Should I end this friendship?

[mega1]

I need a Christian opinion on this…

I have a good friend who I hadn’t seen in 10 years. He’s gay and used to work with me and my husband. He’s had a lot of trouble in his life. Lost his job at a very high profile level and we lost touch for awhile. He became an alcoholic and would only call when he needed money. Sad because he was/is extremely smart.

Anyway, he went so broke he had to move in with his mother. 40 years old. She has allowed him to be the caretaker of her second home while he got a masters degree.

He graduated and took over a year to get a very very weak job. He then has another friend offer him room to sleeP for a few weeks in his favorite state so he could shop resumes.

Well he freaked out quickly and I talked him down from a few panic attacks. He ended up moving back with his mom.

Anyway he’s brilliant (intellectually) and I gave him a little freelance work. I told him of he’d like he could use the job in exchange for a plans ticket to come see us. He said yes. Bit then decided he wanted to drive and stop along the way to see about 5 other people. He stayed in hotels and some friends homes.

The goal of my invitation was to allow him to job hunt here He said he wanted to move bavk to my state. When he got here I gave him 250.00 cash (instead of plane ticket). He said thanks and then stayed for 4 days. Ate all of our food. Asked to go out to eat with us and never picked up a single meal of his own…
He bought me a soda once and said don’t say I didn’t get you anything.

He also knows I am in bad financial shape. Bankruptcy. I am working so hard and he didn’t even bring a resume. He left a huge mess (cereal on floor and litter all over). I even allowed him to use our washer and dryer.

After he left, we were all relieved. He went and drove to another long distance friend’s home.

Since he returned I have not wanted to call or email him. I’m upset. And I think he noticed. He sent a thank you note with Hershey kisses candy and a couple of pictures from the trip.

I have helped this man through enormous drama. (even got him out of a suicidal spot once). But I feel he can no longer be in my life. He has dragged me into his drama and I’ve got my own. He really abused our friendship in my opinion.

What do you think?

 

[EasterJoy]

SHORT ANSWER: What friendship?!?

LONG ANSWER:
Let us get out some dictionaries, and remind ourselves how people define “friend”:

*A person whom one knows, likes, and trusts.

a person who you like and enjoy being with

a person who is aware (and I will paraphrase) of how silly you are and will still consent to be seen in public with you. Also: people who make you laugh till you wet yourself

a person attached to another by feelings of affection or personal regard

a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations*

This man is an acquaintance who occasionally finds you useful. You wrote “after he left, we were all relieved,” “I have not wanted to call or email him,” and “I think he noticed. He sent a thank you note with Hershey kisses candy and a couple of pictures from the trip”

Then you wrote: “He really abused our friendship in my opinion.”

How about this: “He abused our friendship and he is trying to buy me off with chocolate drops? Really?”

Probably one guy using you in your life is enough…and an ex is forever. This other guy is not a friend and cutting off the relationship is as likely to do him good as not. It is not only the best for you, it is more likely to be better for him than rewarding his bad behavior with cash and entertainment.

As for you, I am not liking the pattern I am seeing in you! You gave this guy $250? WHY? YOU DON’T HAVE $250!! YOU HAVE DEBTS! YOU OWE PEOPLE MONEY THAT YOU CAN’T REPAY!!

Sorry to shout, but you need to talk to your therapist about this one. Have you ever heard Suze Orman’s adage, “You don’t solve money problems with money”? You are Exhibit A. Until you learn why you extend generosity you can’t afford to people who do not deserve it, you are never going to have financial stability. Your husband is not your problem. Your husband is a symptom. You will not get out of your current troubles without doing a lot more than severing your common conjugal life with him.

Talk to your therapist about this. And hang in there. You will also never have security by beating yourself up. The answer to this issue is not to beat yourself up. That’s just yet one more non-redemptive way of putting yourself last. You deserve to internalize how both real friendship and real almsgiving work. You sound like a very nice lady, but you have those two things seriously confused.

 

[fred_conty]

I don’t know that you can look at it as a friendship but more as a someone who needs help. He sounds deprived of understanding how relationships work and what is necessary to keep a relationship. His social skill is low. And I doubt if you can help him in that area. That may be also at the bottom of his inability at keeping a job. It is very difficult to teach someone that skill. It is almost like they get it or they don’t.

I wouldn’t discontinue with your communication for that is what he needs since that area is what he is poor in. But what you did before for him dosen’t need to be encouraged either. There are all kinds of poor in the world. Just encourage him in any way you can and offer it to Jesus. If this comes between you and your family or takes too much from you, then let it slowly dry up.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[BillP]

As for you, I am not liking the pattern I am seeing in you! You gave this guy $250? WHY? YOU DON’T HAVE $250!! YOU HAVE DEBTS! YOU OWE PEOPLE MONEY THAT YOU CAN’T REPAY!!

Hold on there tiger! The “friend” earned the $250 by doing freelance work.

mega1:

Anyway he’s brilliant (intellectually) and I gave him a little freelance work. I told him of he’d like he could use the job in exchange for a plans ticket to come see us. He said yes. Bit then decided he wanted to drive and stop along the way to see about 5 other people. … When he got here I gave him 250.00 cash (instead of plane ticket).

So the guy was offered a plane ticket for some freelance work, but got $250 in cash instead.

I can’t help feeling there’s some kind of “failure to communicate” here.

For example, the OP writes:

mega1:

. I told him of he’d like he could use the job in exchange for a plans ticket to come see us.

So the guy was invited by the OP

and

mega1:

.The goal of my invitation was to allow him to job hunt here He said he wanted to move bavk to my state.

I wonder if he knew that?

As for the rest, the cereal on the floor and using the washer and dryer, I think that’s pretty minor stuff that’s part & parcel of having house guests.

 

[Xantippe]

mega1 said:

“I even allowed him to use our washer and dryer.”

Letting a houseguest use your washer and dryer is not a huge favor.

But to your general question, I think you may have reached the point where friendship shades over into social work. I’ve been there.

Did he know about your bankruptcy?

 

[mega1]

Yes he knew about the bankruptcy. We have communicated via email and phone daily for over 6 months.

As for the laundry I forgot to include my real point. I ended up doing his laundry.

And yes… He definitely knew the goal of my invite was to resume shop. I even offered to set up network meetings for him.

I offered the plane ticket and he asked weeks later if he could drive instead because we wanted to see more people than me…so I agreed.

 

[Country_Gal]

He is a user, he’s not your friend. It sounds like he manipulates people into giving him stuff.

I wouldn’t make any dramatic break or anything. Just let him quietly slip away. Ignore him, but be cordial if he contacts you. Concentrate on getting out of your own financial mess, and quit worrying about this fellow, he’s not your responsibility.

 

[RoseMary131]

The goal of my invitation was to allow him to job hunt here He said he wanted to move bavk to my state. When he got here I gave him 250.00 cash (instead of plane ticket). He said thanks and then stayed for 4 days. Ate all of our food. Asked to go out to eat with us and never picked up a single meal of his own…
He bought me a soda once and said don’t say I didn’t get you anything.

He also knows I am in bad financial shape. Bankruptcy. I am working so hard and he didn’t even bring a resume. He left a huge mess (cereal on floor and litter all over). I even allowed him to use our washer and dryer.

You have a kind heart, but you need to learn to say “no” without any problems doing so.

Its okay to go back to the 10 years before you have contact again - like before this episode of helping him.

You may also want to check out the book (and book on CD) Boundaries, When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud and John Townsend from the library.

The book may help you get in control of your own boundaries - boundaries with money, boundaries with offers to people, boundaries with how to say “no”.

You were the one who offered him work in exchange for a plane ticket. You said yes to giving him money instead of a plane ticket. Those are your boundaries to maintain.

You were the one who did his laundry - it was your boundary to say - “No, wash your own clothes.”

It was your boundary to decide if your food was included in his staying at your house and to enforce your plan for whose food he ate.

It was your boundary to say “no, you can’t come out to eat with us” or “yes, you can come out to eat with us, but you will need to buy your meal.”

It was your boundary to explain and enforce housekeeping rules - clean up spilled cereal, etc.

It can be very hard for a person to set boundaries and enforce them. You have a kind heart, but you didn’t stand up for your own boundaries - then you feel resentment.

You do not need to reach out to call him or e-mail him. You can throw the thank-you note away and eat the chocolate - or throw it away if it makes you feel resentment.

If he contacts you by phone or e-mail, make sure you have set your boundaries in place before speaking with him or e-mailing him. That means - do not make any offers that you do not truly want to give and be ready to say NO!

 

[silver2soul]

First and foremost his sexual orientation is reason enough to warrant dismissal. If you are walking in JESUS CHRIST we have to separate ourselves to an extent from that which corrupts, that which is noted as immoral. If this individual is unrepentant and does not abhor their orientation and any act that it encompasses; why would you want to have anything to do with the darkness?

**Ephesians 5:5-15

New International Version (NIV)**

5* For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:

“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”

15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise,*

If you love this individual the wise thing to do is express concern for his immorality in lifestyle, then ask him to repent and change for his betterment and walk away if they will not accept the truth of the enemies deception in their lives. Tethering yourself to someone in the state of sin can be very detrimental to your spiritual welfare if they are not in remorse of the sin in their life.

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[BillP]

First and foremost his sexual orientation is reason enough to warrant dismissal. If you are walking in JESUS CHRIST we have to separate ourselves to an extent from that which corrupts, that which is noted as immoral. If this individual is unrepentant and does not abhor their orientation and any act that it encompasses; why would you want to have anything to do with the darkness?

Really? That’s not what the Boss says:

John 13:34-35

34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Nor is it what his designated successor says:

Replied when asked about the Vatican’s alleged “gay lobby” that while a lobby might be an issue, he doesn’t have any problem with the inclination to homosexuality itself: “Who am I to judge them if they’re seeking the Lord in good faith?” he said.

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-homosexuals-who-am-i-judge

Where are you getting this stuff from?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

First and foremost his sexual orientation is reason enough to warrant dismissal. If you are walking in JESUS CHRIST we have to separate ourselves to an extent from that which corrupts, that which is noted as immoral. If this individual is unrepentant and does not abhor their orientation and any act that it encompasses; why would you want to have anything to do with the darkness?e not in remorse of the sin in their life.

Um, Jesus Christ dined with sinners. And the Ephesians passage says we should not be “partners” with them, a Greek word that implies a joint financial venture. That is not the issue here.

I wonder: if none of us spent time around gay people, how would they ever come to know Jesus? Or don’t we care about that?

 

[Catholic1954]

I need a Christian opinion on this…

I have a good friend who I hadn’t seen in 10 years. He’s gay and used to work with me and my husband. He’s had a lot of trouble in his life. Lost his job at a very high profile level and we lost touch for awhile. He became an alcoholic and would only call when he needed money. Sad because he was/is extremely smart.

Anyway, he went so broke he had to move in with his mother. 40 years old. She has allowed him to be the caretaker of her second home while he got a masters degree.

He graduated and took over a year to get a very very weak job. He then has another friend offer him room to sleeP for a few weeks in his favorite state so he could shop resumes.

Well he freaked out quickly and I talked him down from a few panic attacks. He ended up moving back with his mom.

Anyway he’s brilliant (intellectually) and I gave him a little freelance work. I told him of he’d like he could use the job in exchange for a plans ticket to come see us. He said yes. Bit then decided he wanted to drive and stop along the way to see about 5 other people. He stayed in hotels and some friends homes.

The goal of my invitation was to allow him to job hunt here He said he wanted to move bavk to my state. When he got here I gave him 250.00 cash (instead of plane ticket). He said thanks and then stayed for 4 days. Ate all of our food. Asked to go out to eat with us and never picked up a single meal of his own…
He bought me a soda once and said don’t say I didn’t get you anything.

He also knows I am in bad financial shape. Bankruptcy. I am working so hard and he didn’t even bring a resume. He left a huge mess (cereal on floor and litter all over). I even allowed him to use our washer and dryer.

After he left, we were all relieved. He went and drove to another long distance friend’s home.

Since he returned I have not wanted to call or email him. I’m upset. And I think he noticed. He sent a thank you note with Hershey kisses candy and a couple of pictures from the trip.

I have helped this man through enormous drama. (even got him out of a suicidal spot once). But I feel he can no longer be in my life. He has dragged me into his drama and I’ve got my own. He really abused our friendship in my opinion.

What do you think?

I think this guy is a user of people. He has used his own mother, you and other friends to enable his casual lifestyle. You are lucky he left after just a few days and didn’t move in on you and your family. Ending the “friendship” seems like the only sensible way to go.

 

[EasterJoy]

Hold on there tiger! The “friend” earned the $250 by doing freelance work.

So the guy was offered a plane ticket for some freelance work, but got $250 in cash instead.

The question is whether it was $250 she needed to spend somewhere else, anyway. Giving someone else work that you could do yourself or even work that you could put off until you can afford it or get done more cheaply by another vendor is almsgiving, too.

Let us say she looked at this as an “investment” in what could turn out to be a lucrative relationship, because he is so darned brilliant. Knowing that she is well-acquainted with this fellow, is this a such an urgent investment that she must make it in spite of her bankruptcy?

If this wasn’t buttering her piece of bread–that is, if the $250 was not going to give her a positive return in the near term–it was spending money she simply does not have to spend, because it has already been spent.

I can’t help feeling there’s some kind of “failure to communicate” here.

As for the rest, the cereal on the floor and using the washer and dryer, I think that’s pretty minor stuff that’s part & parcel of having house guests.

He stayed four days without reciprocating the hospitality except in a flippant way, and yet he failed to be unobtrusive and not to be burdensome to the household, not only allowing her to do his laundry, but also leaving a mess for her to clean up after him.

I’ve never had a house guest who did that. I have to chase them with a broom if I don’t want my houseguests doing half my routine housework. I don’t see a “failure to communicate,” because training adults who never asked for a lesson is a fruitless and thankless enterprise.

 

[mega1]

My personal opinion is it’s right to help people who need it…no matter their sexual orientation. He was very, very screwed up for awhile. I must admit on some occasions I stayed away from his calls and emails because I knew he was very off…

But, he’s really tried to improve his life. Who am I to judge? I have tried to help him. Mainly by giving him some of my editing jobs…that I would have to pay someone to do anyway. I must admit that I became angry when he didn’t do it on my timeline and he would tell me that he was going to be watching movies all weekend etc. That made me mad. But, I tried to encourage him…get him out of his mother’s house and find a new city to get resumes out! As someone said here, he is brilliant but his attitude takes him down every time. He has been fired from almost every job…for some reason or another. Usually because of his attitude getting in the way.

I am not in a position where I can recommend him for a job. But, I figured I could at least allow him a bed to sleep in for a few days to get resumes out. He told me (in part) he wanted to drive so he could meet with people and pass out resumes. He didn’t even BRING a resume. He said he’s still “working on it”.

He really is a kind person…if I called him and told him I needed something asap…I know he would help me. But, he just has a habit of helping himself first.

I think I’m going to distance myself…but It’s tough. We’ve been very close long distance friends for at least a year now…but now? I just can’t get behind him anymore… I “thought” he was working very hard on self-improvement. But, now…I saw with my own eyes…this is not the case.

Sad…

 

[newf]

OP, you cannot “fix” your friend. It is painful to realize he’s not the person he used to be. And it is okay to let him go. I know it’s hard.

You may feel obliged to help him due to what you used to have with him. But really, you don’t owe him anything, just as he doesn’t owe you anything.

Be grateful for the good things you shared with him. And then pass that good on to others.

 

[Xantippe]

mega1 said:

“But, he’s really tried to improve his life. Who am I to judge? I have tried to help him. Mainly by giving him some of my editing jobs…that I would have to pay someone to do anyway. I must admit that I became angry when he didn’t do it on my timeline and he would tell me that he was going to be watching movies all weekend etc.”

Do you not have more than enough underachieving, disorganized, procrastinating men in your life already?

Go ahead and email and text with him, but don’t provide material assistance unless you are quite sure that 1) your household is solvent and 2) it will actually do him some good.

 

[mega1]

No…that’s my original comment. I don’t WANT to talk to him anymore…at all. And I feel badly about it…so I wanted to make sure I wasn’t being a bad Christian for ignoring him…

It’s time to say adios…

Also… I did realize several times that my complaints (to him/friend) about my husband are EXACTLY the same problems I see in my husband.

Except my husband is far better at being successful and keeping jobs…overachieving (until he quit on his own, of course). He’s never been fired…or rejected from a position. In HIS niche…he’s amazing. (my husband, that is). But…anything outside that boundary is a big concern…

 

[Xantippe]

“I don’t WANT to talk to him anymore…at all. And I feel badly about it…so I wanted to make sure I wasn’t being a bad Christian for ignoring him…”

I don’t think you have to do that, but it is your choice. You don’t have to be friends with everybody.

“Also… I did realize several times that my complaints (to him/friend) about my husband are EXACTLY the same problems I see in my husband.”

Yes.

 

[Country_Gal]

I don’t remember Jesus telling us that we had to be friends with everyone. I think we’re still allowed to choose our friends…

 

[EasterJoy]

No…that’s my original comment. I don’t WANT to talk to him anymore…at all. And I feel badly about it…so I wanted to make sure I wasn’t being a bad Christian for ignoring him…

It’s time to say adios…

Also… I did realize several times that my complaints (to him/friend) about my husband are EXACTLY the same problems I see in my husband.

Except my husband is far better at being successful and keeping jobs…overachieving (until he quit on his own, of course). He’s never been fired…or rejected from a position. In HIS niche…he’s amazing. (my husband, that is). But…anything outside that boundary is a big concern…

Almsgiving is a demand of justice. We have to help somebody out of the means that we have. That does not mean that all giving is good or that all people in need will be helped by simply giving them the things they don’t have. Sometimes giving someone the things they don’t have works against their good, and therefore is not a charitable act. Sometimes a particular means of help is what they must have in order to have their particular poverty addressed, and sometimes we don’t have those means. I think this fellow is in that category. (I mean with regards with what you tried to help him with: his career.)

Also, although we can (and must) judge which behaviors are objectively right and wrong, it is not OK to go around deciding who is and is not culpable for their behavior or to correct those who are not ours to correct or who are not realistically going to profit from our efforts to correct them. We have no more business diagnosing and treating sinners than we do diagnosing and treating people with chest pain. That’s the role of a confessor, a physician of the soul, and even he does not have room to “compete” with regards to the health of the soul any more than a physician can rightly get into some kind of competition with his patients on who is the most healthy. We can help our friends with their sins just about as much as we can help them with their physical troubles. That’s not nothing, but that support rarely includes direct diagnosis and treatment. That does not mean that we are playing doctor when we don’t choose the guy with crushing chest pain to clean our gutters. We are required to exercise some prudence, and not all exercise of prudence is judgemental.

Friendship, on the other hand, is a privileged place of trust. It is, over the years, a mutual give and take, a mutual relationship of support.

In-between are relationships of teaching and mentorship and so on, but you aren’t in a position to be this fellow’s personal philanthropist. If helping him will help you and vice versa, great. If not, you probably each ought to run your own boat through your own rapids. That’s OK. Even true friends do that, sometimes. A true friend would never use a friend in bankruptcy as a money source. That is just irresponsible, like trying to save yourself by choosing to reach out to a boat that is already going gunwale under. You don’t save yourself; you just doom the other person, too.

This is what I mean by how it might help you to differentiate between almsgiving and friendship.