Should I get a divorce/annulment?

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You have been with your wife for 8 years.
You have been married for 4 years.
After 7 years, she still wanted to do stuff together, you didn’t.
After 7 years, she has been wanting children, you didn’t.
After 8 years her biological clock is ticking, yours isn’t.

You say that you have lost interest in her.
You say that you didn’t even feel particularly hurt that she cheated.
You say that you have taken her for granted for the last 2 years.
You say that you have not been putting much effort into your relationship for awhile.
You say that you have different interests, different churches, and major differences.
You say that you have been thinking about all the problems in your relationship.
You say that you have been excited by the idea of being single because you never got to experience life as a single person after college.

She says that you have not been giving her what she needs intellectually and emotionally.
She says that she has been having an affair off and on for the past 8 months.
She says that the affair continued after she confessed the affair.
She says that she is still with the other guy.

You are still on good terms.
You separated 2 months ago
You are asking other people to help you make the decision of “whether we should try to work things out or get a divorce/annulment”
You believe that you could rebuild the relationship if, uh, maybe you were seriously interested in rebuilding the relationship, but uh, well, you don’t even know if you’re particularly interested in rebuilding the relationship, except, uh, well, she was your best friend and she is a nice person and all, except well, we all need to get tested for STD’s here and she needs to be locked away from other guys because they’re just too “tempting” because, uh, well, they actually might share her interests and be actually interested in her and be interested in “doing stuff” with her like wanting to go to a movie with her and spend time with her like she’s an actual human being or something who needs some sort of intellectual, emotional, and spiritual connection with someone who might actually want to have children with her.

You don’t need a wife.
You need a dog.
 
Well, what I think what “former Catholic” might be implying is this:

You may need more maturity and focus, as you try to repair your relationship with your wife. And I might concur with that. If you act like a traditional male, then maybe your wife might want to act like a traditional female - and stop fooling around with other men.

Either way, you need to begin setting boundaries in your relationship. There needs to be limits for acceptable, or unacceptable behavior. And your wife cannot be allowed to associate with this man that she has been carousing with.

There has to be boundaries in relationships, and those boundaries cannot be crossed. I would give the same advice to woman, that I would give to you.
 
I’m very sorry for the situation in which you find yourself~that being locked in a relationship sputtering along with such blatant apathy on both sides. Unfortunately…this is not a box of detergent which can be exchanged at the market…this is a marriage.

There are numerous and significant values/issues on which you differ. You have seen the vows of the marriage strained and broken. There seems to be vague concern on your part about the ongoing extracurricular activity your wife engages in with another man and seeming relief at the prospect of separation or termination of the marriage.

From my perspective you already have one foot out the door. I’m not quite sure what would bring you back? Perhaps your friendship with your wife?

Your first decision is whether you even want to make a serious attempt to fix your marriage? The second question is whether your wife does? If she is unwilling to entirely give up the other relationship…game over…and it’s time for you to move on.

IF she is willing to return to you exclusively and work on the marriage, you need the help of a skilled third party to help you sort out the issues of fidelity and the religious and/or moral framework you will agree to live by as a couple. From there, you must determine how you will communicate your needs honestly & with integrity~without breaching the marital union and the principles you agree to together~even when conflict arises.

You have a long road ahead of you either way. Best wishes.
 
mrpathetic said:
Well, what I think what “former Catholic” might be implying is this:
You may need more maturity and focus, as you try to repair your relationship with your wife. And I might concur with that. If you act like a traditional male, then maybe your wife might want to act like a traditional female - and stop fooling around with other men.
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I’m not implying that at all. I’m saying very flatly that you don’t need a wife, you need a dog.
You want companionship, loyalty, someone who isn’t in your way and doesn’t inconvenience your stressed and busy life and doesn’t have much in the way of emotional, personal, and social needs or serious issues and negotiations to bother you with. You don’t need a wife, you need a dog.

This woman is not “fooling around with other men” when it is one man with whom she is seriously involved and has made it deliberately and abundantly clear that she truly isn’t interested in a marriage that consists of merely going through the motions of mutual role playing. This woman is definitely not fooling, but forcing the issue. by coming forward with the proverbial bullhorn to announce the solid grounds for a nice easy no-contest divorce, volunteering to accept clear blame and keeping the divorce amicable. This woman is definitely not fooling..
 
From what you have said, I think you could make it work. You would both have to really commit to that. You make it sound like your wife would be willing if you would, and from what you have said about your behavior, it sounds to me like she is actually more invested than you are. You said that you are not a very active person - well, clearly not, you have just cashed out when other things took your attention. She, the more active one, actually tried to keep you involved, and when you wouldn’t be involved, took another active rout. I think your sins are likely about equal, they are just the manifestations of different ways of coping.

So - talk, make a commitment, get counseling, make a plan for your lives. Some people have suggested that maybe your marriage was invalid. Well, I may be hitting my head against doctrine here, but even if it was, if you make it work now, it will be valid. Grace and effort on your part can make it a really good relationship - other couples have survived infidelity.

If you do this, your wife will have to stop seeing the friend, but I expect she knows that. You will have to engage with your wife. I would also suggest that going to church separately is better than not going at all, or you could go to both types of services together.

If you decide to leave it behind, I’m not sure where you are then. To date or marry as a Catholic you would have to get an annulment. But if you didn’t put in even the amount of effort required to try to make this work, I don’t see that you have any hope of a better marriage in the future.
 
Upon reading the original post, the overwhelming vibe I got was that you are totally wishy-washy and lukewarm about this. If you don’t care that your wife slept with someone else repeatedly, that ain’t a good sign. It sounds to me like you just plain old don’t love her. Is this true?

You should ask her to start counseling before you make any decisions. Your wife should stop dating until you make a mutual decision. You should search your heart and realize that you make a vow to her and she to you, and you are both making a mockery of that vow.

Oh, and one last thing - that whole “I was never single after college” stuff is total nonsense. So you’re afraid that you’re missing out? On what?
 
former_Catholic said:
This woman is not “fooling around with other men” when it is one man with whom she is seriously involved and has made it deliberately and abundantly clear that she truly isn’t interested in a marriage that consists of merely going through the motions of mutual role playing. This woman is definitely not fooling, but forcing the issue. by coming forward with the proverbial bullhorn to announce the solid grounds for a nice easy no-contest divorce, volunteering to accept clear blame and keeping the divorce amicable. This woman is definitely not fooling..
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Ummm… if you really want out of a relationship - there’s probably better ways of doing it, rather than commit adultery. If that is how this woman communicates, she really needs to work on her communication skills. She probably couldn’t have found a worse of communicating her dissatisfaction with her marriage. That’s like communicating your dissatisfaction with your job by planting a pipe bomb in your boss’ office. There has to be a better way of communicating her displeasure.

No, both husband and spouse seem extremely immature, and lack a serious understanding of what marriage is. Do they really understand the level of commitment it requires? Do they comprehend that it is a lifetime obligation, and requires tremendous amounts of effort and sacrifice? In particular, does the wife understand that the vow “to foresake all others” is a serious obligation - and a commitment to God?

My recommendation: both parties - husband and wife - need serious maturation, and quickly. Rather than have a quicky divorce, they may both want to grow up, and soon. Even if the marriage is annulled, if they don’t mature, then the next relationship for either person could end up the same way.
 
Please read CCC #1601 on the elevation of matrimony to a sacramental covenant.
Then you will fully appreciate your wife.
Thanks for sharing your story…I’ve been happily married for just 12 yrs. with young kids and because of your story, I’m more inspired to appreciate my spouse and work more on my marriage. Relationships do take work for it to succeed. Pray to the Holy Spirit (the novena); I’ve used it and it works.
God bless you.❤️
 
I also will not vote in the poll. But you do have my prayers.

There is no way your wife should ever see this person again, even if it means changing jobs. The temptation is still there.

I would also state that you need to see a priest and a marriage counselor. They may be the same person.

Once you make the commitment to make this work, take a short vacation with your wife with a promise of a bigger one in 3-6 months (that would be Retraoville (I’m mispelling it)

You can do this, but your wife has to be willing to do this as well.

You have my prayers. All of us here are completely ignorant of your situation in your marriage but are completely in tune with your situation as a sinner in need of God’s Grace through His Church and can pray for you.

Bryan
 
mrpathetic said:
Ummm… if you really want out of a relationship - there’s probably better ways of doing it, rather than commit adultery…
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Many women unfortunately do commit adultery (or merely say that they have committed adultery or that they intend to commit adultery or they fake committing adultery) and make a point of announcing it loudly and clearly to their husbands as a specific means of guaranteeing their husbands’ sexual disinterest in them and therefore securing their husbands’ willingness to separate and divorce them amicably. It is generally a method of forcing the issue of divorce after other attempts at communication of dissatisfaction have failed to elicit a response. There are unfortunately few other means available by which an attractive woman can effectively guarantee her husband’s sexual *disinterest *in her and secure his willingness to separate and divorce amicably.
Women get assaulted, raped, beaten, stalked and killed every day by their husbands for threatening to leave their husbands when their husbands’ sexual interest in them has not been defused. It isn’t generally the wives who go building the pipe bombs. It is extremely hazardous to take cookies away from a hungry bear.
 
former_Catholic said:
Many women unfortunately do commit adultery (or merely say that they have committed adultery or that they intend to commit adultery or they fake committing adultery) and make a point of announcing it loudly and clearly to their husbands as a specific means of guaranteeing their husbands’ sexual disinterest in them and therefore securing their husbands’ willingness to separate and divorce them amicably.
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Well, that may be the motivation here. Obviously, the only person who knows is this woman. Is she simply using this other guy as a “fallout boy”? I don’t discount that as a possibility.

Or, it simply could boil down to good, old-fashioned selfishness, and lack of humility. It could just be disobedience towards God and her husband. It could be that this woman is just a spoiled brat, who never grew up.
 
mrpathetic said:
Or, it simply could boil down to good, old-fashioned selfishness, and lack of humility.
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It could just be disobedience towards God and her husband. It could be that this woman is just a spoiled brat, who never grew up.
The absolutely very last thing on the face of this earth that a selfish spoiled brat who never grew up ever wants…ever…
is to have children.
 
Reilly08 said:
Two months ago, I separated with my wife of about four years (we’ve been together for eight years total). We have been having problems for awhile and two months ago she told me that she has been cheating on me with another guy that she has been friends with, off-and-on, for the past eight months. She said after something physical would happen between them, they would feel guilty and not talk for awhile. Then they would talk again with the intention of just being friends, but would get physical again. When she told me about the affair, I thought about it for a few days and then told her that I wanted to work things out. I also told her that she could still be friends with this guy as long as they didn’t hang out at his apartment. This was a mistake. A few days later, they went to see a movie together but ended up going back to his apartment and she cheated on me again.

My wife and I don’t really fight that much and we are still physically attracted to each other but she says I have not been giving her what she needs intellectually and emotionally (I haven’t wanted to spend time with her, share in her interests with her, talk with her, cuddle with her like I used to, etc.). This is why she cheated on me. I understand and I am not as mad at her as you would think, in fact I feel partially responsible because I have not been putting much effort into our relationship for awhile. My wife and I are still on good terms.

Anyway, I’m not sure whether I made the right decision by leaving and am going back and forth about it in my head. She’s still seeing this guy (I did not object since I left). I’m pretty sure I could get him out of the picture if I rededicated myself to her, but I’m not sure if I should/want to. Basically, I got too caught up with school-related stress and wasn’t as into her as I used to be. However, I miss her and I think I would be more interested in her again if I rededicated myself to her and put in more effort. I feel really guilty about losing interest in her. I made a life-long commitment to her. We were only 21 when we started seeing each other exclusively (we’re now 30) and this has been part of the problem for me. I never cheated on her or tried to cheat on her but in my mind I sometimes get excited about the possibility of being single again. I never got to experience life as a single person after college.

The cheating has made me think a lot about other problems in our relationship. She has had other close platonic male friends before. I never thought this was that much of a problem but now I think it is because it puts her in a situation where she can be more easily tempted. We don’t have any kids. When we got married we didn’t want kids at the time but figured that we probably would someday. She has been wanting kids for the past year but I’m not sure if I do or not. We have a lot of different interests and she wants to do stuff together more than I do (she’s more active). She is pretty liberal politically and I am very conservative politically. She is Presbyterian and I am Roman Catholic. I’m not sure how we would raise our children as far as religion is concerned. We used to go to church together but I didn’t like going to the Presbyterian Church and she didn’t like going to the Catholic Church. It feels weird going to church alone because it reminds us of this major difference between us so now we only go to church on Christmas and Easter. Also, we’re both in graduate school which has put us both under a lot of stress.

Despite these major differences, she is the best friend that I have ever had. We enjoy each other’s company, have had many great times together, and she has always been very loyal until she cheated on me. Her actions are very disappointing but I assure you they are also very out of character for her. She is really a wonderful person. If I was a better husband, she may not have had this affair. She has been a great wife and went seven years without cheating on me. Sometimes I think I’m using her cheating as an excuse to give up. I didn’t even feel that hurt when she told me she cheated which is pretty cold. I think this is because I feel partially responsible by taking her for granted. If she cheated 2 years ago I would have been devastated. I don’t know what to do. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice that may help me make a decision? I need to decide whether we should try to work things out or get a divorce/annulment.
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I am sorry you are going through this but I will not take part in your poll. I’ll pray for both you and your wife instead. You should really consider taking this thread down (talk to an admin). This is in bad taste and trivializes the sacrament of marriage. 😦
 
You are in my thoughts and prayers… difficult time for you. You did get married young, but that is no excuse. Since there are doubts in your mind, it seems that time away may help you clear your head… possibly going to mass more often? Going to mass always helps me clear my head and think things through. Prayer helps a great deal.

There is no excuse for cheating on a spouse… even if you think you are to blame, she is in the wrong for giving into temptation and by contradicting her marriage vows. In my opinion…
 
Reilly08 said:
We don’t have any kids. When we got married we didn’t want kids at the time but figured that we probably would someday. She has been wanting kids for the past year but I’m not sure if I do or not. We have a lot of different interests and she wants to do stuff together more than I do (she’s more active). She is pretty liberal politically and I am very conservative politically. She is Presbyterian and I am Roman Catholic. I’m not sure how we would raise our children as far as religion is concerned.
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If you got married with the Church’s approval (either in the Church or with a priest as an official witness) then your wife already promised to raise the children Catholic. If not (assuming you have not joined a non-Catholic church or officially declared yourself an atheist), you aren’t married, and the process for an annulment for “defect of form” takes about a month (after the divorce).
Reilly08 said:
We used to go to church together but I didn’t like going to the Presbyterian Church and she didn’t like going to the Catholic Church. It feels weird going to church alone because it reminds us of this major difference between us so now we only go to church on Christmas and Easter. Also, we’re both in graduate school which has put us both under a lot of stress.
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I’m sorry, I really feel for your situation, but you don’t heal stress by turning away from God. Go to confession. Start going to Mass. Ask this question of God, not of us. He will help you find he right thing to do. He not only knows more about the situation than we do, He knows more about it than you do. 😉

–Jen
 
Allow me to clear a few things up:

I am not basing any of my decisions on the poll or any single person’s advice, just curious what people think I should do, especially fellow Catholics. Sorry if it’s tacky. I have also seen a therapist, a priest, and talked to some close family and friends. I have talked to my wife at length about our relationship many times, of course. I’m trying to get advice from many good sources.

Our situation has not changed. I suggested Retraoville, counseling, going to church together and getting more serious about our faith. She doesn’t think it’s going to work out between us and is still seeing this other guy. I have been going to mass regularly, praying regularly, and have recently been to confession. I will continue to do this. I plan to wait a few more months before getting a divorce/annulment in case she changes her mind, but I won’t wait forever.

Former Catholic, I don’t need the condescending attitude and judgment from you. Re-read my original post, I recognize that I could have been a better husband and that I am partially responsible for the situation we are in. I stopped spending as much time with my wife, etc. mainly because I was crazy busy with my final year of grad school and a part time job, literally working 7 days a week. It’s not because I’m some jerk who treats my wife like a dog. I actually went to grad school for us and our future kids, so I can have a stable job and provide a better life for my family. I never planned on permanently being a workaholic and I’m not very materialistic. I was doing what I needed to do to pay the bills and not flunk out. Still it’s no excuse; I know I could have been a better husband. Also, I never lost sexual interest in my wife. Her affair was not about sex. She’s in love with the other guy, he’s no fallout guy.

Thank you to everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
Reading through your posts, it sounds like you are willing to work on it. Good on you. Going to school and working makes for crazy hours. She should have realized this. It sounds to me like too much of the blame is coming down on you. Seriously, given the parameters set out, your wife straying to another man is all about her.

Keep your wits about you, keep going to church, confession, praying. Continue talking to her for rebuilding the marriage. But like you said, you will have to move on if she is just not willing to do so.

Good luck, and God bless
 
I’d say I’m not completely surprised she found another guy. I’m not saying it’s okay, but I’m not surprised. She feels you don’t care. She has an affair. She tells you about it. You don’t seem to care and (whether or not you think you did) you basically told her she could keep it up. I’d bet she feels unloved by you. Maybe this guy seems to actually care.

I think this whole questions revolves around YOU. Do YOU want this relationship. She seems like she at least wanted it at the time, at least until you basically told her you don’t care that she’s sleeping with other men.

I think you were right in your original post, you are using this as a reason to get out. I think that’s why you opened this poll, so people would tell you she’s a jerk and you should leave.

Why would she think this will work? She tried to get you angry, to show you still cared and you didn’t. She tried it twice and you still gave her permission. I’d be ready to give up too.
 
Arwen037 said:
I’d say I’m not completely surprised she found another guy. I’m not saying it’s okay, but I’m not surprised. She feels you don’t care. She has an affair. She tells you about it. You don’t seem to care and (whether or not you think you did) you basically told her she could keep it up. I’d bet she feels unloved by you. Maybe this guy seems to actually care.

I think this whole questions revolves around YOU. Do YOU want this relationship. She seems like she at least wanted it at the time, at least until you basically told her you don’t care that she’s sleeping with other men.

I think you were right in your original post, you are using this as a reason to get out. I think that’s why you opened this poll, so people would tell you she’s a jerk and you should leave.

Why would she think this will work? She tried to get you angry, to show you still cared and you didn’t. She tried it twice and you still gave her permission. I’d be ready to give up too.
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When she first told me about the affair, it really messed with my head. I thought, do I want to have kids with a woman who would do this? I thought maybe it’s good that this is all happening now so we can divorce before we have kids. I had all kinds of thoughts going through my head.

After some space and lots of thinking I decided that yes, I really do want to make this work. I told her that this guy needs to be out of her life completely for us to work things out. She decided to keep seeing him and not try to work things out. I think it may have taken me too long to make a decision on my end.
 
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