Should I delete my saved tracks if I sell my cd set?

[Ray_Scheel]

If you bought a book of poems, say, one small enough in size that you could photocopy them (for whatever reason … maybe you’re traveling and don’t want the book to get scuffed), but then decided to sell the book. You would be fine to keep those photocopies so long as they were never used for personal gain.

You probably wouldn’t get prosecuted, but it still would not be legal (beyond the temporary “fair use” educational provisions). Not getting easily caught in a criminal activity is not the same thing as that activity being “fine”.

 

[leonie]

Hey, I’ve got enough purgatory time coming!

Don’t worry–I’m deleting my tracks.

 

[thechrismyster]

one option that may save the day…

find the authors email address or physical address, email/write him and simply ask him permission to keep the recordings. you don’t need to explain every detail, just ask for permission. you’d be suprised how often people do this and how often the creator of the work simply says ‘go ahead, no problem’.

if you get an ok from the artist, then no laws are broken.

 

[leonie]

one option that may save the day…

find the authors email address or physical address, email/write him and simply ask him permission to keep the recordings. you don’t need to explain every detail, just ask for permission. you’d be suprised how often people do this and how often the creator of the work simply says ‘go ahead, no problem’.

if you get an ok from the artist, then no laws are broken.

Thanks for the suggestion, Chris. I’ve sent an email asking permission. I’ll wait 30 days and if he hasn’t responded, I’ll erase them then. Or, I’ll erase them immediately if he says no.

The friend I’m selling them to will make very good use of them in her Bible study. I all ready miss them, but I could really use the money.

 

[Brooklyn]

I found a site which talks about what is legal and illegal regarding downloading music. One quote is: “The U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act is much more strict and deems copying of copyrighted music (with the exception of making a copy for your own use) as illegal. The U.S. Code protects copyright owners from the unauthorized reproduction, adaptation or distribution of sound recordings, as well as certain digital performances to the public. **In more general terms, it is considered legal for you to purchase a music CD and record (rip) it to MP3 files for your own use. **Uploading these files via peer-to-peer networks would constitute a breach of the law.”

You can take a look at the site at this link:

webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Internet/2004/music_downloading.asp

But I don’t think you need to delete the tracks you have. It was perfectly legally when you made MP3’s, and it doesn’t suddenly become illegal when you don’t have the CDs.

Mary

 

[wjp984]

Isn’t this what the person is doing in a small scale? So it is ok to do a little wrong?

Just because you don’t get full value for them when you resell the material (who gets full value for used merchandise?), you have no right to violate the license agreement you accepted when purchased. Furthermore, while disagreeing w/ your logic, don’t you think that you should have to pay something for the use you got? Are you one who believes you are entitled to other’s property for free?

There is such a law. It is called copyright law.

Hey, your residual right is the right to sing what you remember in your head (ala remembering what you read in books you sold). Copyright law is the law of the land. More importantly, you accepted the terms of the law when you bought the copyrighted material subject to a license. This is the condition which the originator sold it to you. You don’t get to right your own laws.
You are advocating a violation of copyright law. When one purchases the original music, you actually purchased a licence to use the copyrighted material. You don’t own the material. When you sell or give away the license, your right to use it ceases.

Based on copyright law and the conditions of the originator of the material that you freely accepted when you purchased the material (as per the license agreement), what you advocate is theft which is violation of the 10 Commandments and grave matter.

I honestly could care less about breaking civil laws which I determine do not go against natural law, if I don’t get caught. In my opinion there is nothing sinful about breaking civil laws and I dont even think you are breaking one by keeping the files anyways. Oh, and I interpret the submit to authority passage in the Bible differently than the hardcore keep every law under penalty of sin people. I think it means if you get caught submit but there is no sin involved.

 

[savedsinner]

Not only should you delete them, you should forget everything you learned from them.

 

[Brooklyn]

I honestly could care less about breaking civil laws which I determine do not go against natural law, if I don’t get caught. In my opinion there is nothing sinful about breaking civil laws and I dont even think you are breaking one by keeping the files anyways. Oh, and I interpret the submit to authority passage in the Bible differently than the hardcore keep every law under penalty of sin people. I think it means if you get caught submit but there is no sin involved.

With all due respect, your opinion and my opinion mean nothing. We need to go to the authority of the Church and the Word of God. And according to the Catholic encylopedia, under Civil Obedience, “The citizen’s chief duty is to obey the just laws of his country.”

If you’re interested in the link,

newadvent.org/cathen/03794b.htm

In this case, the OP is being over zealous in that he is not breaking the civil law by keeping the MP3’s he has created. But that doesn’t mean that he or you or I have a right to disregard just civil laws, and the OP should be commended for wanting to know what the right and just action is.

Mary

 

[porthos11]

Thing is, are these copyright stipulations “just”?

Copyright is definitely not part of the moral law, just to be clear on that. That means copying as an act is NOT intrinsically sinful. What can be sinful is the breaking of a duly constituted law of the civil authority. Whether it’s “just” or not is another story. I personally think penalizing situations as the OP’s is ridiculous. Nowhere is it anywhere along the lines of selling them on CD’s, uploading them to P2P or mass-photocopying a book for commercial distribution. It’s just for personal use.

Hence, I would ask the OP (aside from the excellent suggestion to seek permission), to also check out possible permissions granted by the First Sale Doctrine, and the Fair Use clauses. I haven’t been able to look at them in much detail yet.

As for RIAA, MPAA and these other caricatures of “associations”, they can either get with the times, or die.

 

[CapaxDei]

I need to raise some money so I’m going to sell my Jeff Cavins Bible study–Gospel of Matthew. I have a buyer.

If it’s not too late, don’t do it. Speaking from experience… you may very well regret it. The storm will pass.

 

[Orionthehunter]

I honestly could care less about breaking civil laws which I determine do not go against natural law, if I don’t get caught. In my opinion there is nothing sinful about breaking civil laws and I dont even think you are breaking one by keeping the files anyways. Oh, and I interpret the submit to authority passage in the Bible differently than the hardcore keep every law under penalty of sin people. I think it means if you get caught submit but there is no sin involved.

OK. Even so, one must remember that the material was bought with an attached license agreement. The seller sold the original with the license attached and it was a condition under which the seller granted you rights to their material. You accepted the terms morally when you purchased it. If you reject the terms, honesty would require to decline the original purchase. More important than breaking copyright law, you are breaking your word when you freely entered into the contract.

From the Catechism:

2409 Even if it does not contradict the provisions of civil law, any form of unjustly taking and keeping the property of others is against the seventh commandment: thus, deliberate retention of goods lent or of objects lost; business fraud; paying unjust wages; forcing up prices by taking advantage of the ignorance or hardship of another.

2410 Promises must be kept and contracts strictly observed to the extent that the commitments made in them are morally just. A significant part of economic and social life depends on the honoring of contracts between physical or moral persons—commercial contracts of purchase or sale, rental or labor contracts. All contracts must be agreed to and executed in good faith.

Thing is, are these copyright stipulations “just”?

Copyright is definitely not part of the moral law, just to be clear on that. That means copying as an act is NOT intrinsically sinful. What can be sinful is the breaking of a duly constituted law of the civil authority. Whether it’s “just” or not is another story. I personally think penalizing situations as the OP’s is ridiculous. Nowhere is it anywhere along the lines of selling them on CD’s, uploading them to P2P or mass-photocopying a book for commercial distribution. It’s just for personal use.

Hence, I would ask the OP (aside from the excellent suggestion to seek permission), to also check out possible permissions granted by the First Sale Doctrine, and the Fair Use clauses. I haven’t been able to look at them in much detail yet.

As for RIAA, MPAA and these other caricatures of “associations”, they can either get with the times, or die.

As I said above, the purchaser (OP) freely bought the copyrighted material subject to the terms of the license. See the above posts from the Catechism.

On many occassions I have come to the defense of copyrights. I have no interest in them. However, as a father, my children really got into downloading music. They never paid for the “goods”. They saw no harm. It took me much time for them to understand it was theft and a deprivation of the owners livlihood.

For adults to be pase’ about this theft alarms me. As Christian examples to our young we are to uphold a higher standard.

 

[leonie]

If it’s not too late, don’t do it. Speaking from experience… you may very well regret it. The storm will pass.

Too late, I sold it and bought groceries.

Some good friends are going to use it in their Bible Study at their church. That takes the sting out of it a little. Maybe I’ll go to the Bible study.

That’s okay. I’ll survive. In a few years my kids will be old enough to babysit. I’ll get a job and buy all the Catholic media I can fit into my house!!!

 

[thechrismyster]

or you could have sold it for double what it was worth and just rebought the CD for yourself.

gotta love capitalism.

 

[armywife]

OR you could email Jeff Cavins web site and ask permission to keep you downloaded material. I bet the wouldn’t have a problem and then you’d have permission to keep it. Have your cake and eat it too.

 

[leonie]

OR you could email Jeff Cavins web site and ask permission to keep you downloaded material. I bet the wouldn’t have a problem and then you’d have permission to keep it. Have your cake and eat it too.

Yep, all ready have emailed him per Chris’s suggestion.

Giving it 30 days for him to respond.

Hopeful.

 

[paradoxy]

Yep, all ready have emailed him per Chris’s suggestion.

Giving it 30 days for him to respond.

Hopeful.

That really is the best way to go about it. Hope he says it’s OK.

Let us know?

 

[leonie]

That really is the best way to go about it. Hope he says it’s OK.

Let us know?

 

[wjp984]

Alright, maybe it is wrong and sinful but it probably is not a mortal sin so what is the big deal?

 

[Orionthehunter]

Alright, maybe it is wrong and sinful but it probably is not a mortal sin so what is the big deal?

Theft is grave matter. That is a big deal.

 

[leonie]

Alright, maybe it is wrong and sinful but it probably is not a mortal sin so what is the big deal?

I guess it doesn’t seem like a big deal compared to some of the really awful sins that go on. But, it is important to me to not cause further pain to my Lord Jesus if I can prevent it.

There are lots of sins I have indulged in because it didn’t seem like that horrible a thing at the time that now I regret deeply. As you grow older and more mature in your faith, you form your conscience to be more sensitive to all sin.

I’ve got a long way to go, personally. And, I’m definitely not scrupulous–in fact, leaning the other way. , but these little matters can really deform your conscience and weaken your will so the venial sins pile up. Pretty soon, a mortal sin doesn’t seem so grave a matter.

I think I disagree with Orion. I don’t think this particular matter is grave. But, I’m not striving for just avoiding hell. I’m striving for alligning my will with God’s. To hate all sin because He hates it.

Like I said I’ve got a long way to go, but I’ve come a long way, too.