion of HATE the Sin which so damages the person & mars the “Icon of God”, but LOVE the Sinner for whom Christ died and who God has branded into the Palm of His hand… In addition, people who have “Significant Others” of any sex can give their “Significant Others” the “Durable Medical Power of Attorney” using any of 3 to 5 forms (depending on jurisdiction) either BEFORE going into the Hospital, during INTAKE or AFTER being settled into a room…

The law isn’t perfect, but the Hospitals which would not treat long-term same-sex lovers and partners of patients in ICU as if they were “Family Members” would be few and far between. You’d probably have better luck finding completely honest Congresspersons.:sad_yes:

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[juliamajor]

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

That’s cold and cruel.It may be amazing to some but gay people actually do more then have sex.they can “actually” love somebody.And yes I think someone in a hospital situation should be allowed to see anyone he damn pleases.To limit to just"family" doesn’t take into consideration even very close friendships that could be vital to recuperation.I cannot see Jesus turning his back on someone because he was gay.Gay people are the lepers of our time-do you really think Jesus would reject them?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I’ve always been taught as a nurse that it is not my place to judge people when delivering health care. I’m there to provide the care and meet the needs of the patient. That does not mean I personally condone same-sex relationships or agree with them, but those opinions are kept to myself . When I provide care it is without predjudice. I think most hospitals today recognize this and allow significant others in the patient’s life to visit.

However, in most states, unless there is some legal document assigning a person as one to make health care decisions on behalf of a patient, it is usually the family who makes the decisions. And I have seen major problems arise when there is a conflict between families and the “significant other” in a person’s life, when the patient is unconscious or in a condition where he cannot express his wishes. The family usually prevails in these cases because that is how the law is set up. Sometimes they will not allow the SO to even visit the patient.

If I had a family member that was in such a relationship, I personally would allow them to visit. Although I personally do not condone homosexuality, I am not in control of that area of their life, I am not going to change things, and I would recognize the fact that there is an emotional attachment between these two people, they do love each other, and it would be cruel to deny them the right to visit the one they love. I would also not exclude the person in the decision-making process, not necessarily allowing them to make the decision, but at least having the courtesy to let them know what the doctors have said and what decisions I was going to make and an explanation. And I would support them in their grief. I would recognize their humaness and their feelings and treat them with respect, because my family member would want me to, and it is the right thing to do, to always treat others with respect, without necessarily agreeing with their choices.

That is how I view it.

 

[Lethe]

Thanks for the nicer responses on here - I certainly thought that hospitals could not discriminate like that (wouldn’t work well for me anyway, I’m far closer to my friends than family!) and I know one of the arguments for gay civil unions is rules/laws like this. But I’m glad people are allowed to visit their partners, whatever gender.

 

[Lethe]

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

Hm. So what about lesbians then? And straight couples who practice anal sex? You are very narrow-minded. Besides which, I completely agree with juliamajor - being homosexual does not mean you have no emotions, nor do homosexual relationships exist devoid of love. So far, gay civil partnerships in the UK have lower rates of divorce than straight marriages.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

Perhaps the problem is with the “family only” visitation policy.
If it is “family only” then, no, a homosexual lover isn’t family,
then neither is someone’s best friend of 20 years.

 

[Zoe_Brain]

The law isn’t perfect, but the Hospitals which would not treat long-term same-sex lovers and partners of patients in ICU as if they were “Family Members” would be few and far between.

Not in some states, I’m afraid.

Just such a situation landed a lesbian couple in the national spotlight 20 years ago, after a drunk driver slammed into a car driven by Sharon Kowalski, then 27, leaving her comatose. Kowalski’s longtime partner, Karen Thompson, then 37, a physical education teacher at St. Cloud State University in Minnesota, sued Kowalski’s parents for guardianship after they refused to recognize the women’s relationship, blocked Thompson from visiting Kowalski, and disagreed with Thompson on Kowalski’s care.

After a bitter legal battle lasting nearly a decade, a court sided with Thompson. She still cares for Kowalski, who emerged from her coma with severe brain damage and other physical problems.

Gay-rights groups had hoped the case would mark a turning point in their effort to have more say over partners’ medical treatment, but it hasn’t always worked that way. While some states such as California, Vermont and New Jersey grant medical decision-making rights to registered domestic partners, most, including New York, offer limited rights or none at all.

Partners of gay hospital patients often can’t even visit, much less make life-and-death decisions for their loved ones, particularly if blood relatives object, said Carissa Cunningham of Gay&Lesbian Advocates&Defenders, a Boston-based group.

GLAD is representing several couples in a lawsuit to try to force the Connecticut Department of Public Health to recognize same-sex marriage. Two of the women involved, Carol Conklin, 51, and Janet Peck, 53, of Colchester, Conn., have been together nearly 30 years but say they still are not ensured access to each other in the hospital.

After Peck underwent major surgery, Conklin was initially denied permission to visit her in intensive care. When she identified herself as Peck’s partner, the attending nurse said she did not know what that meant. Conklin was not allowed to designate herself Peck’s next of kin during another hospitalization.

"It’s very routine. It happens all the time," said Cunningham.

Such cases rarely make headlines, but they are no less tragic than the Schiavos’ situation.

Two years ago, a Baltimore jury rejected a claim by Bill Flanigan, 38, of San Francisco, who sued Baltimore’s Shock Trauma Center of the University of Maryland medical system after it did not let him visit his partner, 32-year-old Robert Daniel, as he died of AIDS. “By the time he finally got into the hospital room, his partner had lost consciousness and never regained it, and they never had a chance to say goodbye,” said Buckel.

The hospital denied the accusations of discrimination.

Two of the women involved in the landmark lawsuit that led the Massachusetts Supreme Court to clear the way for same-sex marriages last year said they were prompted by medical concerns. When 59-year-old Linda Davies learned that she required double hip replacement surgery, she and her partner of more than 30 years, Gloria Bailey, 63, discovered that there was no guarantee Bailey would be allowed unfettered access to Davies during her 11-day recovery.

“Some hospitals said they could not guarantee Gloria would be allowed in,” said Davies, who lives with Bailey in Orleans, Mass., and queried several hospitals before choosing one for the operation. “We realized how much we really needed to be married when I went into the hospital. That’s when we realized how vulnerable we were.”

Opponents of gay marriage say same-sex couples can opt to register as domestic partners or enter civil unions, but such partnerships don’t always include the power to make major medical decisions for each other.

In addition, because such rights differ by state, there is no guarantee that a couple will be able to share in each other’s medical decisions should disaster strike far from home. Flanigan and Daniel, for example, were from California, but they were in Maryland when Daniel fell ill.

And gay activists say even if they have gone through the legal machinations of having their partners declared health-care proxies, hospitals might be unfamiliar with such rights or simply refuse to respect them. If the partners don’t happen to be carrying the paperwork to prove their status, they can similarly be refused their rights, said Buckel.

The recent court case in Florida was unusual though: the hospital blocked access even though the partner had a medical power of attorney and had brought the documentation. It also stopped the couple’s children from having access.

The intervention of a Priest did give the family access during the Last Rites. He was transferred to a different diocese shortly thereafter, when his superiors were made aware of this…

While same-sex partners who lack the various pre-prepared documents are routinely excluded in many states, if they do have such documents, they’re let in. Exceptions make the papers. As here (NYT)

 

[Rence]

I’ve always been taught as a nurse that it is not my place to judge people when delivering health care. I’m there to provide the care and meet the needs of the patient. That does not mean I personally condone same-sex relationships or agree with them, but those opinions are kept to myself . When I provide care it is without predjudice. I think most hospitals today recognize this and allow significant others in the patient’s life to visit.

However, in most states, unless there is some legal document assigning a person as one to make health care decisions on behalf of a patient, it is usually the family who makes the decisions. And I have seen major problems arise when there is a conflict between families and the “significant other” in a person’s life, when the patient is unconscious or in a condition where he cannot express his wishes. The family usually prevails in these cases because that is how the law is set up. Sometimes they will not allow the SO to even visit the patient.

If I had a family member that was in such a relationship, I personally would allow them to visit. Although I personally do not condone homosexuality, I am not in control of that area of their life, I am not going to change things, and I would recognize the fact that there is an emotional attachment between these two people, they do love each other, and it would be cruel to deny them the right to visit the one they love. I would also not exclude the person in the decision-making process, not necessarily allowing them to make the decision, but at least having the courtesy to let them know what the doctors have said and what decisions I was going to make and an explanation. And I would support them in their grief. I would recognize their humaness and their feelings and treat them with respect, because my family member would want me to, and it is the right thing to do, to always treat others with respect, without necessarily agreeing with their choices.

That is how I view it.

I agree with all of what you said. I would add that it would be in the bests interests of everyone, to have a durable power of attorney and/or living will so that all these things can be spelled out. Your doctor should have a copy, your durable power of attorney should have a copy, and you should keep a condensed copy in your wallet with you.

I am in nursing school, and I have seen parents and siblings banned from patient’s rooms because the patient specified that that is what they wanted.

Also keep in mind, when families are fueding, they can keep hetero SO’s out of a patient’s room too if the the patient is unable to speak for him/herself to change that.

What you see here, is plain and simple: an incapacitated patient being taken advantage of. The priority is the patient. People, make your wishes known before it gets to that point. In a lot of hospitals, information and visiting rights are in the front page of the chart.

 

[Rence]

Not in some states, I’m afraid.

The recent court case in Florida was unusual though: the hospital blocked access even though the partner had a medical power of attorney and had brought the documentation. It also stopped the couple’s children from having access.

The intervention of a Priest did give the family access during the Last Rites. He was transferred to a different diocese shortly thereafter, when his superiors were made aware of this…

While same-sex partners who lack the various pre-prepared documents are routinely excluded in many states, if they do have such documents, they’re let in. Exceptions make the papers. As here (NYT)

Don’t think I’m shooting the messenger because my reply is my opinion on the news you quoted, not you

Those cases are crazy, and don’t tell me those people who are exploiting the patient are doing “God’s work” because that’s utter nonsense. I’m SO glad the hospitals in my area that would serve me don’t pull **** like that. The patient is the priority.

 

[Rence]

Perhaps the problem is with the “family only” visitation policy.
If it is “family only” then, no, a homosexual lover isn’t family,
then neither is someone’s best friend of 20 years.

Well, then I’d say, know your surrounding area hospitals’ policies. I already know that there are some hospitals I wouldn’t walk into if I thought my rights would be violated in any way. It’s a big world, there are a lot of hospitals out there, even for me (and I live in a rural area). Make an informed decision, because apparently the only one who will take care of your own interests is you. I’m learning that more and more every day.

 

[Lutheranteach]

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

There’s nothing I can say to this post that would not result in being banned, so I guess I’ll just say that I consider it a blessing that I don’t know you.

 

[hellopeople]

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

Isn’t that nice.

Seriously though, of course they should be able to see their loved ones in the hospital. How is this even an issue? Even if you don’t agree with what they are doing, you can’t deny their connection to each other? I feel that anyone that has a view like the above poster hates both the sinner and the sin.

 

[rossum]

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

Should we file this under “Hate the sinner, hate the sin”?

rossum

 

[Major_Tom]

Voiced quite well in this : youtube.com/watch?v=GoWNnt4Fdh4

(Hear it through, if it offends you it’ll be over soon enough anyway… The point that hits home with me is that someone could be refused to see their partner of years and years because theyre not married, though they would happily be married if they could)

Certainly, yes. I would think that it’s more up to the individual patient to set the threshold on who would meet this criteria. If you had a family friend who was a constant companion and could provide strength to an ailing patient… how could you refuse admittance?

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Not in some states, I’m afraid.

The recent court case in Florida was unusual though: the hospital blocked access even though the partner had a medical power of attorney and had brought the documentation. It also stopped the couple’s children from having access.

The intervention of a Priest did give the family access during the Last Rites. He was transferred to a different diocese shortly thereafter, when his superiors were made aware of this…

While same-sex partners who lack the various pre-prepared documents are routinely excluded in many states, if they do have such documents, they’re let in. Exceptions make the papers. As here (NYT)

Zoe:

I’m used to California Law, which my Curate & some of his patients helped to set. I’m appalled that a hospital would violate a Durable MEDICAL Power of Attorney, as that is the LEGAL statement of the PATIENT’S wishes, and, LEGALLY, ALL hospitals are obligated to follow it. In addition, I’m both ashamed and appalled that a priest would be transfered out of his Diocese for doing exactly as the Church & Charity command him to do in this type of situation.

One reason my Curate got involved was that the “family” of a patient of his who was dying both refused to see him and refused to allow his gay (I cleaned up their language) friends to see him while he was dying. The only reason he didn’t die alone was because my Curate (who was treating him as his Physicians Assistant) brought in his Pastor (the one who baptized the other man who was dying from AIDS) who then (at his patient’s request) Baptized him, and gave him the Eucharist & Holy Unction before he died later that evening - They were with him for maybe 6-8 hours.

I understand that was one of the cases that was cited when they changed the law here…

When I had my surgery for an Acoustic Neuroma in 1994, I only needed to say who I wished to have visit me, and I had my then girlfriend list several people she thought would want to visit me (including herself)…

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[puzzleannie]

any one who enters the hospital is invited to specify what visitors he will accept, and which he does not. even the chaplain cannot visit without his permission. If he wishes to state his next door neighbor, boss or any other person is the one he wishes to visit and to make medical decisions when he cannot, he can do so with the proper documentation. This entire discussion is a non-issue.

 

[edwest2]

It’s very sad that this is brought up so often. If States can “marry” two people of the same sex and make it legal, it is obvious that they can make it legal to allow two gay people to visit each other.

That said, I worked at a large hospital and I never saw a single case where a visitor was turned away from visiting somebody. The only exceptions were the ICU and CCU, and again, today, there is no reason to believe a law could not be created for visitation.

I see no reason to bring this up here.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Traditional_Ang]

No. Repeatedly sodomising somebody does not make one a family member.

Petergee:

I’ll repeat a situation I just posted, and let you decide who was acting like the man’s family…

A man who contracted AIDS during the early 1980’s was diagnosed sometime in 1985 while trying to donate blood. Shortly thereafter, he called his parents, who lived in the Midwest, to see if he could come home. When he revealed that he had AIDS, his father not only refused to allow him to come him, he also disowned him and forbade any further contact between him and the rest of his family. Except for occasional calls and letters from his mother, NO ONE in his family contacted him for the next 7 years. And, because his father threw away all mail from him and deleted all messages from him and refused to talk to him, gradually even his mother lost contact…

During the next 8 years, his gay friends took care of him - They cooked his meals, took him to the doctor when he got sick, made him take his meds (this was when the treatments for AIDS were AZT & Prayer), took care of his nausea & even paid his bills when he couldn’t. But the day came when he seriously began to lose the fight, and the PA (my Curate) who was treating him tried to call his “Father” to inform him that the son he had disowned was gravely ill. At first, the man’s “Father” tried to say he didn’t have a son who was gay. My Curate has told me he heard the voice of a woman sobbing, and the wife’s sobbing was the only reason the “Father” acknowledged that he had a son.

A week later, the “Father” arrived at the hospital (He had forbidden the rest of the family from coming) where my Curate’s patient was being treated for End-Stage AIDS. He flew into a rage as soon as he saw his son’s friends waiting outside the door of his hospital room. I don’t think I need to repeat what he said, but the language did not reflect hospital decorum, let alone his position as the pastor of a Baptist Congregation. No sooner had he finished confronting this man’s gay friends, then he was at the Nurses’ Station demanding that, “Those (SWD) are NOT to be allowed to see my son under ANY circumstances.” Please remember, these friends were the people who had taken care of this man for most of the previous 8 years…

He had no sooner finished at the Nurses’ Station when he stormed into the room - To remind his “son” in NO UNCERTAIN terms (Pointing at his “son”), “This (SWD) is NOT my son!” and (pointing at himself), “I am NOT your father.” “you got what you deserved, and hope you rot in hell”

He then promptly left, and took the next plane home, making sure NO ONE from this poor man’s family visited while he was dying.

Every day, for the next 10 days, my Curate’s patient’s gay friends went to the Nurses’ Station and begged to see their friend. Every day they were told that his “Father”, the one who had disowned him, had forbidden any contact between them and their friend.

I have to correct part of my original post on this…

My Curate started taking as much time as he could to see his patient almost immediately after this happened. He talked to his pastor within a day or two, and his pastor used the “Clergy Exemption” to see to see this poor man 6-7 times during his final 2 weeks. During his last week, my Curate’s patient was Baptized and received the Eucharist 5x and received the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick 2x.

Finally, my Curate and the Doctor he was working under managed to write up “Doctor’s Orders” which allowed his patient to see his friends during his last few days.

To this day, my Curate can’t tell this to me without weeping.

Who do you think ACTED more like family to this dying young man?

Your Brothe & Servant in Christ, Michael