Should I invite heretical Protestants to my daughter's Baptism?

[Syele]

her·e·sy http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngcache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif /ˈhɛrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciationher-uh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -sies. 1.opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, esp. of a church or religious system. 2.the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine. 3.Roman Catholic Church. the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church. 4.any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc.

Going strictly by definition, there is nothing wrong with the term. But, I agree it’s not very ecumenical.

True but if we go strictly by dictionary definitions there are lots of words it’d be proper to use that simply aren’t. I’d give examples but they’d be blanked on on this forum because they are NOT proper. Also according to definition 3, most protestants are not heretical since they are not members of the Roman Catholic Church.

On the topic of the OP, I agree 100% with Allforhim. I have attended infant baptisms even though I think it’s a dangerous practice. I wasn’t rude to anyone, didn’t make a scene, and felt honored to be included.

 

[SamDash]

Of course, you should invite them.

As has been pointed out, it’s an opportunity to plant a seed. Maybe they’ll ask you questions. Be ready to answer them. They may simply be touched by the ceremony.

Of course, you can’t force them to accept your invitation.

 

[teachccd]

On the topic of the OP, I agree 100% with Allforhim. I have attended infant baptisms even though I think it’s a dangerous practice. I wasn’t rude to anyone, didn’t make a scene, and felt honored to be included.

Dangerous practice?? That must be one of those words you were talking about. Not much different than heretical…

 

[Hellisreal]

Dangerous practice? :bigyikes:

I cant stop laughing!

 

[Syele]

Dangerous practice? :bigyikes:

I cant stop laughing!

Ok I should have phrased that differently. Since I didn’t, I’ll explain.

I cannot count the number of people who have told me that they are Christians and are going to heaven no matter what because they were baptized as an infant. They are worse than any OSAS person I know about being antinominist. They go around doing whatever they want and don’t even know the tenants of their own religion. I think it’s sad so many people will go to hell because someone let them believe that infant baptism solved everything for them. If you are doing it AND confirmation later(as most people on this forum would), I don’t think it’s “dangerous.”

 

[Hellisreal]

Ok I should have phrased that differently. Since I didn’t, I’ll explain.

I cannot count the number of people who have told me that they are Christians and are **going to heaven no matter what **because they were baptized as an infant. They are worse than any OSAS person I know about being antinominist. They go around doing whatever they want and don’t even know the tenants of their own religion. I think it’s sad so many people will go to hell because **someone let them believe **that infant baptism solved everything for them. If you are doing it AND confirmation later(as most people on this forum would), I don’t think it’s “dangerous.”

Sounds more like the person you describe here was not taught such a thing but has been “self taught” and is in a state of complete ignorance.

I agree with you this person is in grave danger thinking this way.

Thanks for explaining. I never met anyone with such a confident arrogance and astounding ignorance as this person you describe here is overflowing with.

 

[Syele]

Sounds more like the person you describe here was not taught such a thing but has been “self taught” and is in a state of complete ignorance.

I agree with you this person is in grave danger thinking this way.

Thanks for explaining. I never met anyone with such a confident arrogance and astounding ignorance as this person you describe here is overflowing with.

Sadly, it’s a common attitude among so-called “Catholics” I have met in person it’s not just one person. I would refuse to attend an infant baptism for a child that I believed would be one of “those kind of Catholics.” The Catholic Church seems to have a serious problem in catechizing it’s members around here, but that is a topic for another thread.

 

[kentuckyliz]

How would you know that this baby would end up to be one of “those” Catholics? Are you a sooth sayer? Fortune teller? Psychic friend? Tarot reader? Those violate the First Commandment. By the same token, you would never go to the baptism of an adult because they might backslide.

That’s why Baptism is a Sacrament of Initiation. It gets things started, it doesn’t finish the job.

In this crazy post-Christian world, I would never deny the indwelling presence of the Holy Trinity to infants and children. They need all the help they can get!

Answer to OP: invite them as long as they aren’t Jack Chick like and can behave. And please only use “heretical” to refer to disciplined erroneous Catholic theologians like Fr. Joseph Sobrino, to use a recent example. We have no jurisdiction over anyone outside the Catholic Church.

 

[Syele]

How would you know that this baby would end up to be one of “those” Catholics? Are you a sooth sayer? Fortune teller? Psychic friend? Tarot reader? Those violate the First Commandment. By the same token, you would never go to the baptism of an adult because they might backslide.

That’s why Baptism is a Sacrament of Initiation. It gets things started, it doesn’t finish the job.

No I’m not but I’m not stupid either. If their parents do not attend Mass, do not know the beliefs of the Church and don’t live at all like they intend to be Christians. It’s hardly an Initiation.

Children don’t magically grow up Catholic(or any other religion) without anyone making an effort to teach them.

In this crazy post-Christian world, I would never deny the indwelling presence of the Holy Trinity to infants and children. They need all the help they can get!

I didn’t say I’d deny them the indwelling presence of the Holy Trinity. I said I wouldn’t attend.

 

[Hellisreal]

Sadly, it’s a common attitude among so-called “Catholics” I have met in person it’s not just one person. I would refuse to attend an infant baptism for a child that I believed would be one of “those kind of Catholics.” The Catholic Church seems to have a serious problem in catechizing it’s members around here, but that is a topic for another thread.

The problem is all Catholics are responsible to know their faith so all the blame can not be put solely on the CC.
Each person has a responsibility to know their faith.
The fact that some dont care about their faith to learn it can be found in any denomination and any faith as I can assure you of from my experience as well.

 

[Syele]

The problem is all Catholics are responsible to know their faith so all the blame can not be put solely on the CC.
Each person has a responsibility to know their faith.
The fact that some dont care about their faith to learn it can be found in any denomination and any faith as I can assure you of from my experience as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I blame the people as much as the Church.

 

[Mommyof02green]

No I’m not but I’m not stupid either. If their parents do not attend Mass, do not know the beliefs of the Church and don’t live at all like they intend to be Christians. It’s hardly an Initiation.

Children don’t magically grow up Catholic (or any other religion) without anyone making an effort to teach them.

AMEN! That’s my biggest pet peeve, people that just do things because they feel it’s the right thing to do.

They show up for the baby’s baptism. The next time we see them is when the child is about 8 years old for First Holy Communion. Then we don’t see these kids or families again until the child is about 7th/8th grade for confirmation. So basically they show up for just those “special” moments.

This is not just limited to Catholics! I’ve seen it happen in Non-Catholic Churches too.

I have a girl-friend that believes that infants should be baptized. She is bothered by the fact that her now 2 ½ year-old is NOT baptized. Why not you wonder? As much as she believes that her child should be baptized she can’t baptized the child because my girl-friend doesn’t belong to any church.

She has been searching for the last 2 years to find a church that believes what she believes. This is hard for her because she doesn’t even know what she believes; she still trying to figure it out for herself.

She said sure I could walk into the church my family went to when I was young (10 and younger). Sure I could have s/he baptized there because I was baptized there… but if I don’t go to church there or take s/he there to learn about God and stuff what’s the point?

I 100% stand behind her on this issue. I would love to see my friend’s child baptized ASAP. However, I totally understand what she is saying and agree with her. My friend is not sure what baptism does. She just knows in her heart that it’s important for people to be baptized sooner then later. Her preference is infant baptisms.

One thing she said recently to me: I know baptism is important. I want my baby baptized but I can’t do it right now because I don’t know what I believe. But I also know that if my baby dies today God isn’t going to punish my child for not being baptized. I know it because it’s not even her fault it’s mine. Which again I find to be true based on my beliefs.

Should I invite family friends that adhere to heretical Protestant sects that refuse to acknowledge infant baptism?

My opinion “YES”! My In-laws do not believe that its right for an infant to be baptize. They believe that it’s better to wait until the child is old enough to make the decision for themselves. However my In-laws were there. They were there because they love us and they love their grandbabies. They knew that it was important to us (hubby and I); therefore it was important to them.

 

[lak611]

I cannot count the number of people who have told me that they are Christians and are going to heaven no matter what because they were baptized as an infant. They are worse than any OSAS person I know about being antinominist. They go around doing whatever they want and don’t even know the tenants of their own religion. I think it’s sad so many people will go to hell because someone let them believe that infant baptism solved everything for them. If you are doing it AND confirmation later(as most people on this forum would), I don’t think it’s “dangerous.”

I agree with you. If parents of a child do not intend to instruct the child in their faith (be it Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, or any other church that baptises infants); for instance, if the parents last set foot in a church when they were married and now wish to have their child baptised, I believe that the baptism should be delayed until the child asks to be baptised and wants to learn the faith, or until somebody else (a grandparent or other family member says that they will ensure the child is taught their faith. Infants should not be baptised if there is no reasonable expectation that they are going to be taught their faith by their family.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Don’t get me wrong, I blame the people as much as the Church.

I blame the parents MORE then the Church. It is OUR job to teach our kids. It is OUR job to raise them. Children are born to Mothers and Fathers. God places the child into the arms of parents. It’s the job of the parent!

Of course the parents can get help! That is were the Church comes in. The Church is there to help the parents. The Church is there to be a resource, to be an aid, to be an teacher but NOT the sole teacher.

2221 The fecundity of conjugal love cannot be reduced solely to the procreation of children, but must extend to their moral education and their spiritual formation. “The role of parents in education is of such importance that it is almost impossible to provide an adequate substitute.” The right and the duty of parents to educate their children are primordial and inalienable.

2223 Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children. They bear witness to this responsibility first by creating a home where tenderness, forgiveness, respect, fidelity, and disinterested service are the rule. The home is well suited for education in the virtues. This requires an apprenticeship in self-denial, sound judgment, and self-mastery—the preconditions of all true freedom. Parents should teach their children to subordinate the “material and instinctual dimensions to interior and spiritual ones.” Parents have a grave responsibility to give good example to their children. By knowing how to acknowledge their own failings to their children, parents will be better able to guide and correct them:
He who loves his son will not spare the rod. . . . He who disciplines his son will profit by him.

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Now I will admit that our Non-Catholic bothers and sisters have a leg up on us when it comes to providing resource for their Adults. However The CC is doing better. We have www.catholic.com along with other really good Catholic Web-sites. We have TV such as EWTN; we have Radio such as Relevant Radio We have the CCC! Many parishes are doing “Why Catholic” (My diocese is doing Why Catholic {see ministries tab}) and have growing Bible Studies etc. There are even web-based Bible Studies and FREE books for those that want to learn more about the Catholic Faith. The help is there IF people are willing to look for it and ask for it!

Parents need to stop pushing of the education of their children on others and start teaching them. A little bit off topic (but to help make a point) there are several school districts/school/teachers that will NOT give children homework. Why? Because if they did it will not get done…parents are not involved. Many (not all) parents expect the teachers to teach their children and the teacher only… they don’t want to bothered by it. So these parental attitudes of you teach my child is not just limited to religion.

So I just say that parents need to stop relaying on everyone else to do their job for them!
And the excuse that they were never taught as a kid is just that an excuse. Sadly I was one of these children that didn’t know much about my faith until AFTER my confirmation.

I decided that I would learn and started finding resources. I’m still learning and will continue to learn. However, I can pass down my knowledge to my children and I do!

 

[teachccd]

I blame the parents MORE then the Church. It is OUR job to teach our kids. It is OUR job to raise them. Children are born to Mothers and Fathers. God places the child into the arms of parents. It’s the job of the parent!

Of course the parents can get help! That is were the Church comes in. The Church is there to help the parents. The Church is there to be a resource, to be an aid, to be an teacher but NOT the sole teacher.

!

AHEMMM…May I butt in for a second?? The people are the Church. If you are speaking of the heirarchy then catechiesis is a part of who they are. And the primary religious educators of their children are the parents. So the heirarchy recognizes this and cannot be blamed at all. The domestic Church (us, all of us) must provide a faith formation for our children. Anyone who is baptized and automatically believes that they are meriting heaven is as mistaken as anyone simply professing a one time assent of the will and believe that they are saved. Just as dangerous, if you will for the Protestants who believe this. So, as we all can see, it’s not infant baptism that creates the issue. It’s the people themselves. Infant baptism has been practiced for centuries and remains the beautiful sacramental gift from Christ as it always was. Whole households were baptized. See Acts 16. This could easily have included infants and children,God Bless…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Now I will admit that our Non-Catholic bothers and sisters have a leg up on us when it comes to providing resource for their Adults. However The CC is doing better. We have www.catholic.com along with other really good Catholic Web-sites. We have TV such as EWTN; we have Radio such as Relevant Radio We have the CCC! Many parishes are doing “Why Catholic” (My diocese is doing Why Catholic {see ministries tab}) and have growing Bible Studies etc. There are even web-based Bible Studies and FREE books for those that want to learn more about the Catholic Faith. The help is there IF people are willing to look for it and ask for it!

Parents need to stop pushing of the education of their children on others and start teaching them. A little bit off topic (but to help make a point) there are several school districts/school/teachers that will NOT give children homework. Why? Because if they did it will not get done…parents are not involved. Many (not all) parents expect the teachers to teach their children and the teacher only… they don’t want to bothered by it. So these parental attitudes of you teach my child is not just limited to religion.

So I just say that parents need to stop relaying on everyone else to do their job for them!
And the excuse that they were never taught as a kid is just that an excuse. Sadly I was one of these children that didn’t know much about my faith until AFTER my confirmation.

I decided that I would learn and started finding resources. I’m still learning and will continue to learn. However, I can pass down my knowledge to my children and I do!

Very well said:thumbsup: I teach religious education and this could not be more true…teachccd

 

[RevDrNorth]

I have a few family friends that are Methodist, and of course they’re invited to the Baptism of my infant daughter, but my dilemma is:

Should I invite family friends that adhere to heretical Protestant sects that refuse to acknowledge infant baptism?

In Christian charity I would. They may not come but you have taken the high road. Also, what a great witness of love. Who knows the Mass and ceremony may speal to something deep in them and may take root (a year from now or 10 years from now). You represent Christ and the RCC to those people.

Rev North

 

[Gardening_Mommy]

By all means, invite everyone!
Both of our children were adopted. The non-denominational Christian adoption agency insists on doing a pseudo-liturgical prayer thing when the baby goes home… we smile, cross ourselves, pray with them, then hand them an invitation to the baptism with the story of the saint the child was being named after! (our adoption agency now knows WAY more about Catholics than they probably wanted to.) The social workers never came, but the kids’ foster parents have come and were very touched by the emphasis in the form of the sacrament on the responsibility of the parents and Godparents to ensure this child would be raised Catholic.

A couple we are close to is Catholic-married-agnostic. They come, and the agnostic is perfectly respectful and excited to be there for this important event. The nondenom-turned-Episcopalian in-laws always come, even after they were soundly rebuffed with, “No, it is NOT just a ‘baby dedication’, it is baptism, and it is not just a symbol.”

It’s a great chance to invite anyone who normally wouldn’t go near a Catholic church!

 

[mao_now]

I have a few family friends that are Methodist, and of course they’re invited to the Baptism of my infant daughter, but my dilemma is:

Should I invite family friends that adhere to heretical Protestant sects that refuse to acknowledge infant baptism?

By all means! Share the Faith!
God Bless

 

[quantumDeus]

Just a few observations on this thread.

First, in this age of political correctness, it is not proper to address our wayward brothers and sisters in Christ as “heretical” (though, by technical definition, a case for heresy can be made). They are errant.

I noted the post about what gives us (Catholics) the right to judge the faith of Protestants. The assertion is correct, if not the intent of the argument. We cannot judge anyone’s personal faith and belief in God, for we cannot read their heart, so that form of judgment should rightfully be off-limits.

However, we (Catholics) can call these “heretics” (tongue-in-cheek, mind you) to task on the implementation of their faith: that is, their adherence to an organized body’s (sect’s) expressed dogma and doctrine that is contra to early Christian belief and practice and that the Catholic Church advanced through Scripture, Apostolic Tradition and Magisterium.

(As a sidenote, I always find it amusing that Protestants find the Catholic Church’s determination of what constitutes NT Scripture whole-cloth, yet reject Apostolic Tradition and Magisterium. If the Church can inerrantly bring one forward, what is the basis they argue that the Church was errant in advancing the other two aspects of Christian faith and belief?)

And I will add my congratulations on the baptism of the OP’s child. I agree with all those who stated that by all means, invite the “heretics” (again tongue-in-cheekly said). Actions speak louder than words sometimes, and who knows, God may see fit to use the spiritual moment to move them. Evangelizing is not only done by word, actions often speak far louder.