Should I encourage their marriage or support their wishes to leave the marriage

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My sister was married in the Catholic Church 20 years ago, both her and her husband recent college grads with what seemed to be legitimate faith. Fast forward, life, difficulties and challenges… By year 5 or 6 they stopped going to church, began to disagree with church teachings and by year 10 they became non believers. My brother in law is angered by the idea of faith, and unless the Holy Spirit and God and prayers soften his heart, he may never return to the faith. My sister isn’t far off but admits possible embers. They have 3 kids, two of them being my Godchildren of whom the parents don’t like me to bring faith guideance to the kids. For about a year, their marriage has more than stagnated, they’ve discussed divorce, they’re misserable and they have no interest in the church or sacraments or trying any Christian or Catholic programs. I’m trying to help encourage their marriage for the sake of the sacrament, and their kids, but I’m seeing heavy depression in both parents spilling into the kids. Everyone is an emotional wreck, it’s sad. My sister is seeking my advice… And my wife and I understand that couples approach mariatal issues differently when God is a part of their marriage. In this scenario, when neither let God in… Outside of prayers and williness to support and love them…am I being stubborn to support the idea of them trying to make it work, or should I help my sister move on? I’m torn. Thanks all and God Bless
 
This study came out a few years back, but, it was reported in untold sources.

https://www.fact.on.ca/news/news0207/ut02071a.htm

“researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.”
 
My dad “slapped some sense” into his brother and sister-in-law when this happened.

He wasn’t particularly into the Church as he was later, but he laid it on from a secular viewpoint. It is very clear that selfishness and divorce messes up the kids. It is clear that selfishness and divorce messes up adult lives. Religion is very important, but you can set out basic secular principles without ever mentioning God.

When they have their heads out of their butts then perhaps encourage them to start mending that rift with the help of God and the Church.
 
“We love you both and we hope you can find some counseling and work out your issues. We want to see you happy and your family thriving.”

If they separate or divorce you can support them without condoning their behavior.
 
I would encourage them to stay together, but don’t push the religious aspect on them if they don’t want to accept it at this time. Have they tried counseling? Divorce doesn’t necessarily solve problems and it creates more problems of its own such as financial difficulties, emotional toll on children, loneliness, adjusting to life as a single person and having to everything in the household yourself and more.
 
I would continue to advise your sister to try and make it work. I would also let her know you & your wife are praying for her & her family. That would be as far as I would go with religion at this point.

They should enter counseling with a marriage friendly therapist, maybe you could find one and recommend the therapist to your sister. If the husband isn’t interested, she can go alone.

If to comes to the point where they have decided to divorce and are no longer living together, that may be the time to support her moving on.

Keep praying for them and ask others to pray also. Prayer can work miracles even if the folks prayed for are not praying for themselves.
 
jmoburg said:
should I help my sister move on?
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Move on to what? More unhappiness? As others have said, more problems with sharing the kids, the finances, dealing with dating plus having children, it’s much more painful to be divorced, assuming that no one is getting abused, than to work on a marriage.
I would encourage counseling and pray for them.
 
Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies. I appreciate other perspectives, especially from an audience based in our Catholic values. My sister has a long journey, as does their marriage. I pray too that other marriages don’t get to this point…it’s easier to tweak than to rebuild.
 
I understand this is a terribly painful time for your family. I have to suggest you considering butting out of it, though. First of all, it is between your sister and her husband. Second of all, you are coming from a religious perspective and they aren’t religious. It isn’t going to work. If I were in your shoes, I would suggest they seek a good secular marriage counselor who can either help them figure out how to salvage the marriage or how to separate (and divorce) amicably and with the best interest of the children. One thing is for certain, the current environment for the kids, not to mention the adults, is quite unhealthy and something needs to change. If they aren’t religious, their values aren’t going to align with yours when it comes to the concept of marriage. If you would like to support them, I would suggest doing some research on your own to help them find a well-reputed, competent counselor who can help them. Give them a list of names. If money is an issue, offer to help pay for a few of the sessions. If you live close by, take the kids once in a while as the adults try to figure this out. You sound like a wonderful brother who wants the best for his family.
 
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Well… you can encourage your sister until you are blue in the face to make it work but… if your brother in law does not want to make it work, you are in essence encouraging your sister to keep banging her head against the wall. It is really easy to tell your sister what to do when you don’t know what her husband is doing to her.

Also, there is a third option. Let her make her own decisions. Your question seems black or white. ‘Do I encourage her to stay or move on’. At some point, unless she calls and asks for advice, you really don’t have to do anything
 
Your sister is married. That she and her husband have left the faith doesn’t change that. You haven’t mentioned anything* that would justify a divorce, so it would be seriously wrong to encourage one. In addition to the wrong inherent in divorce, it would also likely lead to remarriage, which would likely destroy any chance of your sister returning to the faith.

*If in the future your sister returned to the faith and her husband remained militantly opposed and tried to stop her from teaching the faith to the kids, that could justify separation. But at the present she has no such intention and therefore his militant atheism would be no justification.
 
His sister asked for his advice, so why would/should he butt out? He can tell her to try counseling and try working it out as others have suggested. He can even tell her that he is praying for her despite her wishy washy faith at this time. She is, after all, his sister.
 
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Fascinating responses but it’s easy to judge when one is happy & tranquility exists for him or her.
 
Their decisions need to be based on what is best for their children. Once you become parents, your personal decisions for a life you want with children becomes irrelevant to the decisions for a life for your children with you as a parent in it. As a parent, you don’t get the luxury of pursuing your career how you want it or the person you want to pursue a relationship with. After you have taken care of your children, what little free time you have left is what you have to pursue your own interests. If this means ending a bad marriage so that the parents can keep a civil friendship together and be apart of their children’s lives, then that is what is best for the children so that their parents can have the emotional strength to be the best parents they can. Religion edicts, social norms, etc are second in line of doing right by your children.
The stress of being in a failed marriage is due to the stigma the society places on them for leaving a marriage. So we need to fix our society in that issue. Places like Sweden seem to have figured this out where they can have meaningful relationships and children without ever needing to get married in the first place.
 
Russell_SA said:
The stress of being in a failed marriage is due to the stigma the society places on them for leaving a marriage.
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I have to disagree with this. The problem of divorce is the pain it inflicts on the children. Kids aren’t clued in to society’s expectations; all they know is that daddy doesn’t live with them anymore, and they assume it’s probably their fault for not being a good kid. Any parent tuned in to his or her child will be aware of their pain.
 
The mother can move next to the father and her children for the stability of the family. I know of grandparents that follow their grandchildren around by moving into the homes next door or the apartment next door. That is putting your children first over your career and your personal life. You don’t have to be out of your children’s lives as much as need be as long as the parents are able to leave their relationship before they destroy any ability to have a friendly relationship.
 
I’m so happy to see you care about your sister and her marriage and are willing to get involved. We are not islands. We all need someone to step in and support us through our difficulties or knock some sense into us when we start losing sight of this.

Since you are a man who recognizes the dignity of marriage , you are just the right person to step in. So let’s see, what to do.

Firstly, whether atheists or agnostics, they need to know a few things. 1. All marriages go through crisis, eventually. Seriously. We are pretty horrible people, all of us. Just throw sickness, exhaustion or other pains our way (kids will bring you a whole package) and you’ll find out just how horrible most of us can be!
But what is the beauty of marriage? That despite all of this, that person who knows you best and sees you at your worst continues to love you. You (plural) continue to help each other to become better people, to have a stronger marriage in order to have happier children and lives.

Being alone or a single parent is not better than that. For the children it is a disaster and for personal growth it is counterproductive. Starting over only sets you up for more , and possibly, greater disappointments and makes the children now victims of their parents whims. (Parents who date are simply not as available and dedicated as parents who don’t ).

What’s worse, at the end of the day, in a marriage, you always look back and know that this is the person who has shared your life up until now and who fathered/mothered your children. In future relationships you do not get this consolation and motivation when things get rough.

Logically talk them through the harms and pains of divorce and motivate them to make the best of their marriage. Happiness depends on us, not on anyone else. They need to realize this and start doing something about it.

Offer to watch the kids so they can have more date or counseling nights, host them at your place and help them see and feel the importance of family, help them see the qualities in each other, by affirming them yourself and don’t hesitate to “admonish” them or correct them when they engage in negative discourse or behavior.

There’s a lot that extended family can do for one another in time of crises. Start with prayer and let it lead you to action.
 
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