Should I call?

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SerenaHC said:
This book goes on to show how to make the JWs aware that, by their own criteria, it’s impossible for the WTS to truly be what they claim to be, i.e., God’s mouthpiece.
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I assume it is because of failed prophesies such as these:

Wednesday, September 26, 2007
“It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose.” (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses, p. 85.)
Pasted from <carm.org/jw/jwquotes.htm>

**1908 “True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved” (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99) **

Pasted from <towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm>

**1915 The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overturned about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity. (The Time Is At Hand, 1915 edition, p. 242) **

Pasted from <towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm>

**1918 “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection.” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89) **

Pasted from <towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm>

**1923 ‘1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures…the Christian has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge’ (Watchtower April 1, 1923, p. 106) **

**1923 “Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge.” (Watchtower, p. 106, March 1, 1923) **

Pasted from <towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm>

**1922 ‘1914 ended the Gentile Times…The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures…by then the great crisis will be reached and probably passed’ (Watchtower Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262) **

Pasted from <towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm>

1943 “Man cannot by airplane or rockets or other means get above the air envelope which is about our earthly globe…”(The Truth Shall Make you Free, p. 285, 1943 edition)

Pasted from <towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm>
 
JRKH said:
Boy do I hear you.
Many years ago, as I was idependently studying faith, and spirituality I discovered the “missing books” issue. To me this was a temendous revelation and one of the things that ultimately led me back to the Church. - But I digress - -

I soon discovered that very few evangelical types of any faith were aware of this fact. I used it to great advantage when the “Bible Thumpers” would start.

“The Bible is God’s perfect Word”, says he.
“Which Bible?”, says I.
(Look of consternation)
“THE BIBLE!!”, says he.
“Which translation?”, says I.
“King James.”, says he.
“Oh the one missing 7 plus books.”, says I pulling out my Bible.

That usually stops them right there. If it didn’t I would keep at this idea of, “If the Bible is complete and inalterable, then why has it been altered?”. Like I said most have no idea how vulnerable they are on that subject. I actually sent some JW’s on their way shaking their heads. Talked them right off my porch.

My intent at the time was to get them to think outside the narrow confines of what they were taught. Outside the confines of “The Bible”. It surprises me how many people take this core collection of works and makes it almost an idol. But that’s a different subject.

Anyway - now that I got carried away (again) I have tried to get away from the “debate for debates sake” mentality and be more understanding and tolerant of others positions.

Best of luck if they come back and keep us informed.

James
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I know that it’s some time since this article appeared, but I’m very interested on anything re JW’s as I have found that many of them are ex-Catholics.

I don’t mind using the King (NT) James version with them as it quite plainly shows that their New World translation ( both English & their Greek texts ) are badly flawed.

I also was told, by them, that the King James version was a “good translation” so I point out that they must then see the falsehood in the JW translation of John 1:1 “the Word was a god”
Also John Chapters 14 Through 17, clearly showing that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person, in a Trinity of ONE GOD.
I could go on. It is important in dealing with JW’s to be friendly, while insisting on they allowing you to also say your piece. The Holy Spirit does indeed guide but His guidance comes particularly through the NewTestament and most assuredly The Gospel of John, in particular.
Peace & Love,
Tiree
 
Hello,
I have an idea. The leaders at the watchtower of the jw’s don’t want or like their beliefs challenged, right? So, if the watchtower is the problem, then the watchtower has to be braught down. And here’s how maybe we can do it. First of all you gotta get their phone number off www.watchtower.org and their address. Next, use skype or some other voip service internet telephone service that does not allow for them to trace the number. Next, we should all give them a call and bombard the watchtower itself with our beliefs and also we send out mass mailings to thw watchtower, we send out so many that they cannot destroy them all and someone will have to read them. We get all the catholic literature we can, and then throw it at them. We don’t yell at them or be mean to them, we just bombard them with so much catholic data that their jw beliefs just fall apart under the pressure. In edition, we should have all the catholics and closely related religions perhaps even Lutherns and others hold a gigantic prayer services for them at the same time all around the world. While this is going on, others can continue bombarding the watchtower with phone calls and postal mail. See, with technology these days, we don’t even need a human on the line, only a few to answer questions. We could set up the computers to make the calls for us, using the most advanced human-sounding text to speech technology such as the Acapela Pro voices sold at www.nextup.com :: the scansoft voices take your pick…as long as they are understandable, we have the computers call the watchtower. Then a speech recognition engine listens to who is speaking and determines whether the message is being answered by machine or by a human. And then based on that information, the computer then listens to the jw’s questions and looks up the answers for them, and if the computer cannot understand, then it’s transferred over to someone who can answer. But right away the computer just starts comparing catholic beliefs and pointing out the flaws in the jw beliefs using its text to speech software interfaced to a phone application which uses speech recognition and text to speech output. That, combined with snail mail, and constant bombardment of catholic information should be enough to destabalise the jw’s and bring them to a halt. Also don’t forget praying for them.

Josh
 
Josh,
It’s not a very good idea to go bombarding people with info. You’ll get better mileage by using your last statement - Praying for them.

Reading and knowing the Gospels, Acts and the Letters have all the wisdom and knowledge required to bring them to the truth - through the Holy Spirit and their response to Him, our prayers, and God’s timing 🙂
Tiree
 
awfulthings9 said:
An update:

The JW’s called today, responding to the letter I sent. We’re meeting next Monday. If you look at the date of my original post, you’ll see the time that has passed. His excuse over the phone: they’ve been busy building a new Kingdom Hall.
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duck-pucky. they build Kingdom Halls in 2 days. They are famous for it.
 
My Dear.
I feel you want to call, so do it you feel better.
Bea:thumbsup:
.
 
Beatriz_Moucha said:
My Dear.
I feel you want to call, so do it you feel better.
Bea:thumbsup:
.
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I did. You may not have read the whole thread yet, but I posted the “should I call” question back in October or November and they are just now getting back to me.

But you are right. I do feel better.
 
awfulthings9 said:
I debated which forum to place this. On the surface it is a question about Jehovah’s Witnesses, but at the core it’s a general evangelization question.
I am a convert, and was a Mormon Missionary a long while back…a quite successful one as well. To bring your JW conversion process to an end…just give them their books back and ask them to take you off their list of people. “Please, do not return” should be said at the end. Then shut your door, even if they are talking. If they leave their book(s) on your dootstep, toss them into the trash outside. A few dogs running around the front yard behibd a “BAD DOG” sign always worked wonders with e, hahahaha! 🙂

You mistakenly view it as a Bible Study. It is not a Bible Study and is not created to be so. It is a gradual step by step conversion process and you are the goal. "Warning Will Robbins, Warning!! End it politely and tell them to go away.

Or you will join the collective and become a Borg. 🙂

Don in Vegas…

Don in Vegas
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[To bring your JW conversion process to an end…just give them their books back and ask them to take you off their list of people. “Please, do not return” should be said at the end. Then shut your door, even if they are talking. If they leave their book(s) on your dootstep, toss them into the trash outside. A few dogs running around the front yard behibd a “BAD DOG” sign always worked wonders with e, hahahaha! 🙂
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But I don’t desire for it to come to an end. The point of this thread is that they appear to the be the ones trying to end the study, and I wanted to invite them back. I’ve met with the JW’s twice, and it has gone very poorly for them each time (1 Cor. 1:31).
You mistakenly view it as a Bible Study. It is not a Bible Study and is not created to be so. It is a gradual step by step conversion process and you are the goal.
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No, I’ve never made that mistake. I’ve preceded these conversations with enough study that I know exactly what it was meant to be, which is why I controlled the conversation from the start. Again, I’m good at what I do (only because I’ve put myself to extensive study and allowed the Holy Spirit to use me as a tool). I’ve met with enough local preachers and door-to-door missionaries and the truth of Catholicism has always stood firm. I’ve read the most anti-Catholic literature out there, as well as the most convincing books that many of these groups have to offer. I can assure you that these missionaries won’t have much new to offer, but in our conversations, I have given them arguments they haven’t considered before.
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Call. JW are people too. Tell them you were concerned and wanted to make sure they were all right. Evangelism is about people showing people where God is.

You will be able to tell if they are still interested. Don’t wonder about such things.
 
THE UPDATE:

A two hour conversation. I invited a friend, but instructed him to just observe as we didn’t need too many voices.

It didn’t go well for them, and my friend summed up afterward by saying that it recreated, for him, his college conversion. It wasn’t so much what I said, he explained, but their lack of answers, their dishonesty, and the way they changed the subject every time I made a point.

In the end, we got to a point where they couldn’t answer why their organization, if guided by God, has made so many errors in teachings and prophesies, why the translation is so riddled with liberties with the Greek, or why the early Christians are silent on any distinct JW teachings.

Finally, after a little soliloque about how we will have to answer for our search for the truth (and how we guided our children), I invited them to join me in exploring the early Church to see:

  1. *]what the early Christians believed
    *]what organization selected the books in their Bible
    *]what other teachings that organization was responsible for
    While one outright rejected this offer (this was the elder who was brought in), the other man started to accept, which was when his handler shut down the conversation with a look at his watch and an announcement about how the time has gotten away from us.

    In the end, I got their individual e-mail addresses and sent the one guy, who had started to show a willingness to study more, an e-mail about how much I appreciated his sincerity and the respect he gave my questions.

    Pray for them. And me.
 
awfulthings9 said:
I debated which forum to place this. On the surface it is a question about Jehovah’s Witnesses, but at the core it’s a general evangelization question.

Over a month ago the JW’s stopped by for a “Bible study”. They had visited us earlier, and I agreed to the study.

We had a very civil (I would go so far as to say friendly) discussion, which ended on excellent terms. However, as far as the content, it didn’t go very well at all for them. I don’t say this to brag, fully acknowledging the work of the Holy Spirit in anything positive that happened, but it’s necessary, in order to preface my question, to say that their arguments and propositions really fell apart during the conversation. Several times they told me, “We’ll have to get back with you.” The conversation focused on foundation more than doctrine.

Anyway, it’s been over a month now and nothing. One dropped by a few days later to drop off a book that he thought might answer some of the questions I posed (it didn’t), but I’ve heard nothing else.

I have the phone number from one of the visitors. He called me before our first meeting to make sure I’d be home. I’m starting to think they don’t intend to come back. I’m curious how many of you would suggest I call him to see if he and his partner might have an opportunity to come by and continue our study. After all, they did contact me first and did promise to get back with me.

Or maybe it just takes this long for a follow-up and I should be patient.

Or maybe I should just leave it in God’s hands at this point (not to imply it wasn’t in his hands from the beginning).

Thoughts?
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I would leave it alone. I have found that if you stand up to the JWs and show that you know their faith, they generally don’t come back. They prey on the weak (unfortunately, they aren’t alone in this–many more orthodox Christians do the same thing, and it doesn’t seem predatory when you are convinced you have the truth). I don’t see what you will accomplish by pursuing them.

Edwin
 
awfulthings9 said:
THE UPDATE:

A two hour conversation…In the end, I got their individual e-mail addresses and sent the one guy, who had started to show a willingness to study more, an e-mail about how much I appreciated his sincerity and the respect he gave my questions.

Pray for them. And me.
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Awesome! The elder won’t be able to shut down his emails. This is great! Best of luck!👍
 
SerenaHC said:
Awesome! The elder won’t be able to shut down his emails. This is great! Best of luck!👍
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Thanks. Hopefully the Holy Spirit will move his heart to begin a study. I’ve already dialogued a bit with the “elder” on John 1:1, and I imagine our next step would be a discussion of God. I haven’t heard back from Jack, the guy who seemed to let down his guard a bit, but I’ll post here if I do.
 
Okay, I suspect the well-informed Catholic is being ignored through e-mail. The elder e-mailed me once to write about John 1, and after my polite rebuttal, I’ve not heard back. Jack, with whom I was most hopeful to have conversation, has never responded once. I’m sure he was told to let the other handle the conversation.

Oh well, I’ve definitely rattled the foundation a bit, then. Hopefully God guides them to the right door to meet up with another informed Catholic who can shake them up a bit more.
 
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