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Country_Gal
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Good advise
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TryingToLearn
Guest
Some good and some bad advice in this thread. But, more importantly no one has given you the most important advice when it comes to friendships, relationships, love, dating, courting, and making decisions about the future:
Pray.
Ask God’s guidance in how He wants you to treat his daughter, how He wishes you to see her and relate with her and what He wants and has planned for you.
It’s not a game. She isn’t an object to be pursued and won, or rejected if you can’t get what you want out of the situation. She is one of God’s daughters and you are His son and He has great plans for both of you and will lead you, if you ask and trust in His guidance.
Pray.
Ask God’s guidance in how He wants you to treat his daughter, how He wishes you to see her and relate with her and what He wants and has planned for you.
It’s not a game. She isn’t an object to be pursued and won, or rejected if you can’t get what you want out of the situation. She is one of God’s daughters and you are His son and He has great plans for both of you and will lead you, if you ask and trust in His guidance.
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on_the_hill
Guest
I think you’re making things up.
A woman makes the decision not to pursue a deeper relationship with a man. The man, in this case, has few options. He can hope she changes her mind, or he can accept that she made the decision not to pursue a deeper relationship with him.
She owes him nothing in either case.
How is recognizing these facts: she decided against him, she owes him nothing, if she changes her mind he ought to discern why she changed her mind, disrespectful of the sacramental view of life and marriage?
Furthermore, how is saying that one is in the friend zone out of place in Christian dating? I have enjoyed deep friendships with several women in my life, none of which were romantic. Is it out of place in “Christian dating” to say, “Mona is my friend. We eat breakfast together. We study together. She showed me her wedding dress?” How can that be out of place in Christian dating when there is no dating?
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styrgwillidar
Guest
It is based on the way he is defining the term ‘friend zone’. That is, his interpretation or the way he has heard it used-- “…based on the ridiculous theory that a woman owes a man a romantic relationship just for the man being doting and attentive.”
Which is contrary to the way I’ve heard it used. Not with any expectation of what a woman owes anyone, just as a simple statement of fact that a particular man has been categorized by a particular woman as a friend. That man than must recognize and respect he will always be nothing more than a friend to that woman and accept it.
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OurLadyPray4US
Guest
I bolded two things in your post - her feelings and your feelings. I would cut off contact with her, definitely, but I would also find a way to kindly reassure her that I wasn’t mad with her.
If she asks for more of an explanation, you could simply tell her what you said in your opening post - the bolded part. If she is a nice person, she will understand and she will leave you alone afterwards, so as to spare you from any more pain and distress.
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EasterJoy
Guest
If “every guy” thinks that his female friends would have fallen in love with him if he’d been flirty with them instead of acting like himself around them, then “every guy” is suffering from some serious wishful thinking! We do eventually catch on to what you’re really like you know, guys!
Seriously, though, the most likely ways a guy can really mess it up in terms of romance with female friends is a) if the female friends have some fear of a break-up that happens in the full view of their entire social circle, in which case everyone in that circle has to find courtship prospects elsewhere (oh, well) or b) if the “friends” have false good manners that they put on for dates, while the real habitual manners they have around “just friends” show what poor prospects they are for the other half of a lifelong social partnership. Other than that, very few guys who are rejected as dating prospects would have stood any better chance if their first romantic approach was as a flirty stranger or mere acquaintance. Not everyone who finds you likeable is going to fall in love with you. Look at the big picture–that is a good thing!!
BTW, guys with excellent manners around people they are not dating are the kind of guys that their women friends will actually look to match up with somebody. Women do not want to suggest dates to their friends who will embarrass them later. “We didn’t hit it off” is an OK result from a suggested date, but “How could you?” is not. This is why they will tend to play it safe and only “go to bat” for guys they feel are going to be a real catch for someone, guys that the friend who gets him will thank them for. If recriminations are a possible result of their match-making efforts, they’ll just stay out of it.
Oh, and BTW: If a female friend turns you down, and you think of her as a real friend, it does not hurt to ask her what women she thinks might be well-suited. She knows you well, and she wants you to be happy. After all, if you are dating some friend of hers, then the two of you can be “just friends” and she has two friends thanking her for matching them up instead of two friends moaning that they can’t find anybody–what is not to like about that? She may know what kind of woman you are going to attract, and she may know several good women like that. It does not hurt to ask. If she can’t think of anybody, then say, “Well, keep your eye out. It is nice to spend time with you, don’t get me wrong, but I’m not interested in going through life with only platonic friendships.”
If this friend spends a lot of time with you, OP, I very much doubt she thinks you are a “how could you?” sort of prospect. Give her time, she might find someone who will hit it off with you in a way that you can’t have with her. That will be the best for everyone involved.
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EasterJoy
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OK, but people (male and female) get into that category for a reason, and the reason still exists if you start dating as total strangers. The difference is that when you are total strangers you will get in a month or two of dating before you hear “it isn’t you, it is me”–that is “you are going to make a great match for someone, but not for me.” Is it really worse to weed those women out before you put your heart into romancing them? I don’t think so.
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on_the_hill
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EasterJoy
Guest
This is also a good way to explain why you’re going to be spending a lot less time with her. No offense that she turned you down, but no offense if you don’t see a platonic friendship with her as the “golden ring”, either. Finding a girlfriend takes time, and time spent with someone who does not see herself that way is not the way to find a girlfriend.
Besides, looking for other women who do want to date you as a marriage prospect is the way to give her a feel of life without you around, and that may wake her up to some feelings she did not want to admit she had for you because she thought she wanted to avoid getting attached to a guy at this juncture in her life…stranger things have happened. If you want her to pursue you, the message that she cannot presume you’ll be around forever is a good one. I would not let her put you on ice with regards to looking for a wife, at any rate. If a marriage prospect is what you want, then go out and keep looking for a marriage prospect. Don’t spend time with the one who doesn’t think she wants you to catch her. It is better to let her know that you may be the one who is getting away, not her!
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acadiANNA
Guest
The girl has made it clear that she wants to be ‘just friends’. That is where you stand with her. Widen your circle of friends and you will think less of her. Pray and apply yourself to your academic studies. But pray more and ask God for strength to endure the ‘slights’ and do not harbor the pain and disappointment. This has to be one of the most heartbreaking situations in life. God has someone set aside just for you. You’ll see. God bless.
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runningdude
Guest
I have only heard the term in reference to guys wondering why a woman would not have sex with them. The answer being that they “screwed up” and ended up in the “friend zone”, from which, as you said “there is no escape”. It’s a vulgar concept that does nothing to aid chaste dating.
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on_the_hill
Guest
Sure, you can see it that way, but I was thinking in more general terms: if she sees him as nothing more than a friend, his chances of becoming more than that are slim to none.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
I think you need to be a little careful here. A true man will not expect a return favor like a john paying a prostitute. It’s based on mutual respect, and if they guy’s “doting” is romantic communication, then the girl may actually respect and like the guy back. But to me, doting is just an example of some “nice” guy thinking the way to a woman’s heart is self-pity and putting her on this pedestal.
Maybe it should be that way, but it’s anything but that.
It’s not really ever so easy or that clear cut. If you’re a guy, the worst thing you can do is tell a girl you have not flirted with or teased that you love her, want to marry her or even that you have feelings for her just for the sake of finding out if there’s a chance.
You have to work at it.
Besides, that of kind honesty can really freak women out no matter how “nice” the guys rep is.
Men and woman are wired differently.
I don’t think a lot of guys realize that getting pulled into the woods, raped, beaten and killed crosses women’s minds quite often and that being a “nice guy” isn’t what makes a girl feel safe or even attracted to a guy. A guy who communicates romantically will make a woman most at ease.
Well, a guy can interact with a woman in a certain way to make a spark. Sometimes, there’s nothing there and it’s time to move on.
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SuperLuigi
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runningdude
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I object only to the term “friend trap”, not necessarily the commentary it was meant to illustrate, and believe it time to move on…
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on_the_hill
Guest
True, but I’m not sure how many hearts are won if there isn’t at least some attraction to begin with.Not if he communicates romantically.
Girls can change their minds.
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EasterJoy
Guest
This young woman is actually more likely to change her mind if she sees him communicating romantically with some other young woman. What seems daunting when it is unexpectedly aimed at you when you are not ready can become far more interesting when it is something you can’t have at the moment, safely aimed in a different direction. (Safe except that holy cow, I could have had a V-8!) His chance to re-frame himself in her mind as a romantic prospect is to show himself being a romantic prospect in someone else’s direction, and wow, what a very nice romantic prospect. That way she can watch him with her guard down.Not if he communicates romantically.
Girls can change their minds.
If she sees him with some other young woman and she is merely happy for him, they were only ever going to be platonic friends. In that case, though, he’s found himself someone to make him happy, so what has he lost? He’s better off turning his attentions elsewhere in either case! If she is ever going to have a change of heart for him bu she is “I’m happy for you” right now, then that change is some time off. It could happen, but he will harm his chances by too-obviously waiting around for her.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Good advice, however, I would caution the OP not to approach other relationships with the hope it will get the first girl’s attention. There is actually a book on fighting divorce which counsels exactly that— date someone else to re-kindle your separated/divorced partner’s interest. Particularly for guys where the wife has walked out, that somehow a woman seeing others interested in you will cause them to regret/rethink their decision.
Although it works, it strikes me as immoral in that you are playing with someone’s emotions. IMHO, you shouldn’t date one person in the hopes of attracting the attention of another. In reading Easterjoy’s comments, she’s not advocating that position and I feel it should be emphasized.
OP, your situation can be unhealthy in one of two ways-
- If the girl takes advantage of your interest, stringing you along having you doing things for her knowing you’ll be hoping things will change. She’s been admirably up-front with you.
- If you act like ‘a creeper’ devoting a lot of time and energy in the relationship above and beyond what you would for any other friend. As I said before, and as Easterjoy appears to reiterate-- this causes you to stop looking at/considering/searching for other options that are in fact realistic. Spending your life living on wishes and fantasy vice dealing with reality.
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EasterJoy
Guest
That is exactly right–that is
a) It is inexcusably wrong to use other people as a means to get what you want, but especially when you’re trying to get what you want from a third party, at which time you will drop the person you are using. Double that when what you want involves matters of the heart, instead of employment interests or something else that everyone agrees can be bought and sold.
b) It is not good for the OP to spend time wishing for what is not there.
What he wants isn’t there. It isn’t going to be there by wishing the past were different, by second-guessing past actions (except in the area of general self-improvement), or by obsessively looking for signs that the future will be different. If what is being offered is wanted, great: take it. Be a platonic friend. If it is not what is wanted, though, do not fake it in order to get something else and do not feel you’re being a bad person because that is not where you want to spend your time. Just back off and look for another direction for your attentions. Give the platonic friendship as much or as little time as you and this friend mutually feel is a good thing, and without any apologies from the person who has the least time to offer.
If you are open to other romantic pursuits, it is not likely to hurt you and may actually help you with regards to changes in your status with your friend, should the second pursuit not work out. If you’re not open to seeking out a different woman, though, that is OK, too. Those other women you don’t want will thank you. Honestly: Would you date someone while you were holding on to hidden intentions that would warrant the desire to whack you on the head, if it were known? So don’t do the kind of things that would make a decent person want to whack you if they could read your mind. Don’t hang around refusing to hear what you are being told, or your friend may end up wanting to whack you, too. (She doesn’t get to do it, but the temptation is understandable when your wishes are being utterly ignored in the name of “love”.)
I wouldn’t advise dating other women when a wife has left you and you don’t have an annulment, but the OP is not married to the woman who is putting the distance in. The advice applies.
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on_the_hill
Guest
Easier said than done, particularly in matters of the heart.
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