Should I not recieve the Eucharist?

[Chrisshayes]

I’m a cradle Catholic, and as long as I can remember I have received the Eucharist every Sunday. I haven’t been faithful with going to confession, though. I never really considered it a problem. I mean, I’m not killing anyone or having sex outside of marriage, right? Well, recently my teenage daughter, who goes to Catholic school, decided not to take communion at mass. When I asked her why, she said it was because the priest who usually did confessions at school that week had been sick, and so she hadn’t been to confession. Now this is a good kid, not an axe murderer, so it made me curious enough to do some investigation. And lo and behold (isn’t the internet wonderful?) it turned out that there are all sorts of sins that the church considers mortal which need to be confessed before receiving the Eucharist. So then I went to confession. And that’s when I received the news that is really messing with me right now.

I’m a college health physician. There are 16,000 kids enrolled at the university where I work, and I get to be there to guide them and help them to become responsible adults. It’s an awesome job and I love it. But…

College kids have sex. They’re going to do it even if I talk to them about abstinence until I’m blue in the face (and I do). And unless they use birth control when they have sex, college girls are going to get pregnant. NFP is not even on their radar, and half the time they’re not sober enough to remember to even use a condom, much less figure out if they’re in a fertile period of their cycle. So I’m faced with the prospect of either granting their request for birth control or eventually trying (not always successfully) to talk them out of getting an abortion. Definitely a case of the lesser of two evils.

I can’t quit my job. God put me where I am for a reason. I’m making a difference. But all the research I’ve done so far leads me to conclude that providing the means for someone to commit a mortal sin is in itself a mortal sin. So I’ve stopped receiving the Eucharist since my last confession. And unless one of you guys can come up with a loophole, I guess I can’t receive it again until I retire in 9 years. I can’t just confess every week and then receive, since confessing something with the intent to do it again is also a mortal sin. Except that it’s also a sin NOT to receive the Eucharist at least once a year.

So…ummm…help?

 

[27lw]

Hmmm. This is interesting to me. Some thoughts:

1. You prescribe bc pills. You state that the girls are blind drunk when they are having sex. Too drunk to insist on a condom, I presume. Do they not have all kinds of STIs? Do you feel responsible in any way for this, since they probably feel like the have a “free pass” once they have the pill?
2. Does the whole hook-up culture of college not repel you? Don’t you actually feel pity for these kids who must have a warped sense of love / sex / commitment? Maybe you could counsel the girls (and guys!) not to get falling-down drunk in the first place, which would avoid a lot of the problems.
3. BC pills aren’t exactly harmless, are they? Don’t they strongly correlate with clotting strokes, etc?
   Maybe God put you where you are for an even bigger reason. : ) To counsel them to live with some basic morals. It is possible. : )
   There is a great talk I have heard by Pam Stenzel: “sex has a price tag”. She tailors it to either public or private schools. I think its on youtube. Maybe it’s worth watching - - for you, and your patients.
   God bless - - it’s sounds like you are trying your best.
   Maybe there is a different job you could get as a physician, if you cannot do your job in good conscience now that you know better.

 

[Chrisshayes]

Hmmm. This is interesting to me. Some thoughts:

1. You prescribe bc pills. You state that the girls are blind drunk when they are having sex. Too drunk to insist on a condom, I presume. Do they not have all kinds of STIs?

Yes, they do have a high incidence of STIs. We treat those, too.

1. Does the whole hook-up culture of college not repel you? Don’t you actually feel pity for these kids who must have a warped sense of love / sex / commitment? Maybe you could counsel the girls (and guys!) not to get falling-down drunk in the first place, which would avoid a lot of the problems.

Yes, I do feel pity and compassion for them. And every student gets counseling on safer sex (including abstinence is the only thing that’s completely safe) and safer alcohol use (you can’t say no or hear no if you’re too drunk or stoned to have good judgment). They do it anyway. We’re talking college kids, here.

Maybe God put you where you are for an even bigger reason. : ) To counsel them to live with decent morals. It is possible. : )

Yes. I agree. But it they think I’m preaching they turn me off. I have to make it about health rather than morals.

Maybe there is a different job you could get as a physician, if you cannot do your job in good conscience now that you know better.

I could go back into private practice, but that would leave my job open, to be taken by someone who doesn’t love these kids the way I do. Not only that, but college health literature these days is pushing the use of IUDs and free access to condoms in bowls in student health clinic waiting rooms. I require individual counseling before condoms can be given and I won’t use any method of birth control whose primary method of action is the prevention of implantation. My successor probably won’t be so particular. So, honestly, if I must, I’d rather take responsibility for my sin and give up the Eucharist to avoid the sin of sacrilege rather than quit my job.

Thanks for all your excellent suggestions.

 

[1ke]

College kids have sex.

Some college kids have sex.

They’re going to do it even if I talk to them about abstinence until I’m blue in the face (and I do).

Some will, yes. Others will probably make different choices by hearing that it’s OK to make such choices and that many people do make the choice to abstain.

And unless they use birth control when they have sex, college girls are going to get pregnant.

Pregnancy is often a logical consequence of intercourse. That does not mean you are free to encourage them to engage in contracepted sex.

NFP is not even on their radar

Both sex and natural family planning belong in marriage.

Fertility awareness can be taught to young ladies in middle and high school and beyond and is an excellent means of monitoring their health, but it is not meant for engaging in sex.

So I’m faced with the prospect of either granting their request for birth control or eventually trying (not always successfully) to talk them out of getting an abortion. Definitely a case of the lesser of two evils.

Both are evils. You are not free to directly provide them with contraception, if I’m understanding “granting their request” means without your permission they cannot obtain it.

This is formal cooperation with evil and ALWAYS wrong.

I can’t quit my job. God put me where I am for a reason. I’m making a difference.

Well, maybe it’s not the reason you think. God also put your daughter’s well formed conscience in your path for a reason-- perhaps to prompt you to your own spiritual awakening.

But all the research I’ve done so far leads me to conclude that providing the means for someone to commit a mortal sin is in itself a mortal sin.

Yep.

So I’ve stopped receiving the Eucharist since my last confession. And unless one of you guys can come up with a loophole, I guess I can’t receive it again until I retire in 9 years.

Or you could open your heart to other possibilities. Because remaining in a state of mortal sin is both dangerous and not a good example for your children.

So…ummm…help?

Maybe God has awakened your conscience so that you can minister to college aged men and women in a different way. He may be closing one door but opening another window.

Be open to other options. Don’t simply close your mind and say “oh well, I will just sin for nine more years.”

 

[27lw]

Those are good and thoughtful responses Chris. I can tell you are trying your best to help the kids. I have to tell you, when I read your post, I feel less inclined to send my kids away to college. Everything I read lately indicates that the atmosphere is toxic to the moral values I have tried to teach my kids, and it’ll be hard to resist when they are surrounded by the truly trashy environment.
Maybe you could write a tell-all book to scare parents. I think that is the only way to “help” the kids, so that parents know this stuff before they send their kids and their money away to Big State U.
As for the Eucharist, yes, I think that is all you can do, is not receive. I have been in a similar boat lately - - I have a sin that I am trying to detach from. I thought I was able to give it up in December, but I have backslid. So I don’t receive either these days.
Maybe over time, you’ll see things in a different light.

 

[Thorolfr]

Maybe God has awakened your conscience so that you can minister to college aged men and women in a different way. He may be closing one door but opening another window. /QUOTE]

Unless it’s a Catholic college and all the students are Catholics, is it appropriate for a doctor to express his Catholic religious views to a patient? If my doctor started preaching to me, I’d change doctors right away since I’d be concerned that he was giving me advice based on his religion rather than the best medical advice.

 

[Thorolfr]

Maybe God has awakened your conscience so that you can minister to college aged men and women in a different way. He may be closing one door but opening another window. /QUOTE]

Unless it’s a Catholic college and all the students are Catholics, is it appropriate for a doctor to express his Catholic religious views to a patient? If my doctor started preaching to me, I’d change doctors right away since I’d be concerned that he was giving me advice based on his religion rather than the best medical advice.

 

[Thorolfr]

Maybe God has awakened your conscience so that you can minister to college aged men and women in a different way. He may be closing one door but opening another window.

Unless it’s a Catholic college and all the students are Catholics, is it appropriate for a doctor to express his Catholic religious views to a patient? If my doctor started preaching to me, I’d change doctors right away since I’d be concerned that he was giving me advice based on his religion rather than the best medical advice.

 

[27lw]

Unless it’s a Catholic college and all the students are Catholics, is it appropriate for a doctor to express his Catholic religious views to a patient? If my doctor started preaching to me, I’d change doctors right away since I’d be concerned that he was giving me advice based on his religion rather than the best medical advice.

Well, I think doctors “preach” to their patients all the time. I think the talk that I mentioned “sex has a price tag” sums it up. Maybe he could tell his patients that. The risks are:

1. STIs - - some of them lifelong, or potentially life-threatening.
2. Risk of pregnancy.
3. Emotional troubles - - casual sex and the hookup culture don’r nurture people (especially young women) emotionally, and are probably emotionally damaging.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

What you should do is talk to a priest about this. What concerns me is how you said if anybody can come up with a “loophole” The Church is not about legalism. Also, it is alarming how so many people think that as long as they have never killed anybody, they are in a state of grace. For the record, I am a ex felon and have been to jail a few times and so many criminals think they are not such bad people even though they HAVE killed people. The point is we as people can very easily justify why we do what we do, whether we know it is wrong or not. Also, we are required, as Catholic, to seek out the truth. If we never strive to understand what is sin, and the different levels so that we can avoid them and we just assume we do not sin (or do not sin that bad) this is being ignorant by choice. How do we know if we sin seriously or not if we do not care to learn what is serious sin? This is serious matter. Talk to a priest about it. Make a appointment. I cannot see any priest telling you that it is ok to tell college kids to use condoms or get on the pill. The Church teaches that those things are inherently evil. No amount of mental gymnastics can change that and there is no loophole. I would abstain for the time being, but that is just me. I am not telling you what to do. I cannot judge if you are in a state of grace or not. Good luck and God bless.

 

[1ke]

Unless it’s a Catholic college and all the students are Catholics, is it appropriate for a doctor to express his Catholic religious views to a patient?

I think you need to reread what I wrote. I said the OP may be called to minister to them in a different way.

But since you asked, a doctor certainly can express their views to patients or anyone else. This is still a free country last time I checked. Maybe getting less free by the day.

If my doctor started preaching to me, I’d change doctors right away since I’d be concerned that he was giving me advice based on his religion rather than the best medical advice.

You are free to take your business elsewhere. There are many physicians who do not prescribe contraception, both Catholic and non Catholic. They have thriving practices, so clearly not everyone holds your position.

There are many people who oppose contraceptives on moral grounds and many who oppose them on medical grounds. And why can an opinion and decision not be formed by both moral and medical information? (that is rhetorical by the way. As Christians we are certainly called to form our conscience in conformity with God’s law, our duty is to God above all else.)

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

You may find it useful to consult with the NCBC, National Catholic Bioethics Center. See ncbcenter.org/page.aspx?pid=1172 for their phone number and online consultation form. They say “The NCBC offers free consultation service by a credentialed bioethicist who can share with you the Catholic principles for addressing an ethical dilemma involving health care or the life sciences.”

 

[powerofk]

Honestly, I think this is better a question you ask a faithful priest. Two priests are found on the “Ask an Apologist” board here - you could ask them. See, the thing is, even if the sin being committed is grave matter, it isn’t necessarily mortal. Since it appears that you are an employee of the state (as all public K-12 and university staff are), you are caught being required to fulfill the demands of the state. To me, it seems almost like the case of the Catholic county clerk being forced to sign off on marriage certificates for same-sex couples. His/her only choices are to either follow the state’s directive or resign. In your case, your choices are to either follow the directives of the university or step down. That’s pretty much it. Or, of course, you could defy the directives of the university by refusing to prescribe hormonal birth control methods - then have young women complain about you to the dean, resulting in your firing. It’s not an easy answer what to do, really - and so, that’s why you should consult your pastor (hopefully he’s a good priest) or ask the priests here.

 

[TK421]

I would look into the Catholic bioethics center for more information on this matter. This is a complex question and deserves far better than an internet forum. I don’t know the specifics of what you do with your job, but everybody from store clerks to random truck drivers and a thousand other professions have a hand in the material process of producing, distributing, selling, and prescribing contraceptives, which the buyer will use to commit a grave sin. Are you giving people pep talks about wearing condoms and taking the pill?

What I would like to comment on though is your statement that by prescribing contraceptives, you could/would likely be saving a life from abortion. I think it’s an almost perfect parallel to say that by giving a heroine addict heroine, you prevent them from becoming madly desperate and doing something violent, so it’s better to give them what they want. It’s not a solution. It is precisely the promulgation of easy, casual, non-sacred sex that is creating the culture of divorce, serial divorce, abortion, unnatural relations of various sorts, porn addiction, rape, sex trafficking, and millions upon millions of families that are either wounded or destroyed entirely, all in the name of the pelvic area. Contraceptives provide deceptive short-term benefits but cause enormous damage to society in the long-term. In this sense, contraception really isn’t at all unique from any other sin that the enemy sends our way. It is pleasing/desirable by appearance, but ultimately, it does not satisfy.

 

[808Catholic]

I’m a cradle Catholic, and as long as I can remember I have received the Eucharist every Sunday. I haven’t been faithful with going to confession, though. I never really considered it a problem. I mean, I’m not killing anyone or having sex outside of marriage, right? Well, recently my teenage daughter, who goes to Catholic school, decided not to take communion at mass. When I asked her why, she said it was because the priest who usually did confessions at school that week had been sick, and so she hadn’t been to confession. Now this is a good kid, not an axe murderer, so it made me curious enough to do some investigation. And lo and behold (isn’t the internet wonderful?) it turned out that there are all sorts of sins that the church considers mortal which need to be confessed before receiving the Eucharist. So then I went to confession. And that’s when I received the news that is really messing with me right now.

I’m a college health physician. There are 16,000 kids enrolled at the university where I work, and I get to be there to guide them and help them to become responsible adults. It’s an awesome job and I love it. But…

College kids have sex. They’re going to do it even if I talk to them about abstinence until I’m blue in the face (and I do). And unless they use birth control when they have sex, college girls are going to get pregnant. NFP is not even on their radar, and half the time they’re not sober enough to remember to even use a condom, much less figure out if they’re in a fertile period of their cycle. So I’m faced with the prospect of either granting their request for birth control or eventually trying (not always successfully) to talk them out of getting an abortion. Definitely a case of the lesser of two evils.

I can’t quit my job. God put me where I am for a reason. I’m making a difference. But all the research I’ve done so far leads me to conclude that providing the means for someone to commit a mortal sin is in itself a mortal sin. So I’ve stopped receiving the Eucharist since my last confession. And unless one of you guys can come up with a loophole, I guess I can’t receive it again until I retire in 9 years. I can’t just confess every week and then receive, since confessing something with the intent to do it again is also a mortal sin. Except that it’s also a sin NOT to receive the Eucharist at least once a year.

So…ummm…help?

Suggest you speak with a priest. This is way too complex to be left to the opinions on this forum.

 

[Vico]

…So I’m faced with the prospect of either granting their request for birth control or eventually trying (not always successfully) to talk them out of getting an abortion. Definitely a case of the lesser of two evils. …help?

Even some that choose to use birth control methods will get pregnant and then choose abortion. It is God that has given that free will, so of course they will use that power to ignore your council sometimes.

Independent choices:

• promote birth control
• council against birth control
• promote abortion
• council against abortion

 

[eamonnroma]

I’m a cradle Catholic, and as long as I can remember I have received the Eucharist every Sunday. I haven’t been faithful with going to confession, though. I never really considered it a problem. I mean, I’m not killing anyone or having sex outside of marriage, right? Well, recently my teenage daughter, who goes to Catholic school, decided not to take communion at mass. When I asked her why, she said it was because the priest who usually did confessions at school that week had been sick, and so she hadn’t been to confession. Now this is a good kid, not an axe murderer, so it made me curious enough to do some investigation. And lo and behold (isn’t the internet wonderful?) it turned out that there are all sorts of sins that the church considers mortal which need to be confessed before receiving the Eucharist. So then I went to confession. And that’s when I received the news that is really messing with me right now.

I’m a college health physician. There are 16,000 kids enrolled at the university where I work, and I get to be there to guide them and help them to become responsible adults. It’s an awesome job and I love it. But…

College kids have sex. They’re going to do it even if I talk to them about abstinence until I’m blue in the face (and I do). And unless they use birth control when they have sex, college girls are going to get pregnant. NFP is not even on their radar, and half the time they’re not sober enough to remember to even use a condom, much less figure out if they’re in a fertile period of their cycle. So I’m faced with the prospect of either granting their request for birth control or eventually trying (not always successfully) to talk them out of getting an abortion. Definitely a case of the lesser of two evils.

I can’t quit my job. God put me where I am for a reason. I’m making a difference. But all the research I’ve done so far leads me to conclude that providing the means for someone to commit a mortal sin is in itself a mortal sin. So I’ve stopped receiving the Eucharist since my last confession. And unless one of you guys can come up with a loophole, I guess I can’t receive it again until I retire in 9 years. I can’t just confess every week and then receive, since confessing something with the intent to do it again is also a mortal sin. Except that it’s also a sin NOT to receive the Eucharist at least once a year.

So…ummm…help?

I suppose that it would be ok to prescirbe bc pill to non catholic girls, as for them it is not sinful…

 

[TK421]

I suppose that it would be ok to prescirbe bc pill to non catholic girls, as for them it is not sinful…

Sin is always sin. It doesn’t matter what religion, language, race, sex, or personality you have. Also, it doesn’t matter how culpable or not culpable you may be: the harmful temporal effects of sin are still going to occur.

Consider the difference between a person that does not build a shelter because they are crippled, and another person that does not build a shelter because they don’t feel like it. Both people are going to end up exposed to the elements and suffer as a result. The crippled person might not be culpable of what happened in the way that the other person is, but he is still going to suffer the results just as much as the other person.

Likewise, many people have no or little Christian foundation, and are not culpable for contraception to nearly the degree as someone who was blessed with a Christian foundation to provide them much peace, wisdom & happiness for their life. Nonetheless, a culture of contraception & non-sacred sex will still inflict a host of pain & loneliness upon the society. Divorce, serial divorce, cheap one-night sex that does not satisfy, rape, sex trafficking, an overabundance of childless “marriages”, unnatural relations of many sorts, and an increase of selfishness and discontent. The person is not spared from that regardless of how culpable they are.

The Gospel is not a burdensome series of rules that the ignorant pagan is spared from following. It is a recipe to a light yoke, an easy burden, freedom, and happiness, which the pagan misses out on. That is why Christianity is missionary at its core. It wants - it burns - for everybody to have what it has, and what it has is not merely a philosophy, but a Family. It burns to share this Good News so much that it is even prepared to risk and lose its own life in the act.

 

[smichhertz]

I’m a college health physician. There are 16,000 kids enrolled at the university where I work, and I get to be there to guide them and help them to become responsible adults. It’s an awesome job and I love it. But…

College kids have sex. They’re going to do it even if I talk to them about abstinence until I’m blue in the face (and I do). And unless they use birth control when they have sex, college girls are going to get pregnant. NFP is not even on their radar, and half the time they’re not sober enough to remember to even use a condom, much less figure out if they’re in a fertile period of their cycle. So I’m faced with the prospect of either granting their request for birth control or eventually trying (not always successfully) to talk them out of getting an abortion. Definitely a case of the lesser of two evils.

Hi Chrisshayes,

One of my friends is a physician. She always mentions this during job interviews to ensure the employer is aware she won’t prescribe birth control on religious reasons. Essentially what happens is if a patient wants a prescription to birth control, someone else will write the prescription.

I’m not sure how feasible it would be - but could you maybe talk to your boss? Just be honest and say “I’ve been Catholic my whole life and I just found out that I’m not allowed to prescribe birth control on religious reasons.” Then maybe try to work out some deal like above?

Hope that helps!

 

[1ke]

I suppose that it would be ok to prescirbe bc pill to non catholic girls, as for them it is not sinful…

For everyone it is gravely contrary to God’s law. Not just Catholics. There are many evangelicals who have arrived back at the Catholic teaching on their own. This grave sin is knowable to those outside the Faith. We certainly do them no favors pretending it is “ok” for them.