Should I Have The Right To Destroy What I Create?

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Sparkythedog said:
Scifi question: Let’s say I created a conscious machine with the ability to think and feel in ways that are indistinguishable from that of human beings. (By this I mean that, were you to chat anonymously with it online, you couldn’t tell the difference between it and a human.)

Now, let’s say, that I want to use the parts of that machine for a different project. Should I have the right to destroy it?
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Since I am not your conscience, what I would suggest is to ask yourself what is:
  • “right” - On what do you base your idea about what is right or wrong?
  • “create” - Can you actually create anything? Are you not just manipulating things that already exist?
  • “conscious” - What the heck does that mean?
  • “to think in ways that are indistinguishable from that of human beings” - So you would discount the reality of actual thoughts and feelings which you are experiencing in favour of the illusion?
  • You are moving parts/things around. I used to modify my old clunkers, souping them up to 2-3X their original horsepower. They were really finicky and broke down at the most annoying times; So, yeah go for it.
 
10gr8kids said:
^This is what I was going to say.
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I’m not at all clear on what a soul supposedly is or does, and I’m definitely not clear on why simply lacking a soul would automatically give you the right to dismantle the conscious computer.
 
valekhai said:
I’m not at all clear on what a soul supposedly is or does, and I’m definitely not clear on why simply lacking a soul would automatically give you the right to dismantle the conscious computer.
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Because a computer that was created by somebody is their personal property.

Living beings are not property.
 
meltzerboy said:
But what if they think they are due to their consciousness of their existence? There are a couple of Twilight Zone episodes that deal with this conundrum.
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What they think isnt relevant, only reason and logic are.
 
A couple thoughts:
First off, I’m taking this question as correlating to the Christian God. The problem here is that God, at least on Christianity, does not destroy us. We simply move from one state of being (temporal, corporal, etc.) to another. So it would be less like destroying a conscious computer and more like transferring the computer’s consciousness et al. to a human brain so that it can live a more meaningful life (not saying this is possible, just running with the experiment).
Second, God is far more than simply some computer programmer that creates some sentient, conscious computer and then stands and watches. On Christianity (and specifically classical theism) God not only created us but constantly sustains us. He sustains all the matter that makes us. He created the world we live in, allows us to experience what we do, takes an active role in our lives, and is our final judge. This relationship is a far cry from simple property ownership like we know, so I am not sure the analogy is a very strong one. :twocents:
 
Sparkythedog said:
So in my scenario here, I didn’t actually design and create a conscious machine? Are you saying that anything that I (or anyone else) have ever designed and created was actually created by God and not by me (or them)?
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I am saying that unless you yourself was not created, you cannot be free to claim ‘possession’/freehold ownership of anything you may perceive to have ‘created’. In the case of machinery it is not ‘creation’, it is invention and innovation - ‘consciousness’ and self ‘awareness’ is on a mechanical level, devoid, thus far at least of the likes of feeling and emotion, conceptualisation, inspiration and philosophy. You liken a machine to humanity or fauna if you wish, but I feel you are putting it on a level beyond its nature and function.
 
Sparkythedog said:
I hate to do this but - What is a spirit? And where do we find it?
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Not in your body!

Where do you find yourself?

Why do you assume everything is located in time and space?

Where do we find truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love?
 
Aloysium said:
Where don’t we find it?
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What do you mean? I still don’t understand what a soul or spirit is or what It’s function is.

How can you tell if something has a soul/spirit?

How do we know people have souls and not conscious machines?
 
tonyrey said:
Not in your body!

Where do you find yourself?

Why do you assume everything is located in time and space?

Where do we find truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love?
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I find myself here. :confused: In California, I guess. Not sure where you’re going with that one.

The other things you listed are concepts. They are terms for how you brain interprets the world around you.
 
Sparkythedog said:
What do you mean? I still don’t understand what a soul or spirit is or what It’s function is.

How can you tell if something has a soul/spirit?

How do we know people have souls and not conscious machines?
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That’s because you are trying to fit it into some sort of framework or grid.
Spirit has no function.
It is not an object.
People do not have souls; they are souls, which contain everything they “have”.

But these are just words; the spirit is real.
I don’t see how thoughts can reach it.
It is too simple for words.

I would suggest sitting in quiet contemplation/prayer.
It might take a few decades, or a couple of seconds.
Trust me you will laugh.
 
valekhai said:
Empathy, mostly. The things we value most about ourselves and other people are products of their consciousness, so we should value it when we see it. You also have the whole capacity for happiness and suffering aspect to consider.

It’s probably also worth something that consciousness is so very rare, and we tend to value things that are rare.
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Agreed. Those are pretty much my feelings as well.
 
valekhai said:
Empathy, mostly. The things we value most about ourselves and other people are products of their consciousness, so we should value it when we see it. You also have the whole capacity for happiness and suffering aspect to consider.

It’s probably also worth something that consciousness is so very rare, and we tend to value things that are rare.
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Consciousness is self-awareness. Whether or not you have empathy for others has no bearing on it (i.e. psychopaths have consciousness), nor does it matter if you’re in a coma. Consciousness is simply being aware that you as an entity are separate from the world around you. I think what you’re referring to is having a conscience, that little voice inside you telling you what you should or shouldn’t do.
 
Sparkythedog said:
From your perspective, do you think I should be allowed to destroy a conscious entity that I created?
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The word “should” can mean so many different things (indicates obligation, contingency, …). But if you were asking me to cast a vote in a ballot box I would vote not to destroy it. If you were asking me if I would do anything to physically stop you I would say “No.” The entity would be up a creek without a paddle unless it could get protected status in your community. I’ve entertained becoming a vegetarian because of the suffering that gets perpetuated through eating meat. I’m not there yet, but I’ve been progressively moving in that direction.
 
seagal said:
Consciousness is self-awareness. Whether or not you have empathy for others has no bearing on it (i.e. psychopaths have consciousness), nor does it matter if you’re in a coma. Consciousness is simply being aware that you as an entity are separate from the world around you. I think what you’re referring to is having a conscience, that little voice inside you telling you what you should or shouldn’t do.
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No, I’m not referring to a conscience. I’m using the word “consciousness” in a broader sense that would include things like reasoning and feeling, not just self-awareness. Maybe there’s a more accurate term than just “consciousness” to refer to the OP’s computer’s human-like ability to think and feel, like sentience or sapience.

While consciousness (as I’m using the word) is a major moral consideration when dealing with others, it’s not the only consideration, which is why we would still have a moral obligation towards people in comas or with severe mental disabilities.
 
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