Should I join Rome if I almost agree?

[spoiltvictorian]

Hi all,

I am LCMS. I believe the differences between us and Rome should have been resolved internally (as Luther originally meant.) Therefore we should not have split. But, I think that does not mean I must return to Rome now. There are a few reasons, including:

-I don’t quite agree with every point of doctrine. (On this you cannot convince me otherwise, at least not in one conversation.)
-The Reformation cannot simply be ‘reversed.’ Going back involves more than a reconsideration of the doctrinal differences
-I’m concerned I might dishonor my parents. I’m a grown man with my own family, but I believe it still matters!
-Some Protestants I know act like hipsters when they become Catholic, as if they were choosing a cool band to like, and I distrust my motives that way.
-I wonder whether I there is benefit to staying in my church and working to re-unite it with Rome properly. (Yes, I know that may not eveer happen.) After all, we have very similar views on baptism, communion and absolution by pastors. (Counter-worry: that is un-Christian to be a secret ‘traitor’ in my own church.)

Those are some of the reasons. By now you are thinking I am probably a mess. You may be right. But I would really like some Catholic perspective on all this. And if I respond to some of your posts with arguments, it’s not because I came here to argue, it’s because I really want to be sure your advice is sound. After all, this is about eternity.

Finally, if I go anywhere my whole family is going with me, so don’t worry that I’d cause a split in the immediate family.

 

[jmcrae]

Before I start in on you , I want you know that I’ve been where you are. I understand you perfectly, because I went through all of this. My conversion story is linked in my siggy.

Hi all,

I am LCMS. I believe the differences between us and Rome should have been resolved internally (as Luther originally meant.) Therefore we should not have split. But, I think that does not mean I must return to Rome now. There are a few reasons, including:

-I don’t quite agree with every point of doctrine. (On this you cannot convince me otherwise, at least not in one conversation.)

Truth isn’t about what we agree with; it’s about what’s true. What I would do if I were you (assuming you are serious) is look at your trouble issues one at a time, and do a thorough study of them using the Catechism (use a physical copy that has footnotes, and track the footnotes to their original sources, and read the original sources, as well), to find out the actual Church teachings, rather than whatever caricature the world has out there for you.)

-The Reformation cannot simply be ‘reversed.’ Going back involves more than a reconsideration of the doctrinal differences

Well, it also involves cultural assumptions that would have to be discarded, and it means being around people whose names are hard to pronounce. This, I will admit, can actually be harder than the actual doctrinal issues. But, it is not really a very good reason to quit.

-I’m concerned I might dishonor my parents. I’m a grown man with my own family, but I believe it still matters!

What would you think of a Buddist or Hindu who refused to become a Christian of any kind, due to family tradition, even though he knew or strongly suspected that Jesus is the Christ?

-Some Protestants I know act like hipsters when they become Catholic, as if they were choosing a cool band to like, and I distrust my motives that way.

Nice twist on “Everyone else is doing it.” “Everyone else is doing it wrong; therefore I can’t do it at all.” My advice: don’t let other people’s behaviour influence your important choices.

-I wonder whether I there is benefit to staying in my church and working to re-unite it with Rome properly. (Yes, I know that may not eveer happen.) After all, we have very similar views on baptism, communion and absolution by pastors. (Counter-worry: that is un-Christian to be a secret ‘traitor’ in my own church.)

My decision on this one (after 17 years of trying to make my denomination to be more Catholic) - if it’s not going to happen within your lifetime, then make the switch on your own. Don’t worry about them - God is looking after them.

Finally, if I go anywhere my whole family is going with me, so don’t worry that I’d cause a split in the immediate family.

And again - if it’s not going to happen within your lifetime, make the move without them. It can be done; I’ve done it - yes, it’s hard, and yes, it’s worth it.

 

[Robbinson]

Hi all,

I am LCMS. I believe the differences between us and Rome should have been resolved internally (as Luther originally meant.) Therefore we should not have split. But, I think that does not mean I must return to Rome now. There are a few reasons, including:

-I don’t quite agree with every point of doctrine. (On this you cannot convince me otherwise, at least not in one conversation.)
-The Reformation cannot simply be ‘reversed.’ Going back involves more than a reconsideration of the doctrinal differences
-I’m concerned I might dishonor my parents. I’m a grown man with my own family, but I believe it still matters!
-Some Protestants I know act like hipsters when they become Catholic, as if they were choosing a cool band to like, and I distrust my motives that way.
-I wonder whether I there is benefit to staying in my church and working to re-unite it with Rome properly. (Yes, I know that may not eveer happen.) After all, we have very similar views on baptism, communion and absolution by pastors. (Counter-worry: that is un-Christian to be a secret ‘traitor’ in my own church.)

Those are some of the reasons. By now you are thinking I am probably a mess. You may be right. But I would really like some Catholic perspective on all this. And if I respond to some of your posts with arguments, it’s not because I came here to argue, it’s because I really want to be sure your advice is sound. After all, this is about eternity.

Finally, if I go anywhere my whole family is going with me, so don’t worry that I’d cause a split in the immediate family.

Hi - you may get many different opinions here. I’m Protestant, about the swim the Tiber. I personally would not join the Church until I was in agreement with Church doctrine and in areas where I had personal disagreements, I was prepared to submit in obedience to the Church’s teaching.

I have finally arrived at this point myself after much prayer and study. If I can be helpful to you in your own journey/thought through any issue, feel free to pm me. I read and study the scriptures every day and have spent considerable time study theology and writings from various perspectives. This hardly makes me an expert (no one is), but of all things, I have found the study of Church (early Chrisitan) history to be particularly compelling regarding Catholic Church Traditions and some of the more “difficult” doctrinal issues.

I think its absolutely wonderful that the Holy Spirit has been working in your life to draw you Home. While you may not be ready yet, I suspect that when the time is right for you - you will know it and take the swim. You are lucky/blessed if your family is prepared to join you when/if you are ready.

I am married with 5 children - my wife is supportive of my journey (but not yet prepared to join the Church). Its something I pray about every day.

You and your family will be in my prayers.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Thank you both. It sounds like you are both saying I should remain Lutheran until (if) I agree with everything. I agree there is no other way to study than by primary sources; thank you for the encouragement there.

jmcrae, I don’t agree I should leave if reconciliation will not happen in my lifetime. I’m willing to work my whole life for something this important and never live to see the fruits. I think it is impatient and materialist to demand results within one’s lifetime.

Also, I think my last point about my immediate family was misunderstood. I mean to say that If I tell my wife we are going to become Catholic, she will obey me. A split in the family is not a concern.

 

[puzzleannie]

Those are some of the reasons. By now you are thinking I am probably a mess. You may be right. But I would really like some Catholic perspective on all this. .

here is my Catholic perspective for what it’s worth
first welcome home, no matter how long it takes you to get from the road outside into the house itself.

second, looking at your list of reasons, my suggestion would first to deal with those that have a purely human basis–reaction of some other people who have converted is purely personal to them, as is behavior of some Catholics–or some Lutherans–and does not speak to the truth or falsity of their beliefs, so that can be disregarded when it comes to your personal choice. Reaction of family esp. parents deserves more consideration, and this is hard to do, but in several years experience with this, it seems that those in your position have to differentiate true filial duty from emotions like fear of rejection, jealousy and others that can cloud the true picture.

Likewise, the historical picture, since both “sides” or actually each of several facets of the Reformation and its aftermath interpret those historical events differently. Again, they come down to human reactions to human challenges and situations, and by themselves, do not effect eternal Truth revealed by God.

So your dilema boils down to doctrinal differences. The first way to address these is to find out what the doctrine really is. As a good Lutheran it would seem a good way to begin is to look at what your denomination teaches now–the real teaching divorced from spin some writers and preachers put on it–and how it diverges through history from Luther’s original propositions.

The next logical step would be a good grounding, under Catholic auspices, and a solid catechism class or RCIA program is a good way, is systematic exploration of Catholic teaching–the true teaching w/o the spin and divorced from emotionalism and misbehavior of people who profess to hold those beliefs. If you focus on discovering the Truth, and then in adhering to the Church that teaches that Truth, you will in time find it easy to make your decision. prayers go with you throughout this journey.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you both. It sounds like you are both saying I should remain Lutheran until (if) I agree with everything. I agree there is no other way to study than by primary sources; thank you for the encouragement there.

jmcrae, I don’t agree I should leave if reconciliation will not happen in my lifetime. I’m willing to work my whole life for something this important and never live to see the fruits. I think it is impatient and materialist to demand results within one’s lifetime.

Yes, but why stay on the sinking ship? You’ve already warned them that it’s sinking; what they do with the information is up to them. You have no obligation to go down with the ship.

Also, I think my last point about my immediate family was misunderstood. I mean to say that If I tell my wife we are going to become Catholic, she will obey me. A split in the family is not a concern.

I see. Well, ideally, she should convert because she thinks it’s a good idea; not because you have commanded her to do it. But given the state of so many RCIA programs these days, there’s a good chance she’d be accepted anyway, even without a true heart-conversion. (It seems to me that a great many converts do so for family harmony, and not because they have any idea what the Church teaches, nor any interest in it.)

 

[Genesis315]

It is a cool band–non-hipsters are dealt with accordingly :nunchuk:

(just kidding )

 

[bpbasilphx]

I would suggest you make a careful study of what you say you do not believe, and make sure that what you’re rejecting is in fact what the Church teaches.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Hi all,

I am LCMS. I believe the differences between us and Rome should have been resolved internally (as Luther originally meant.) Therefore we should not have split. But, I think that does not mean I must return to Rome now. There are a few reasons, including:

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Well, you have all been very helpful. I will certainly read Newman and work through these things. Thanks all.