Should I be Catholic or Orthodox?

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Nonzi

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I am a recent convert to Catholicism. I know nothing of Orthodoxy besides that it used to be one with Catholicism. How can I know I am in the right half of the split?

Bless you all.
 
The Catholic Church is the true Church of our Lord Jesus Christ. So, be a Catholic. 😁

“They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.” Lumen gentium 14, Second Vatican Council

“it must be firmly believed that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door.” - Dominus Iesus, 2000
 
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Now you get the best of both worlds.
 
there are cultural differences in different parts of the world so it is natural to see different forms of worship to Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit. One thing for sure though our Lord did not want people to fight and argue and see his flock divided. I am RC but sometimes like to watch a Byzantine divine liturgy to get a different perspective. But I will always be RC at heart…
 
God did not want His flock to be divided, but because of human pride and sin it has been. We must pray that everyone return to the true Church, the Catholic Church, not simply ignore and accept that we are out of communion in an effort to feel like a united front.
 
The Eastern Orthodox are not a universal church. And they seem to be divided along national lines. I’ve been told by Romanians that they’d rather attend Catholic Mass than the Divine Liturgy at the Russian Orthodox Church, which in some areas is the only one available to the Orthodox. So be bold, be Catholic.
 
Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.

Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 107 AD.
 
Nonzi said:
I know nothing of Orthodoxy besides that it used to be one with Catholicism.
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Basically, Catholicism was never purely Latin or Greek. We have Western (Latin) Catholics- called Roman Catholics as well. Most Catholics are Roman Catholics, but there are also Eastern Catholics and they use Greek version of Mass (they call it Divine Liturgy), they have some different expressions of faith but they accept Pope and we are one Church. Roman Catholics can attend Eastern Catholics “Masses” and it will count as your Sunday obligation, you can receive their sacraments (even confession or Eucharist), because we are one Church!

In year 1054 due to internal strife in the Church, some Eastern Catholics left Catholic Church gradually. They are now known as Eastern Orthodox. Some also came back and became Eastern Catholics again.

That is very, very simplified story. Eastern Orthodox do not accept Pope and their Churches are national- each is led by Patriarch. Over the centuries, this resulted in their disunity on some matters and while faith is generally the same, they can argue with each other and excommunicate each other. Currently Russian Patriarch excommunicated Orthodox “First in Honor” Patriarch (fancy title, no real power over other Patriarchs to put it very simply). There is now internal Schism within Orthodoxy over who is right and who is wrong about the matter. Lack of central authority leads to disunity…
Nonzi said:
How can I know I am in the right half of the split?
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Study history, study what Greek Fathers say about Papacy… but in the end answer is clear. Everyone (even Orthodox) acknowledges that Pope of Rome is Successor of St. Peter the Apostle. If you are in Church with Peter’s successor, you are in Church which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ built upon Peter- in Catholic Church. It comes directly from the Bible.
 
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OrbisNonSufficit said:
In year 1054 due to internal strife in the Church . . .
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@OrbisNonSufficit, I like how you worded it as an “internal” strife. I have always said that the “schism” is from within the Church and not outside of it.
OrbisNonSufficit said:
Eastern Orthodox do not accept Pope . .
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We acknowledge that the Bishop of Rome is the successor of St Peter along with the Patriarchs of Anioch and Alexandria, the other Petrine Sees. We do not accept that the Roman Pontiff has supreme and immediate jurisdiction over the whole Church.
OrbisNonSufficit said:
. . . their Churches are national- each is led by Patriarch.
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You could say that but my Greek Orthodox Church is a majority non-Greek ethnicity.
OrbisNonSufficit said:
. . . and while faith is generally the same . . .
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The faith is the exact same. The only difference, as I like to say, is what pastries are sold at the parish festival lol!
OrbisNonSufficit said:
Currently Russian Patriarch excommunicated Orthodox “First in Honor” Patriarch (fancy title, no real power over other Patriarchs to put it very simply).
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Yes, the MP broke Eucharistic communion with the EP, but not the other way around. So, I could receive the Mysteries at a Russian Orthodox Church if the priest was willing. I know of a few cases where this is the case and visa versa because there is no other Orthodox Church in the area. Don’t get me wrong though, very embarrassing.
OrbisNonSufficit said:
Study history, study what Greek Fathers say about Papacy… but in the end answer is clear.
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Not really. I was Roman Catholic my whole life, alter server, college campus ministry, Catholic Answers Radio regular, Catholic Answers Forum regular and was into RC apologetics big time for 20 years. I was on the forum all the time debating with Orthodox, Protestants and non-Christians. I knew all the classic RC apologetics tracts and go to Church Fathers quotes. I became Orthodox (a journey that went through the Byzantine Catholic Church).

The Eastern Fathers do speak highly of the Bishop of Rome, but this does not mean supreme and immediate jurisdiction over the entire Church. I’m sure you can find writings of Western Fathers speaking highly of the Eastern Churches and why wouldn’t they, they were in communion with each other.

As I have said, the break in communion between the Orthodox and the Catholic Church is, as you say, “internal.”

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
@OrbisNonSufficit, I like how you worded it as an “internal” strife. I have always said that the “schism” is from within the Church and not outside of it.
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I understand your view, but I am mostly saying that it came from inside. I am not advocating view that those in Schism remain fully inside the Church… though since Salvation is offered to all and Church is Ark of Salvation, every human being has a relationship with the Church.
ziapueblo said:
We acknowledge that the Bishop of Rome is the successor of St Peter along with the Patriarchs of Anioch and Alexandria, the other Petrine Sees.
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Yet Petrine Authority and Primacy rest on Rome. Alexandrine is Petrine See, but historically was referred to as “See of Mark”. Antioch is Petrine See but See of Mark had primacy over it, hence See of Petrine Authority and Ministry logically rests in Rome.
ziapueblo said:
The faith is the exact same. The only difference, as I like to say, is what pastries are sold at the parish festival lol!
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I mean Russia vs Constantinople situation. Administrative issues aside, even canonical status of Churches is disputed…
ziapueblo said:
The Eastern Fathers do speak highly of the Bishop of Rome, but this does not mean supreme and immediate jurisdiction over the entire Church.
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They speak about inerrancy of Rome (Papal Infallibility, denied by Orthodox), about right to judge all Bishops (universal jurisdiction). While “immediate” might be a bit of a disputed thing, others are not.
 
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Nonzi said:
I am a recent convert to Catholicism. I know nothing of Orthodoxy besides that it used to be one with Catholicism. How can I know I am in the right half of the split?

Bless you all.
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Honestly, this is one of the longest running, multiple thread, hotly debated topics on CAF. May I direct you to this thread:

https://forums.catholic-questions.o...-between-the-catholic-church-and-the-orthodox

And then, may I recommend fasting, prayer, and asking the Lord for enlightenment? If you recently converted to Catholicism, may I also recommend just working on being a faithful Catholic Christian before jumping ship for Orthodoxy? Sometimes I think we get far too hung up on being “Catholic”, “Orthodox” or “Evangelical” (not that the distinctions are unimportant, and that there is not one unique communion that constitutes Christ’s One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church) and forget to work on cultivating the Christian virtues which are essential to our spiritual life and the pursuit of union with God.

May the Lord bless and guide you.
 
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ziapueblo said:
We acknowledge that the Bishop of Rome is the successor of St Peter along with the Patriarchs of Anioch and Alexandria, the other Petrine Sees. We do not accept that the Roman Pontiff has supreme and immediate jurisdiction over the whole Church.
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I’ve heard this argument before and my thinking is ok, so both those other two ‘Patriarch’ Sees are now and have been for many centuries in non-Catholic countries. To me, it is protection from above that the Roman See did not fall. And it is no coincidence that the EO is divided against itself by all those national Patriarchates, how many are there? 20 or so?
 
Dan_Defender said:
20 or so?
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9 actually: Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Moscow, Georgia, Serbia, Romania, and Bulgaria.

The Catholic Church has 6 Eastern Patriarchs. Seven if you count, which most Eastern Catholics do, the Major Archbishop of the UGCC. Eight total if you include the Pope of Rome.

ZP
 
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