Should I become a Catholic?

[Genesius]

Steel, I’m not sure that this is directly related to your questions, but is a thread I started on another forum that may be of some general assistance. Hope it helps somewhat. Everyone else in here I think has more than answered some of your questions. Anyway, here’s my original post:

I recently read a post in another forum about someone who was considering converting, and how he could make it smoother. It brought to my mind my own journey and what helped me. The following are merely suggestions. There are a whole plethora of considerations I probably won’t even touch on, such as married couples, etc., considering that I was single at the time. Anyway, here are a few:

1. Take your time. Don’t rush into it. IMHO it’s a sin to make such a move if it goes against your conscience, even if I personally believe the Catholic Church is Christ’s intended Church and contains the fullness of the faith, if YOU are not totally convinced, you would be sinning against your conscience.
2. Study, study, study. Don’t just take second hand information. Read the Catholic Catechism for yourself. Listen to Catholic programs on TV and radio, and read books by Catholic authors (i.e. conversion stories, etc.).
3. Pray, pray, pray. This is not just an intellectual journey that you have to struggle with yourself. Ask God for discernment and guidance. That was my problem. I struggled so much with the theological issues that I lost sight of my personal relationship with Christ. It sent me spiraling down in a world of frustration and perceived deception.
4. I found the transition smoother as I continued down my journey to seek out denominations that were more similar to the Catholic Church in their form of worship and theology. For instance, I began in the Salvation Army, to Fundamental Baptist, to Non-denominational, back to Conservative Baptist, to Presbyterian, to Lutheran, and finally home to Rome. I also graduated from a Protestant Bible College that was supported by the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ. I can imagine that it would be much harder to go directly from Fundamentalist to Catholic or from Non-denominational to Catholic, than from say Lutheran or Anglican (Episcopalian) to Catholic.
5. If after all these considerations, you still find yourself drawn to the Catholic Church, attend RCIA. It’s not a total commitment, but a way for you to better inform yourself from actual Catholic teachers. Or seek out a spiritual director like a priest or deacon who may also help you with suggestions on interpersonal relationships with those close to you who are not Catholic.

Again, these are all just suggestions. Ultimately, your decision is yours alone, and as long as you are acting in accordance with what you believe to be true to your conscience before God, I’m sure He will guide you to where he wants you to be, whether it’s the Catholic Church or somewhere else. Hope that helps someone.

 

[Genesius]

You have some good responses, I think if the real presents in the Eucharist isnt a problem for you, get on with it. Work out other issues on this site, in your readings and in RCIA with others in discernment. Remember there are paths within the church ( such as charismatic, traditional ) find whats best for you. Wecome and God bless .

Blue, I’m sure you meant the real “presence” vs. “presents”. Presents are gifts. However, I got to thinking about it philosophically, and both are true. When we receive the real “presents” (that is the wine and bread), we are receiving the real “presence” (body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ). Didn’t mean to get off topic, though. Thanks for that, even if it was unintentional.

 

[Genesius]

Roy5, Although what you say about the Church requiring assent to every “infallible” doctrine is true, I think you may be confusing “infallible” doctrine with interpreting Scripture. The Church allows quite a bit of latitude in this regard, even with those few passages she has “infallibly” defined or interpreted for the faithful, as long as those interpretations are not OPPOSED to the Church’s.

EXAMPLE: Matthew 16:13-19. This is the passage in which Christ founds the Church upon the “rock”. The Catholic Church interprets this passage as the “rock” applying to the person of Peter. Most Protestants will interpret the “rock” as NOT applying to the person of Peter, but rather to Peter’s confession of who Christ is.

Now one interpretation does not necessarily HAVE TO be opposed to the other. For instance, one could say it was *because *of Peter’s confession that the Father chose him to be Christ’s spokesman on earth after He was to ascend into heaven. The Father chose Peter and revealed who Christ was through the Holy Spirit, therefore, in obedience, Christ also chose Peter. What a faithful Catholic CANNOT do is interpret that passage as the rock being ONLY Peter’s confession at the exclusion of it also applying to the person of Peter.

 

[Stuart5]

I myself went back to the catholic church after 40 years. It was the Blessed Sacrament that did it. He has shown me what He wants me to do within the confines of the church — and I doi ti — be careful what you promise Him — He may send you an unmistakeable invitation — He is able ! It is all real — not a fairy tale

 

[Steel_Pinwheel]

** I have to say that my problem with the Catholic Church (I come from a mixed religious heritage) is that I strongly value my freedom to think independent of any church.**

I also strongly value freedom. But, that freedom is what has turned the Protestant church into such a mess. Everyone chooses the doctrines he wishes and the preachers avoid doctrine so that they won’t offend anyone in the congregation. (They don’t totally avoid doctrine, they pick few to give themselves distinctiveness, but that’s it.)

Does doctrine matter, God judges the heart? I think it matters. Doctrines have practical consequences, anything from causing some people split off from a church to causing a country to go to war. I think there are also consequences for the heart, even if less tangible. I think the Protestant mess has played a huge role in the dechristianing of America.

Roy, agree with every individual point you made, except for where it leads.

 

[Steel_Pinwheel]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

I’m familiar with Catholic defenses of their doctrines, such as the use of the term Father. That’s why in my original post, I used the word “uncomfortable.” For me, it’s not an issue of “prove it to me”. It’s more like learning to like coffee.

I’ve never even stepped foot in a Catholic Church before. At least the Jehovah’s Witnesses come to my door.

 

[JRKH]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

I’m familiar with Catholic defenses of their doctrines, such as the use of the term Father. That’s why in my original post, I used the word “uncomfortable.” For me, it’s not an issue of “prove it to me”. It’s more like learning to like coffee.

I’ve never even stepped foot in a Catholic Church before. At least the Jehovah’s Witnesses come to my door.

Ah - - Guess we need to read more carefully huh…

Well the additional reading suggestions may be helpful anyway.

Since you have never stepped foot in a Catholic Church before, I suggest you do so.
Go to mass and sit in back and follow along as best you can. Also go when there is no one else around and just sit in front of the tabernacle where the Holy Eucharist is in repose.
If you have questions about this or that feature of the church, ask the priest or whoever you talk to about beginning the initiation process.

As far as being “comfortable” with certain beliefs etc. That will come with time and understanding. As far as the term “father” issue goes, I’d mention it to the priest when you speak to him and he’ll probably just tell you to call him by his first name or reverend or something. No one wishes for you to be uncomfortable in this process. We only wish to facilitate your entry.

Peace
James

 

[magdelaine1173]

I think you should enroll in an RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) class at your favorite Catholic parish. Give the Church a fighting chance to explain why she believes the things she does.

As for Mary and “Father,” here you go. There is more on my profile.

I feel the same way ,Steel Pinwheel, you should really go to a church that you desire to become a part of, and see the priest about joining an R.C.I.A. group [Rite of Christian Initiation into Adulthood] Only by being with people who are in the same situation as you are in, [wanting to learn about, and then join in the religion itself,] can you begin to appreciate the feeling of togetherness and knowledge of the Catholic faith. There are many good readings, but the Catholic catechism and the beatitudes are good starts for someone like yourself.
Religion is not about male or femaleness, it is about understanding your role in the process of your current situation, and what God wants you to do, not what you want the religion to do for you. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say…and I hope, above all, that I have not offended your sense of judgement in this matter.

Best of luck to you…it sounds as though the Holy Spirit is moving you closer to a deeper understanding of God.

Magdelaine1173:thumbsup:

 

[PJM]

You have some good responses, I think if the real presents in the Eucharist isnt a problem for you, get on with it. Work out other issues on this site, in your readings and in RCIA with others in discernment. Remember there are paths within the church ( such as charismatic, traditional ) find whats best for you. Wecome and God bless .

My dear friends in Christ,

The Real Presence, just like every other Doctrine and Dogma of the CC is fully justifiable an verifiable.

Faith is after all a GIFT from God; given to whom He chooses and those who sincerely seek it.

So don’t allow any lack of understanding or for that matter, any very possible, miss-understanding stop your search for the single truths found ONLY in Christ Catholic Church.

A FULLY proveable claim by the way.

Let me [and US on the CAF] know if you have question and concerns, and as space permits, we’ll address them for you.

LASTLY permit me to CAUTION YOU:nope: from well entended posters like ROY5…

We live in an age highly influenced by Secular Humanist and Revelatism; that wishes to proclaim that it’s ONLY WRONG IF I SAY IT’S WRONG. IMPOSSIBLE if the Commandments are real! [THEY ARE!]

Christ wisely Founded ONLY One Church, One New Faith an One New Covenant. All within the CC. There are in excess of 100 various proofs of this in the NT. Further Christ appointed and then COMMANDED this One Church [and ONLY this One Church to teach an share these singular Truths]. READ Matt. 28:19-20.

Make sure, dear friend that your ONLY taking advive from Informed fully practicing Catholics!

**Eph. 2:19-20 ** So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, **Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, ** in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit."

**Eph. 4: 4 -8 **“There is one body [Only One Church] and one Spirit, [Only One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [Only One God] ONLY one faith, [Only One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift."

JESUS CHRIST GAVE THE VERY KEYS TO HEAVEN ONLY TO ST. PETER AND HIS ONE CATHOLIC CHURCH! Matt. 16:19].

May God continue to Guide and Bless you, and pray daily for Wisdom and proper guidence!

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[mcrow]

Hi. I’m a life-long Protestant who has been considering becoming Catholic. Let me share some some of my pros and cons.

I recognize the long history of the Catholic church as giving it legitimacy. In a way, it’s even the mother, even if unwillingly, of Protestantism. But, my main motivation is the state of the Protestant church. I think in many cases, and in general, the Catholic Church has superior doctrine to modern Protestant churches. Frankly, in recent decades, the Protestant churches have just become a chaotic and cultish mess. And, I feel that many of them are too effeminate (if you don’t know what I mean, don’t worry about it).

On the other hand, there are Catholic doctrines I am uncomfortable with, such as calling the minister “Father” or such as the extreme veneration of Mary, albeit she was greatly blessed. I also don’t think the Church of Rome was ever intended by the Apostles to rule the other churches.

Are my objections to the Catholic Church too much to make me acceptable in Catholic circles? What are the chances of me becoming comfortable with those things I am not accustomed to? Is a man allowed to be more manly in the Catholic Church? And, if I should become Catholic, how would I go about doing it?

I was in the same boat as you not long ago. I’m now about half way through RCIA and on my way to becoming a member of the church.

Calling ministers “father”, IMO, is just a term to denote that they are the spiritual leaders of the congregation in the way the men are the leaders of the family.

“I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel”(1 Cor. 4:14–15).

As for Mary. As noted above, honoring Marry isn’t required. Some honor he more than others, the church says honor her as you want so long as it’s not competition with God.
It should also be noted that Catholics don’t worship Mary, they pray to her and ask her to pray for us:

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen”

I think the bible actually states pretty clearly that there should be one unified church passed down from the apostles. I believe Acts covers this pretty extensively. I recommend reading Acts for this subject.

 

[JRKH]

I was in the same boat as you not long ago. I’m now about half way through RCIA and on my way to becoming a member of the church.

Calling ministers “father”, IMO, is just a term to denote that they are the spiritual leaders of the congregation in the way the men are the leaders of the family.

“I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel”(1 Cor. 4:14–15).

As for Mary. As noted above, honoring Marry isn’t required. Some honor he more than others, the church says honor her as you want so long as it’s not competition with God.
It should also be noted that Catholics don’t worship Mary, they pray to her and ask her to pray for us:

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen”

I think the bible actually states pretty clearly that there should be one unified church passed down from the apostles. I believe Acts covers this pretty extensively. I recommend reading Acts for this subject.

I think that the bolded item needs to be clarified. As Catholics we ARE required to honor Mary. the Catachism says this in para 963
“The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is ‘clearly the mother of the members of Christ’ . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head.” “Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church.”

She is the mother of Christ, the mother of the Church and, as members of that church, she is our mother. Since she is our mother we honor her.

This issue that I and others have mentioned to the OP deals more with the extent of “private devotion” required of an individual Catholic toward the Holy Mother.
For instance, I honor her and I try to pray the rosary regularly. However, I rarely invoke her intercession for specific things. I personally prefer to simply pray to the Father directly (talk to dad).

Peace
James

 

[catholicpublish]

To say Catholicism is the mother of Protestantism would be an understatement. Martin Luther had access to a printing press, which in his day was a bit like having personal access to create a widely-watched TV station. He posted a list on a church door which began protestantism then used his printing press to spread his own message. Of course, his disagreements were with the Catholic church, which he disagreed with on some issues - despite the fact the bible states explicitly its words are not to be changed.

catholicscomehome.org has a lot of information which may be of use to you.

 

[Genesius]

To say Catholicism is the mother of Protestantism would be an understatement. Martin Luther had access to a printing press, which in his day was a bit like having personal access to create a widely-watched TV station. He posted a list on a church door which began protestantism then used his printing press to spread his own message. Of course, his disagreements were with the Catholic church, which he disagreed with on some issues - despite the fact the bible states explicitly its words are not to be changed.

catholicscomehome.org has a lot of information which may be of use to you.

You wrote: “…despite the fact the bible states explicitly its words are not to be changed.”

I’d be interested to know where exactly it explicity states this as it applies to the whole bible? I know some will try using the end of Revelation, but that is only applicable to the book of Revelation. It was written hundreds of years before the NT canon was closed.

 

[Cat_Herder]

You wrote: “…despite the fact the bible states explicitly its words are not to be changed.”

I’d be interested to know where exactly it explicity states this as it applies to the whole bible?

And if it does, how can Martin Luther justify lifting books out of the Bible?

 

[Genesius]

Mcrow wrote: “It should also be noted that Catholics don’t worship Mary,…”

At the risk of confusing non-Catholics I would like to respond to this by copying a response I gave in another thread (“not convinced”) as follows:

Anyway, what I really wanted to address is the issue of “Mary worship”. At the risk of confusing you, I would say that many have already answered that point very well…except…that in a sense we DO worship Mary. The problem lies in the linguistic aspect of the term “worship”. What others here have really been saying is that we don’t “Latria” Mary. You see, there are at least three different terms in the Latin for “worship”. Dulia, Hyperdulia, and Latria. There is another one reserved for honoring Joseph as well, but I forget the title of that one.

The Church teaches that “Latria”, the highest form of honor; what you would call “worship”, is reserved for God alone. “Dulia” is a term referring to the lowest form of honor…but still honor, as applied to all other saints. “Hyperdulia” is a form of honor that is between Dulia and Latria and is specifically designated for the honor of Mary, recognizing that although human only, and not divine, she held a unique role in salvation history; namely, being the ark of the new covenant; the mother of Christ, and therefore, “the mother of God”. Jesus is both human and divine. You cannot separate the two anymore than you can separate the soul and body of you. When I address you I am not addressing just half of you, but the entire you.

In the same way, we recognize that Mary, being the mother of the whole Christ includes the divine part of Christ. That is not to say that she preexisted God, just that she bore God incarnate.

In fact, even in our modern society, in the courts of England to this day the judge is addressed as “your worship” vs. “your honor”. They rightfully recognize the proper use of the term dulia as being synonymous with “worship”.

Hope that helps, and Godbless.

 

[joandarc2008]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

I’m familiar with Catholic defenses of their doctrines, such as the use of the term Father. That’s why in my original post, I used the word “uncomfortable.” For me, it’s not an issue of “prove it to me”. It’s more like learning to like coffee.

I’ve never even stepped foot in a Catholic Church before. At least the Jehovah’s Witnesses come to my door.

I know it sounds like semantics but spend some time around some Franciscans if you have a Franciscan community around your area. Many have causes such as pro-life issues - when are used to addressing men in the Religious life as Brother which I think you will find less uncomfortable then it will be easier later to call a priest Father. Also pro-life causes are something that are pretty ecumenical so it will be something that you will be used to believing in and you will meet some good Catholic men that will be able to answer some of your other questions.

 

[mcrow]

Mcrow wrote: “It should also be noted that Catholics don’t worship Mary,…”

At the risk of confusing non-Catholics I would like to respond to this by copying a response I gave in another thread (“not convinced”) as follows:

Anyway, what I really wanted to address is the issue of “Mary worship”. At the risk of confusing you, I would say that many have already answered that point very well…except…that in a sense we DO worship Mary. The problem lies in the linguistic aspect of the term “worship”. What others here have really been saying is that we don’t “Latria” Mary. You see, there are at least three different terms in the Latin for “worship”. Dulia, Hyperdulia, and Latria. There is another one reserved for honoring Joseph as well, but I forget the title of that one.

The Church teaches that “Latria”, the highest form of honor; what you would call “worship”, is reserved for God alone. “Dulia” is a term referring to the lowest form of honor…but still honor, as applied to all other saints. “Hyperdulia” is a form of honor that is between Dulia and Latria and is specifically designated for the honor of Mary, recognizing that although human only, and not divine, she held a unique role in salvation history; namely, being the ark of the new covenant; the mother of Christ, and therefore, “the mother of God”. Jesus is both human and divine. You cannot separate the two anymore than you can separate the soul and body of you. When I address you I am not addressing just half of you, but the entire you.

In the same way, we recognize that Mary, being the mother of the whole Christ includes the divine part of Christ. That is not to say that she preexisted God, just that she bore God incarnate.

In fact, even in our modern society, in the courts of England to this day the judge is addressed as “your worship” vs. “your honor”. They rightfully recognize the proper use of the term dulia as being synonymous with “worship”.

Hope that helps, and Godbless.

The reason why nobody mentions this is because of the fact that all it does is confuses non-catholics.

In the proper culturally accepted use of the term “Worship”, Catholics most certainly do not worship Marry. End of story.

 

[PJM]

You wrote: “…despite the fact the bible states explicitly its words are not to be changed.”

I’d be interested to know where exactly it explicity states this as it applies to the whole bible? I know some will try using the end of Revelation, but that is only applicable to the book of Revelation. It was written hundreds of years before the NT canon was closed.

Rev. 22: [18] I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, [19] and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. [20] He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! "

**2nd. Peter 1: 20-21 **“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. “

**2Pet.3: 16 **“peaking of this as he [PAUL] in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. “

**Acts.10: 44 **“While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word”

**Eph.1: 13 **“In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

**1Tim.3: 15 **“if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth“. [All SINGULAR] The CC.

**Rom.10: 17 **“So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ”

And friend, let us not forget this:

** 2Tim.3 Verses 15 to 17

[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. [16] ***All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, ***[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. **

“All” does mean “ALL”

God’s continued Blessings,

 

[Genesius]

The reason why nobody mentions this is because of the fact that all it does is confuses non-catholics.

In the proper culturally accepted use of the term “Worship”, Catholics most certainly do not worship Marry. End of story.

So, rather than educate non-Catholics so they are no longer confused, we should just ignore the reality of the term so we don’t confuse (even though they are the ones already confused), in spite of the the fact that it is, and has been, a teaching of the Church for centuries? (LOL…now I’m confused! :ehh

Also, I believe I addressed the “culturally accepted” use of the term when I mentioned it’s rightful use in England, unless by “culturally accepted” you mean what you personally accept culturally. Yes, there are differences both culturally and semantically between Catholics and Protestants. But most of those have stemmed from American culture. The Catholic Church is universal…worldwide. So “culturally” is broader.

But, yes…as Protestants wrongly understand the term “worship” as only “Latria”, we Catholics do not “Latria” Worship Mary…end of story.

 

[Genesius]

Again, PJM, you didn’t answer my question. I said, “…as it applies to the whole Bible.”

Remember, at the time of the writing of the NT letters, they were not yet Scripture, so any reference in the text would have to be applicable only to the OT Scriptures, or when using the phrase “word of God”, could be speaking of the oral tradition. However, I will address each of the verses individually:

Rev. 22:18 - Again, as I stated in the earlier post, this applies ONLY to the book of Revelation. The NT canon had not been compiled yet, nor would be for at least another couple hundred years.

**2nd. Peter 1: 20-21 - **Again, referring to OT Scriptures, but greater context is about the reliability of the apostolic witness.

**2Pet.3: 16 **- This is probably one of your strongest arguments. For here, Paul’s Epistles are referred to as “scripture”. However, at the very most we could say this applies only to the letters of Paul.

Acts.10: 44 “While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word” - Again, what does “the word” refer to? Not to mention anything of changing the words. This is more likely the gospel as the apostles were proclaiming it and it says the Holy Spirit fell on those who heard it. What does that have to do with Scripture (Holy Writ)? Btw, the context here has more to do with Baptism being offered to the Gentiles

**Eph.1: 13 “In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit **- Yes…sealed with Him in Baptism. Again, no mention here of Scripture or changing the words of Scripture.

1Tim.3: 15 “if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth“. [All SINGULAR] The CC. - Yes, I am in total agreement here, but again…no mention of Scripture.

**Rom.10: 17 **“So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ” - But no mention of Scripture, only oral tradition.

And friend, let us not forget this:

**2Tim.3 Verses 15 to 17

[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. [16] ***All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, *[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Again, no mention of NOT changing the words of Scripture, OT or otherwise.

I agree with your sentiment. I don’t think the general message in Scripture should ever be changed, but not because Scripture says so…because the Magisterium says so. Otherwise, it’s a circular argument. Also, you will run into problems when considering the copies of the original autographs. If no WORD was to be changed, well…you’ve got a lot of translations to sift through.