Should I believe everything the CC teaches?

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I’m in rcia and the rcia leader has told us that there is a spectum of beliefs that one can hold being a catholic.So I asked specifically about certain marian doctrine and I got the answer NO.Alot of the people on the rcia team have told me that they don’t believe everything the cc teaches.I had the impression that believes and doctrine are absolute.Am I being too sensative to this?I know were not saved by the doctrine we believe but this seems like what happened in the reformation.
 
Who is teaching your RCIA class - is it a priest, deacon or layperson?

If you hear something you know to be contradictory to Catholic teaching, let your pastor know about it. If you’re going to challenge anything that’s taught in RCIA, make sure you have backup from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (or the Compendium, for a short-form question-and-answer version of the Catechism) and/or sacred Scripture.

By the way, congratulations on your decision to enroll in RCIA!

God Bless,
Dan
 
Hi Teal,

If your RCIA leader states or implies that you can choose what to believe, then he/she is dead wrong, and you should investigate another parish.

What Marian doctrines did you ask about? Maybe we can put some perspective on this.

Verbum
 
I’m in rcia and the rcia leader has told us that there is a spectum of beliefs that one can hold being a catholic.So I asked specifically about certain marian doctrine and I got the answer NO.Alot of the people on the rcia team have told me that they don’t believe everything the cc teaches.I had the impression that believes and doctrine are absolute.Am I being too sensative to this?I know were not saved by the doctrine we believe but this seems like what happened in the reformation.
This is a difficult topic for a beginner, and I don’t think it should be talked about in RCIA where it can confuse people. The answer is “yes and no”.

You are absolutely right that Catholics must give assent to the doctrines of the Church-- they are not negotiable.

But, there is much that is not defined definitively by the Church and Catholics are free to act and believe along a spectrum in those cases.

However, what you specifically asked about-- Marian doctrines-- are part of the defined faith and yes, Catholics are required to believe these things.

I would go have a chat with the RCIA instructor, and if not satisfied, then the priest.

Get a copy of the Catechism, and study it. I am sorry you are having this experience.
 
By the way, I’ve found a great website that explains the justification behind the 4 Marian dogmas (Divine Motherhood, Perpetual Virginity, Immaculate Conception and the Assumption). These are the dogmas Catholics are bound to accept about the Blessed Mother.
 
She is a lay perosn hried.I asked specifically about the perpetual virginity of mary and she said It can be believed that she may not have been.I’m reluctant to say anything because I’m new to the faith(4 months).Basically she said the only thing that is absolute are the profession of faith.I was afraid to even ask about things like contraseptive and stuff.she did say you can’t believe in abortion though.I’m going through an annulment so i won’t switch parishes yet.
 
She is a lay perosn hried.I asked specifically about the perpetual virginity of mary and she said It can be believed that she may not have been.
That’s unfortunate, because that’s dogmatic - in other words, something Catholics must believe about Mary.
I’m reluctant to say anything because I’m new to the faith(4 months).Basically she said the only thing that is absolute are the profession of faith.I was afraid to even ask about things like contraseptive and stuff.she did say you can’t believe in abortion though.I’m going through an annulment so i won’t switch parishes yet.
Actually, the profession of faith (I presume she means the Nicene Creed as we recite it at Mass) is a good summary, but doesn’t contain all the details about what we must believe as Catholics. Many other Christian faiths use the Nicene Creed without believing the same thing we do about the word “Catholic,” for example.
 
I asked specifically about the perpetual virginity of mary and she said It can be believed that she may not have been.I’m reluctant to say anything because I’m new to the faith(4 months).Basically she said the only thing that is absolute are the profession of faith.
you can ask her to say to you the apostles creed because even it says “the virgin Mary”.

That is her title because that is what she was known as, and that is why the creed says so.

find a new parish! the perpetual virginity is a dogma!
 
We must believe EVERYTHING the Church teaches. Everything the Church teaches comes from God, or it is coextensive with the teachings of God, (for example, in vitro fertilization) thus it is not negotiable.

Everything the Church teaches is true. The Church is infallible, meaning she cannot teach error. Since everything the Church teaches is true, we must believe it.

If the Church has not clearly defined or clearly taught something yet, then it is not yet Church teaching and does not have to be believed. But, all the teachings in the catechism that are presented as Church teachings must be believed, all the teachings of the Popes, when clearly put forth as part of God’s revelation, when they teach as the head of the Church, for all Christians, must be believed, everything handed down in Tradition, that the Pope and all bishops have accepted, must be believed, etc.
 
She is a lay perosn hried.I asked specifically about the perpetual virginity of mary and she said It can be believed that she may not have been.I’m reluctant to say anything because I’m new to the faith(4 months).Basically she said the only thing that is absolute are the profession of faith.I was afraid to even ask about things like contraseptive and stuff.she did say you can’t believe in abortion though.I’m going through an annulment so i won’t switch parishes yet.
No, no, no, no no. She should have never said anything like this. Tell your priest, and if he’s like, “ehh, whatever…” find another parish and write a letter to the bishop. I don’t think you would have to stay at that parish just because of your annulment process. Now if she had said something like believing in the visions of Mary, in Fatima, Guadelupe (I think I butchered that sp.), Knock, ect. is not binding on the faithful, then that would have been okay, but Mary’s perpetual virginity is not something that you can take or leave.

Unfortunately, for the past few decades catechesis, at least from what I can tell, has gotten really lax. You almost have to double check everything that is being taught in most parishes, just to make sure you are getting the correct Church teaching. It’s really sad.

My main suggestion for people who are converting, thinking of converting, and actually anyone else is to read, read, read. I’ve been hearing wonderful things about Catholicism for Dummies by Trigilio and (what’s the other guy’s name?). You might want to start with that, from what I’ve heard it’s an easy read.
 
My main suggestion for people who are converting, thinking of converting, and actually anyone else is to read, read, read. I’ve been hearing wonderful things about Catholicism for Dummies by Trigilio and (what’s the other guy’s name?). You might want to start with that, from what I’ve heard it’s an easy read.
Yes, yes, yes - I couldn’t agree more… read selections from the 3-volume Faith of the Early Fathers by Jurgens, the Catechism, Catholicism for Dummies (I haven’t read it either, but what I know of Fr. Trigilio, the book is sure to be rock-solid, and btw, the second author is Fr. Ken Brighenti :)), Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating (especially the latter half of the book in which the focus turns from fundamentalists to teachings of the Catholic Church they usually attack), Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie, and Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham.
 
Yes, yes, yes - I couldn’t agree more… read selections from the 3-volume Faith of the Early Fathers by Jurgens, the Catechism, Catholicism for Dummies (I haven’t read it either, but what I know of Fr. Trigilio, the book is sure to be rock-solid, and btw, the second author is Fr. Ken Brighenti :)), Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating (especially the latter half of the book in which the focus turns from fundamentalists to teachings of the Catholic Church they usually attack), Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie, and Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham.
Yep, yep, yep! Got all of them! Except for Catholicism and Fundamentalism and the aforementioned Catholicism for Dummies! Gotta love Fr. Trigilio!
 
Show this to your RCIA Instructor:

St. Ephrem of Edessa (+373 A.D.)1 :
*"…the rod of Aaron that budded, truly have you appeared as a stem whose flower is your true Son, our Christ, my God and my Maker; you did bear according to the flesh God and the Word, did preserve your virginity before His birth, did remain a virgin after His birth, and we have been reconciled to God by Christ your Son."
***St. Cyril of Jerusalem (+386 A.D.)2 :
***“Of Him Who is God and Man are you the Mother, Virgin before (His) birth, Virgin in birth, and Virgin after birth.”
***St. Jerome (+420 A.D.), Contra Helvidius, i:
***“Suppose that the Brethren of the Lord were Joseph’s sons by another wife. But we understand the Brethren of the Lord to be not the sons of Joseph, but cousins of the Savior, the sons of Mary, his mother’s sister.”
***St. Augustine of Hippo, Holy Virginity (401 A.D.):
***“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than impose it. And He wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom He took upon Himself the form of a slave.”
***St. Augustine of Hippo (+430 A.D.), De Annunt. Dom. iii:
***“It is written (Ezekiel 44, 2): ‘This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall pass through it. Because the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it…’ What means this closed gate in the house of the Lord, except that Mary is to be ever inviolate? What does it mean that ‘no man shall pass through it,’ save that Joseph shall not know her? And what is this - ‘The Lord alone enters in and goeth out by it,’ except that the Holy Ghost shall impregnate her, and that the Lord of Angels shall be born of her? And what means this - ‘It shall be shut for evermore,’ but that Mary is a Virgin before His birth, a Virgin in His birth, and a Virgin after His birth.”
***St. John Chrysostom (+407 A.D.), Opus Imperf. in Matt., Hom. 1 (?):
***“Joseph did not know her, until she gave birth, being unaware of her dignity: but after she had given birth, then did he know her (by way of acquaintance). Because by reason of her child she surpassed the whole world in beauty and dignity: Since she alone in the narrow abode of her womb received him whom the world cannot contain.”
*Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566):
He is born of His Mother without any diminution of her maternal virginity, just as He afterwards went forth from the sepulcher while it was closed and sealed, and entered the room in which His disciples were assembled, the doors being shut; or, not to depart from every-day examples, just as the rays of the sun penetrate without breaking or injuring in the least the solid substance of glass, so after a like but more exalted manner did Jesus Christ come forth from His mother’s womb without injury to her maternal virginity. This immaculate and perpetual virginity forms, therefore, the just theme of our eulogy. Such was the work of the Holy Ghost, who at the Conception and birth of the Son so favored the Virgin Mother as to impart to her fecundity while preserving inviolate her perpetual virginity.
**Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992):
Mary - “ever-virgin”
No. 499: **The deepening of faith in the virginal motherhood led the Church to confess Mary’s real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made man. In fact, Christ’s birth “did not diminish His Mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it.” And so the liturgy of the Church celebrates Mary as Aeiparthenos, the “Ever-virgin.”
**No. 500: **Against this doctrine the objection is sometimes raised that the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus. The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, “brothers of Jesus,” are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls “the other Mary.” They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression.
**No. 501: **Jesus is Mary’s Son, but her spiritual motherhood extends to all men whom indeed he came to save: “The Son whom she brought forth is he whom God placed as the first-born among many brethren, that is, the faithful in whose generation and formulation she co-operates with a mother’s love.”
 
Your RCIA director is a Protestant masquerading as a Catholic. She has set herself up as the final authority on Church doctrines. It is a very human failing.

Always, when pondering these questions, go back to what the Church is, what she claims to be. If she is indeed the Church founded by Christ, in which has been placed the authority to bind and loose heaven itself, and to which it has been promised that she would be led into all truth and that the gates of hades would not prevail against her, then what possible good can come of rejecting her teachings?

Understand that it is one thing to form opinions in matters about which the Church does not taught. Limbo is a good current example. Nowhere was Limbo taught as an article of the faith, even if it became a popular belief. But she has taught on the question of Mary’s ever-virginity. People oppose it because they can’t imagine a marriage without sex. So much opposition to the Church has a basis in sex; it is the obsession of the age.

Anyway, consider this. When is it proper for a woman to bear the children of two different fathers? When the first father dies? But God never died. When the first father abandons mother and child? Did God ever abandon Mary and Jesus?

Consider this as well. If Mary had other children, how could Christ possibly have given her over to an unrelated man to spend the rest of her days? How could He have torn her away from her very own children at this moment of her greatest grief? If that would not be dishonoring His mother, what could be?
 
Basically she said the only thing that is absolute are the profession of faith.
When I was in R.C.I.A., I was told the same thing - by a Nun!
Further, when I once got into a “discussion” with another candidate regarding abortion (the other person said that we should not "judge" a person’s decision on abortion*), *the same Nun told me that I need to realize that “not all Catholics are opposed to abortion”, to which I replied, “then they are not Catholic”. Boy!, did I get some nasty looks!
It was then that I knew that I was going to have do A LOT of study about the Faith on my own, and just ride through R.C.I.A.
 
you can ask her to say to you the apostles creed because even it says “the virgin Mary”.

That is her title because that is what she was known as, and that is why the creed says so.

find a new parish! the perpetual virginity is a dogma!
The line “Born of the virgin Mary” does not tell you that she was EVER virgin. Protestants believe that Mary was virgin when Christ was born, but that she also bore other children.

But yes, you are obligated to believe what the Church teaches as dogma.
 
This is a difficult topic for a beginner, and I don’t think it should be talked about in RCIA where it can confuse people. The answer is “yes and no”.

You are absolutely right that Catholics must give assent to the doctrines of the Church-- they are not negotiable.

But, there is much that is not defined definitively by the Church and Catholics are free to act and believe along a spectrum in those cases.

However, what you specifically asked about-- Marian doctrines-- are part of the defined faith and yes, Catholics are required to believe these things.

I would go have a chat with the RCIA instructor, and if not satisfied, then the priest.

Get a copy of the Catechism, and study it. I am sorry you are having this experience.
This is essentially correct. There are also disciplinary rules set down by the Church that the Catholic can disagree with. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t required to follow them, it just means that there is some room for debate. Priestly celibacy is one of these. The rule can be changed. Even though you can believe that it is a bad idea, it doesn’t mean that as a priest you can stop following the rule.

So you see, there is some room for disagreement. Nevertheless, the Marian dogmas are not up for discussion. These teachings are binding on the conscience of the Catholic. I think your RCIA instructor just made a mistake on that one. Everybody makes mistakes, and I don’t think it makes sense to blow it out of proportion. Just go ahead and point it out and try to enjoy what you are learning from all of this. 🙂
 
I’m definately not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.I don’t think you can definately blame it on the parish either.Their does seem to be a luthern element to this.A few times a comment was made about luther being right on what he did.She is a wonderful lady though she spent all summer in mexico doing missionary work.I’m not sure how other people feel but seems most people in the class are either already catholic or there just because of a spouce.Some don’t seem really happy to be there either.i’m just going to soak up as much as possible and maybe if the subject comes up I might make a private objection.
 
I’m definately not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.I don’t think you can definately blame it on the parish either.Their does seem to be a luthern element to this.A few times a comment was made about luther being right on what he did.She is a wonderful lady though she spent all summer in mexico doing missionary work.I’m not sure how other people feel but seems most people in the class are either already catholic or there just because of a spouce.Some don’t seem really happy to be there either.i’m just going to soak up as much as possible and maybe if the subject comes up I might make a private objection.
God bless you, teal! Should you decide to speak with her about her assertions about the “rightness” of Martin Luther, this article would help:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a43.htm
 
Until you got to the explaining what she said about Mary I had assumed that maybe it was misunderstanding.

However, it sounds like your instructer needs to do some research. I’m in RCIA too and I’ve occasionally run into inaccuracies in doctrine. Though in my case it isn’t as extreme and I think it has more to do with people just not knowing. It can be difficult sometimes as I feel strange elaborating on doctrine or correcting when I’m the one that’s supposed to be getting the instruction.

As was wisely stated before read books on doctrine and read the bible while in this process. In the end you may have too pull yourself through the process of initiation but there can be rewards in that. It certainly doesn’t hurt to get in the habit of study.
 
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