Should I baptize a dying child against the parents' wishes?

[Cristiano]

Absolutely not!!!..if I had found out someone had baptized my child against my wishes, I would make sure they didn’t do it again to anyone elses child. It does not speak well for the trust the parents have placed in you to care for their child…it does not speak to Truth.

Would you deny you had baptized the child if faced with prosecution and loss of your practice?

My son only lived less than 30 minutes after he was born…to know the physician I had trusted with the care of my family had betrayed that trust would have been one more burden to bear in a tragic situation I already had found myself having to deal with. Rational or not…it would have been a blow I and my wife need not have had to bear…to know our faith had been violated. To know that YOU had not respected our faith traditions…even though as a Friend I do not believe baptism does anything other than get the head wet…I would have still felt betrayal…it is not YOUR decision.

Some Catholics sure get up in arms over Mormons baptizing for the dead on their behalf without their permission…but when it comes to them doing an “unauthorized” baptism…

I guess I am just too close to the scenario to give a nod that it’s ok…IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU SHOULD TAKE UPON YOUR SELF TO DO…I certainly would not consider you as my physician knowing such a deeply personal violation had taken place.

Here we are not talking about people wishes but about God’s will. Are you willing to do things that people do not like if that is God’s will?

 

[Publisher]

Here we are not talking about people wishes but about God’s will.** Are you willing to do things that people do not like if that is God’s will?/**QUOTE]

That is my decision to make and mine alone…to have my own beliefs violated at such a time by someone I have placed my trust in to care for my family would have been reprehensible.

 

[raaucoin]

I have never been in your situation.
My TAOR was inside or near to an ambulance.
I have baptized, on an emergency basis, as I was trained to do.
Your OP qualifies with “against the parents’ wishes” – my situation was neither with nor without, but it was the right thing to do.
When an infant is dying, feelings are high, the family is screaming along on adrenaline and we have to maintain an iron claw of discipline over our own feelings: I had a few seconds while my partner finished prepping for intubation and I was stringing IV tubing and spiking the bag.
Normal saline served in this situation and the father shouted, “WHY’D YOU DO THAT?” and I reared up and shouted right back, “BECAUSE I’M IRISH AND I’M GIVING THIS CHILD A FIGHTING CHANCE!”
We worked the pediatric code all the way to the hospital, and ER worked the code a while longer.
A year and a half later a couple came to our station with a wee child, a laughing boy with blue eyes and an immense curiosity, and they wanted to see that big Irishman that wouldn’t give up on their little boy.
Oh – yes – when our chief found out about it, he asked me to be departmental chaplain.

Beautiful story!

 

[zab]

*1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"63 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. *From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

---

I believe at times a health care worker or anyone may and should baptize a dying infant, particularly if the parents are Catholic or Christian. However, if they have knowledge that baptizing the infant would be against the wishes of the parents then they should trust the baby to the mercy of God as stated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[FAB]

Also as a Deacon, I am in full agreement.

 

[zab]

Thank you, Deacons.

 

[Cristiano]

Cristiano;8366355:

Here we are not talking about people wishes but about God’s will.** Are you willing to do things that people do not like if that is God’s will?/**

QUOTE]

That is my decision to make and mine alone…to have my own beliefs violated at such a time by someone I have placed my trust in to care for my family would have been reprehensible.

Fine it can also be your decision to put yourself above God and to separate yourself from Him forever. We have free will and that is why we can choose. You make your choices other people make theirs. Some will try to do their best to align their with with God’s will.

 

[Lucky102]

According to the Code of Canon Law, “An infant of Catholic parents or even of non-Catholic parents can be baptized licitly in danger of death even against the will of the parents” (CIC 868 §2).

I am a resident physician in a children’s hospital where I will be likely to witness children in danger of death right in front of me. Am I obligated to baptize any child that I see who is dying, regardless of the parents’ wishes? Am I to understand the canon as saying that it would be licit, but not obligatory, to do so? And if it is licit, then should I? I imagine the medical-legal repercussions could be severe, or I could lose my job - what is a Catholic to do in this situation? Would it be permissible to baptize the child in secret without asking the parents? Thank you for all of your thoughts.

If you were to do this, unless you were completely sure that the baby had not been baptized, then you should perform only a conditional baptism.

 

[Publisher]

Fine it can also be your decision to put yourself above God and to separate yourself from Him forever. We have free will and that is why we can choose. You make your choices other people make theirs. Some will try to do their best to align their with with God’s will.

As it can yours too…but neither YOU nor ANYONE else should seek to violate the sacred trust God has given to the parents of a child. In my understanding of God and His mercy, my son is safe in the Presence with my wife who died a year later…so NO…I am not just a bystander to a situation as this…that you would violate and “spiritually seek to rape” my child by performing a religious rite NOT OF HIS BIRTH situation is IMO a SIN of the worst kind…you seek to circumvent the free will of an individual…MY FREE WILL to be the head of my household and spiritual leader.

If you can soothe your conscience with such beliefs…I certainly can’t stop you…HOWEVER if YOU were to violate my freedom and conscience and I was able to do anything about it I certainly would…

As I said…this is “way too close to home” for me…have you lost a child? Do you know what occurs in those moments when you realize your hope has died? A child you had prayed for and a wife you had nursed and supported and prayed for…and all your hopes in one tiny expanse of less than 30 minutes had faded into smoke…we weren’t even able to hold him when he lived…you have no idea the violence such a betrayal would have caused…that I even need to defend my position as a parent amazes me…and that the physician I trusted to care for my family had wounded and betrayed us in such a way…would have been one more thing to bear in an unbearable situation.

But of course you can soothe yourself with your piety…I have very un-Quakerly feelings around the subject…that too is MY burden…one I would hope to have you understand…but…that’s just too much to hope for I guess…

I am not rational around the subject I admit…after 28 years…it still hurts to Remember…

I just hope to God you never violate someone in the manner you seem to be advocating…you would have much to answer for when you enter the Presence I’d think.

 

[Publisher]

And may Almighty God bless you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you friend,

In the decades following their deaths I have moved from absolute despair and cursed God and dared Him to do anything about my curses…but He came to me and comforted me and healed me…but I guess not completely…such feeling welled up inside me I haven’t felt in such a long time…I thank you for your blessing and prayer.

This morning I was on the phone with my cousin…her 20 year old son who suffered from mental issues took his life at their home last night…and I felt the loss again along with her…and this thread made the loss even more real to think someone would inflict futher pain in such a situation as loosing a child.
[/quote]

 

[anp1215]

As it can yours too…but neither YOU nor ANYONE else should seek to violate the sacred trust God has given to the parents of a child. In my understanding of God and His mercy, my son is safe in the Presence with my wife who died a year later…so NO…I am not just a bystander to a situation as this…that you would violate and “spiritually seek to rape” my child by performing a religious rite NOT OF HIS BIRTH situation is IMO a SIN of the worst kind…you seek to circumvent the free will of an individual…MY FREE WILL to be the head of my household and spiritual leader.

If you can soothe your conscience with such beliefs…I certainly can’t stop you…HOWEVER if YOU were to violate my freedom and conscience and I was able to do anything about it I certainly would…

As I said…this is “way too close to home” for me…have you lost a child? Do you know what occurs in those moments when you realize your hope has died? A child you had prayed for and a wife you had nursed and supported and prayed for…and all your hopes in one tiny expanse of less than 30 minutes had faded into smoke…we weren’t even able to hold him when he lived…you have no idea the violence such a betrayal would have caused…that I even need to defend my position as a parent amazes me…and that the physician I trusted to care for my family had wounded and betrayed us in such a way…would have been one more thing to bear in an unbearable situation.

But of course you can soothe yourself with your piety…I have very un-Quakerly feelings around the subject…that too is MY burden…one I would hope to have you understand…but…that’s just too much to hope for I guess…

I am not rational around the subject I admit…after 28 years…it still hurts to Remember…

I just hope to God you never violate someone in the manner you seem to be advocating…you would have much to answer for when you enter the Presence I’d think.

I am so sorry for your loss and I completely agree with you on this point.

 

[Publisher]

I am so sorry for your loss and I completely agree with you on this point.

Thank you…when I saw the title of the thread I “knew”…I just “knew” I should stay away from it…but I couldn’t “help myself”…and I was right after all…I should have stayed away from it…hopefully a “real face” was placed upon this thread…hopefully…

Thank you again for your kind words.

 

[zab]

Publisher;8366378:

Fine it can also be your decision to put yourself above God and to separate yourself from Him forever. We have free will and that is why we can choose. You make your choices other people make theirs. Some will try to do their best to align their with with God’s will.

In this case, if a person baptized a dying child knowing that the parents would object, they would only be doing what they think is God’s will. I believe it is God’s will to listen to what the church teaches and the Deacon ((name removed by moderator)) has posted a quote from canon law on this topic.

PS. I think the quoting system if off again

 

[Bearontherun]

I would not baptize against the parents wishes. My understanding of this topic has increased thanks to the Deacon comments and others.

Peace.

 

[Cristiano]

In this case, if a person baptized a dying child knowing that the parents would object, they would only be doing what they think is God’s will. I believe it is God’s will to listen to what the church teaches and the Deacon ((name removed by moderator)) has posted a quote from canon law on this topic.

PS. I think the quoting system if off again

I think that you are correct with saying that we should be obedient to what the Church asks us to do or not to do. My point was not trying to pick one choice vs another but simply to say that we have absolutes and if the Church gives us instructions about something we must follow them. I totally disagree with the idea that we should concern with possible ramification at the level of secular law, such an attitude could bring us very fast in the realm of moral relativism.

 

[lisahiku]

Limbo for Infants has NEVER been a Church teaching. It was only ever a theological hypothesis.

well it was a good “hypothesis”. Let’s not forget, original sin is on EVERY human soul.
THAT is a church teaching.

 

[terrig]

Do not make God into what you would like him to be, that it is idolatry of a false god. We only know what the church teaches us and the Church teaches us that an infant that is baptized just before his death will go the heaven. We are allowed to hope and we should do so; however, making judgments about possibilities that we do not like is wrong because we do not know the details of God’s plan.
End quote: Very well said.

CHAZK78, I would follow the advice of the deacons especially since you’re still a resident physician. It seems to me that your intentions are not to hurt anyone but you care for the soul of the child. God knows your heart. I’d like to have a doctor like you around if I was dying - to make sure I got the last rites. God bless.

 

[Irish_Pride]

I wouldn’t do it.This is their child,if they want no baptism,then that’s their choice .You can only pray for the baby.

 

[Cristiano]

I think that you are wrong in your understanding of my post! Please re-read my statement. I was saying that we must follow Church laws without consideration for secular law. If we gate our obedience to the Church with secular concerns then it is moral relativism. Of course we must concern ourselves with secular law when it is aligned with the Church law or the Church is neutral on the topic.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

It is best to baptize the child, even if you believe the child will go to heaven anyway, it is best to be sure. Who knows what grace may come upon that child, if he survives (he may become a wonderful Catholic, or maybe convert his parents), and if he doesn’t, he will be with the Lord. Baptize the child.