Should I call?

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awfulthings9

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I debated which forum to place this. On the surface it is a question about Jehovah’s Witnesses, but at the core it’s a general evangelization question.

Over a month ago the JW’s stopped by for a “Bible study”. They had visited us earlier, and I agreed to the study.

We had a very civil (I would go so far as to say friendly) discussion, which ended on excellent terms. However, as far as the content, it didn’t go very well at all for them. I don’t say this to brag, fully acknowledging the work of the Holy Spirit in anything positive that happened, but it’s necessary, in order to preface my question, to say that their arguments and propositions really fell apart during the conversation. Several times they told me, “We’ll have to get back with you.” The conversation focused on foundation more than doctrine.

Anyway, it’s been over a month now and nothing. One dropped by a few days later to drop off a book that he thought might answer some of the questions I posed (it didn’t), but I’ve heard nothing else.

I have the phone number from one of the visitors. He called me before our first meeting to make sure I’d be home. I’m starting to think they don’t intend to come back. I’m curious how many of you would suggest I call him to see if he and his partner might have an opportunity to come by and continue our study. After all, they did contact me first and did promise to get back with me.

Or maybe it just takes this long for a follow-up and I should be patient.

Or maybe I should just leave it in God’s hands at this point (not to imply it wasn’t in his hands from the beginning).

Thoughts?
 
I’d call to give him the opportunity of saying he doesn’t want to continue your studying together. He probably hasn’t gotten back to you because he doesn’t want to jeopardize his own beliefs. That seems the most likely scenario, although he may have family problems or some other issue that has kept him from getting back to you.
 
I talked with some Mormon missionaries a while ago, and invited them to come back with their book of Mormon - they haven’t.

Catholig
 
Hello everyone.

I have a google alert set to “jehovah’s witnesses” and get emails when someone has posts something about them or there is news about them.

As for the original post I just want to share my personal experience. Having been born into and raised in the religion. Being out now for nearly 20 years, but still being shunned by all I ever knew growing up, including parents and siblings.

The average JW is trained to reject anything said that is negative as a test from Satan himself! They close their minds to anything that is contrary to the Watchtower Society.

JW’s are willing to severe ties with their own flesh and blood as well as let them die by avoiding life saving medical procedures because their leaders tell them to.

JW’s rarely quote the thought from the bible, judge not less you be judged but instead constantly preach the scripture about leaving ones own child or parent if they do not agree with their teachings. Both teachings come from the same book.

JW’s have a fragile belief system and an equally fragile world view that won’t stand up out of context. As long as reality isn’t acknowledged, and a replacement pseudo-reality is in place and supported by peers, the storybook concept seems real and the JW person functions.
 
lisa2 said:
Hello everyone.

I have a google alert set to “jehovah’s witnesses” and get emails when someone has posts something about them or there is news about them.

As for the original post I just want to share my personal experience. Having been born into and raised in the religion. Being out now for nearly 20 years, but still being shunned by all I ever knew growing up, including parents and siblings.

The average JW is trained to reject anything said that is negative as a test from Satan himself! They close their minds to anything that is contrary to the Watchtower Society.

JW’s are willing to severe ties with their own flesh and blood as well as let them die by avoiding life saving medical procedures because their leaders tell them to.

JW’s rarely quote the thought from the bible, judge not less you be judged but instead constantly preach the scripture about leaving ones own child or parent if they do not agree with their teachings. Both teachings come from the same book.

JW’s have a fragile belief system and an equally fragile world view that won’t stand up out of context. As long as reality isn’t acknowledged, and a replacement pseudo-reality is in place and supported by peers, the storybook concept seems real and the JW person functions.
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Lisa2
First of all, welcome to the boards.
It’s interesting to hear from you on this topic.

Based on your understanding and experience do you think the OP should call or let it go?

James
 
awfulthings9 said:
I debated which forum to place this. On the surface it is a question about Jehovah’s Witnesses, but at the core it’s a general evangelization question.

Over a month ago the JW’s stopped by for a “Bible study”. They had visited us earlier, and I agreed to the study.

We had a very civil (I would go so far as to say friendly) discussion, which ended on excellent terms. However, as far as the content, it didn’t go very well at all for them. I don’t say this to brag, fully acknowledging the work of the Holy Spirit in anything positive that happened, but it’s necessary, in order to preface my question, to say that their arguments and propositions really fell apart during the conversation. Several times they told me, “We’ll have to get back with you.” The conversation focused on foundation more than doctrine.

Anyway, it’s been over a month now and nothing. One dropped by a few days later to drop off a book that he thought might answer some of the questions I posed (it didn’t), but I’ve heard nothing else.

I have the phone number from one of the visitors. He called me before our first meeting to make sure I’d be home. I’m starting to think they don’t intend to come back. I’m curious how many of you would suggest I call him to see if he and his partner might have an opportunity to come by and continue our study. After all, they did contact me first and did promise to get back with me.

Or maybe it just takes this long for a follow-up and I should be patient.

Or maybe I should just leave it in God’s hands at this point (not to imply it wasn’t in his hands from the beginning).

Thoughts?
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chances are, they saw that your were proving them wrong and wont come back because they only listen to the falsetower governing body in matters like that. if you can prove them wrong which you did, they wont come back. its rare if they do. the society tells people in situations like that where they are proven wrong, that it is best to shake the dust off their boots and not go back because you only listen to what the falsetower teaches and nothing else. so don’t count on them coming back. if you call, it might be seen as trying to get them out of the falsetower, on the other hand, you can request that an elder come to your house. but be prepared for some stiff opposition to your evangelizing the elder. the elders are very quick and sneaky. they have more knowledge than the regular jw. they have practically every quick response to anything you can throw at them. so if you want an elder over there, be prepared for some real scripture quoting. use their own bible to point out their errors. if your well versed in what is in their bible, and well versed in the early church fathers and so on in our belief, which by the way you can go to CAF library here and print out what the early church fathers had to say. look under non catholic religions. the jw’s are in there. print out the stumpers for them. get yourself if you don’t have a copy of it, answering jehovah’s witnesses by jason evert. read that book before you call them. and also get yourself pillar of fire pillar of truth. and do some scripture look ups to. be prepared in advance. go through what they believe, but do it scripturally. go through each scripture, write it down. if they attack you about the blood issue, look it up in scripture, and show them they are wrong right from scripture. same thing if they ask you about the Trinity. be prepared to refute it and prove the Trinity from the Bible. same thing about each thing they believe. start small. look up their core beliefs, go through the Bible, and write down everything you can to prove from the Bible that their belief is wrong. i have done it many a time. as soon as you prove it to them, no matter how charitable you are, they often wont come back because they are told not to accept anything that is not watchtower related.
 
Hey all,

Thanks for the responses.

I called about an hour ago. Got voicemail. No return call just yet. I’ll update later.

For the record, I’m pretty well versed in the JW doctrine, supporting Scripture and opposing Scripture. I don’t say this to brag, but since others suggested becoming acquainted with such, I thought it was good to mention so that if new apologists are reading, I can reinforce the importance of being prepared.

God bless,
S.A.
 
awfulthings9 said:
Hey all,

Thanks for the responses.

I called about an hour ago. Got voicemail. No return call just yet. I’ll update later.

For the record, I’m pretty well versed in the JW doctrine, supporting Scripture and opposing Scripture. I don’t say this to brag, but since others suggested becoming acquainted with such, I thought it was good to mention so that if new apologists are reading, I can reinforce the importance of being prepared.

God bless,
S.A.
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oh that is a delight to hear!!! iam delighted that your well versed! good on ya!
 
You know, in the meantime, I thought I would give some background

The last time I met with the JW’s, about two years ago, the conversation got very intense - heated. We ended with a big hug, but each of us (myself and a husband and wife team) went for the jugulars. For me, it was more about the debate than about evangelization.

I’ve matured quite a bit as an apologist over the last couple of years and have really taken it to heart that I’m trying to win souls and not arguments, so when this recent exchange went so well (in terms of tone and respect), I really hoped that it would lead into more. One of the things I still struggle with is letting God be in control. I hope the fact that I’m admitting that shows that, intellectually, I know my place as his servant, but in my heart, my old stubborness insists that I have to “win”.

So … should I not get a call back, I understand that it’s probably God’s way of training me just a bit more to understand that I can only plant seeds, and that the hard work is his.

-S.A.
 
JRKH said:
Lisa2
First of all, welcome to the boards.
It’s interesting to hear from you on this topic.

Based on your understanding and experience do you think the OP should call or let it go?

James
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Thank you for the Welcome.

She should call…(i know she did…but she should do it again:p )

Draw attention to the fact that she failed to return like she said she would.

I’ve had several fake ‘bible studies’ over the years with JW’s that didn’t know I was an exJW.

Eventually they always quit coming, simply because I asked questions that they didn’t/don’t have the answers. And I didn’t/won’t fall inline. I refused to agree on many things.😃 🤷

I know I planted seeds of doubt…At least one quit going to the meetings. …But I do wonder if she’s happy now, or if she is living with fear and guilt. 😦

lisa
 
I wish something like this would have happened to me when I was in. Very cool. The Thursday night JW indoctrinazation classes never role played any scenarios where the JW’s stood wanting.

I never had anyone when I was door knocking go through the trouble of showing me how ludicrous is all was. I mean I knew it was just in my gut, but never from a historic Christian perspective. Since I was a kid I am sure I would not have been able to get the information anyway. But it would have been interesting to run into when I was in.
 
awfulthings9 said:
You know, in the meantime, I thought I would give some background

The last time I met with the JW’s, about two years ago, the conversation got very intense - heated. We ended with a big hug, but each of us (myself and a husband and wife team) went for the jugulars. **For me, it was more about the debate **than about evangelization.

-S.A.
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Boy do I hear you.
Many years ago, as I was idependently studying faith, and spirituality I discovered the “missing books” issue. To me this was a temendous revelation and one of the things that ultimately led me back to the Church. - But I digress - -

I soon discovered that very few evangelical types of any faith were aware of this fact. I used it to great advantage when the “Bible Thumpers” would start.

“The Bible is God’s perfect Word”, says he.
“Which Bible?”, says I.
(Look of consternation)
“THE BIBLE!!”, says he.
“Which translation?”, says I.
“King James.”, says he.
“Oh the one missing 7 plus books.”, says I pulling out my Bible.

That usually stops them right there. If it didn’t I would keep at this idea of, “If the Bible is complete and inalterable, then why has it been altered?”. Like I said most have no idea how vulnerable they are on that subject. I actually sent some JW’s on their way shaking their heads. Talked them right off my porch.

My intent at the time was to get them to think outside the narrow confines of what they were taught. Outside the confines of “The Bible”. It surprises me how many people take this core collection of works and makes it almost an idol. But that’s a different subject.

Anyway - now that I got carried away (again) I have tried to get away from the “debate for debates sake” mentality and be more understanding and tolerant of others positions.

Best of luck if they come back and keep us informed.

James
 
awfulthings9 said:
Just for the record: “he”.
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opps…sorry about that. 😃

It might be totally different for a man studying…No elders ever came to speak with me.

I had already pre-warned my husband that if elders did show up, he’d have to sit in with me.

I also tried to get my husband to sit in on the BS with the sisters…I wanted to see if they’d cover their heads. He wouldn’t play along. :shrug
 
OMG! I cant belive this you are actually doing that!😃 👍
I only thell the JW when they ask me:
Do you want to life forever in earth? No I don´t. They usually left thinking I have a tail and horns.🤷
Or when I tell them they got the wrong name for GOD.
Or when I touch the missing books issue. I gets the fundies every time!:cool:
 
everything Lisa2 said is 110% correct (and Trad C and Just B). It is a waste of precious time to try to witness to JWs in this manner.

One thing that outsiders do not understand is the lingo—a Bible Study to a JW is a CONVERT, not an innocent exchange of ideas. You are promoting their false cult and allowing them to count the time they spend with you as their ministry and NOTHING you say will penetrate their minds or hearts. I was a regualr pioneer for 15 years—1000 hours a year not including prep time to knock on doors. JWs are trained 5 meetings a week and everyday before ‘service’ to convert you. The indoctrination is impenetrable. You are not planting seeds. They consider everything that comes out of your mouth or from your Bibles to be the words of Satan himself.

The ONLY thing that will break a JW is a personal crisis that allows room for doubts. And believe me the doubts are always there—the beliefs are so ridiculous—you are not putting them into anyone’s head for them. JWs are trained to recognize and suppress the doubts, so they are well aware of the arguments against their beliefs, it is part and parcel of their training.
Please don’t promote this dangerous cult by encouraging their ministry with what you think is a ministry of your own in this manner without preparation from a good apologetic like Jeff Schwehm’s website. JWs will twist it all against you and it will only make them more determined to keep believing their own lies.

Do not call them, thank God you got away from them so easily. That Bible Study to you is not what it was to them. To a JW you as good as told them you want to stop being Catholic and want to become a JW—because if you told them you had no intentions of converting they would not show up. Which is probably what happened. They only want converts. All their friendliness and good will is based on your conversion, they will drop you like a hot potato once your true motives are discerned. These people are willing to sacrifice family for their cult. Don’t be fooled.
 
I personally would have waited untill the next publication hits. Then I would have called with a question about the new magazine.

For instance, in the November 15 2007 issue, page 23 right hand column,
Be Patient Without Wasting Time paragraph states:

12 Patience is another quality that helps us to make disciples. Our Christian message calls for urgent action, but making disciples often takes considerable time and requires patience.
then later in
14

Even though we are patient, the word does not bear fruit in most people with whom we study the Bible. (Matthew 13:18-23) After making reasonable efforts to assist them, therefore, we wisely stop spending time with such individuals…

I would ask, which group am I in now?😛
 
Ravyn_Guiliani said:
Please don’t promote this dangerous cult by encouraging their ministry with what you think is a ministry of your own in this manner without preparation from a good apologetic like Jeff Schwehm’s website. … Do not call them, thank God you got away from them so easily. That Bible Study to you is not what it was to them.
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I appreciate the advice here, but don’t you think that your post, especially the part I’ve quoted is being quite presumptious. Phrases such as “what you think is a ministry of your own” and the assumption that I didn’t know the intent of their Bible study makes me appear to be a complete dunce who is in over his head. The fact that I haven’t spent time detailing my extensive research doesn’t mean that I haven’t done so. I take apologetics very seriously and have always prepared myself well, whether the conversation be with a Church of Christ preacher or a door-to-door missionary.

Secondly, maybe I’m the only one who thinks this, but your advice seems to give them a free pass. In my opinion, the hour and a half I spend with them keeps them from an hour and a half of knocking on other doors, doors that belong to people who might be less prepared and more vunerable. In addition, while your experience is different, quite a number of conversion stories from JW’s indicate that when they’ve met with knowledgeable Christians, the conversation made small cracks in the foundation. This happened enough that, when a personal crisis hit, the groundwork had been laid to doubt the JW religion as a whole. What if I had just politely turned them away and missed the chance to be God’s tool in creating a crack in that foundation?
 
awfulthings9 said:
I appreciate the advice here, but don’t you think that your post, especially the part I’ve quoted is being quite presumptious. …

Secondly, maybe I’m the only one who thinks this, but your advice seems to give them a free pass. In my opinion, the hour and a half I spend with them keeps them from an hour and a half of knocking on other doors, doors that belong to people who might be less prepared and more vunerable. In addition, while your experience is different, quite a number of conversion stories from JW’s indicate that when they’ve met with knowledgeable Christians, the conversation made small cracks in the foundation. This happened enough that, when a personal crisis hit, the groundwork had been laid to doubt the JW religion as a whole. What if I had just politely turned them away and missed the chance to be God’s tool in creating a crack in that foundation?
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yeah my post did sound kinda snobbish, I didn’t mean it to. I get terse when it comes to JWs. I was third generation and a 15 yr pioneer–so for me it is kind of ‘been there done that twice’.
sorry I did not mean for it to come out so facetious.

and yes the advantage is that while you might be wasting your time you are definitely wasting their time. If you have the energy for that-go for it. But it can be a downer. Just don’t expect much.

but I still stand on what I said about doubts—all the doubts are already there. They spend much time on how to handle doubt in themselves by repressing it–they are taught how to get rid of doubts. So there will not be any epiphanies coming from the outside. Like I said it has to be a personal crisis to hit you right in the face and knock you on your butt to bring the doubts to the fore.

I only meant that you might be thinking your ministry is making more of a difference than it actually is. Just don’t let them fool you. They are only talking to you at all because they believe you are a candidate for conversion.
 
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