Should I raise my son Catholic?

[youdontsay]

I think that you are very confused about what the Church teaches and what the sacraments are. If you think that a Catholic can abandon the Church you are wrong, age of baptism does not matter. If you were correct with your idea of assent to baptism then the sacrament would not be valid at all either if the person leaves the Church or stays with the Church, with your assumption only adult baptism is valid. Confirmation is a sacrament that does not require personal choice either, as an example we can see that in a lot of cases infants are confirmed in the faith.

Is there anything you can show me in terms of official church teaching that backs up this statement? I have never even heard of an infant being confirmed, much less do I know one. According to the Catechism it is only bestowed upon those old enough to understand its meaning.

Also, remember, the Church recognizes one Baptism. So whether he was Baptised Catholic or Lutheran, it is all one Baptism into the body of Christ in the eyes of the Church… any vows taken that day in terms of raising him Catholic were vows my wife and I took… not my son.

 

[Brightest_Star]

Here are my thoughts on it;

I think you have overwhelmed yourself, and you need to put your trust in God.

I understand where you’re coming from completely, I can see you are focused on saving your son, and you are willing to resort to desperate measures to do it - but you don’t have to. God will help you lead your son. God will help you guide him. The Holy Spirit will stay with your son as he faces his challenges. Jesus will comfort him when he’s confused. It is not you who will save your sons soul, it is Jesus Christ. And his soul will not be saved by trickery or innocence, it is saved by the blood and the flesh.

You bring your son to Church, because God asked you to. You bring your son to Church because you want to give him an example of what a good man is. You bring your son to Church because you can bond there, and he will always have those memories of you and him and Church, together…

You do the one little part God has asked you to do, you teach him the faith. You let Jesus Christ save his soul. Trust Him. This is not a burden He wants you to carry, so let it go.

 

[youdontsay]

@Brightest_Star - Thank you, this is the best piece of feedback I have gotten so far. I guess at the end of the day every Catholic parent has to face the ‘what if’ scenerio where the faith doesn’t stick with their children. I just feel like my sense of that is a little hightened right now given what is going on. Every child faces an uphill battle, but my son will be at an even greater disadvantage because i was a poor judge of character 6 years ago. I would give everything, my life and my own soul to try to make this easier for him… this isn’t fair to him, he doesn’t deserve this.

 

[1ke]

Is there anything you can show me in terms of official church teaching that backs up this statement? I have never even heard of an infant being confirmed, much less do I know one.

ALL infants in the various rites of the Easter Catholic Churches (i.e. Byzantine Catholic, Melkite, Chaldean, etc) receive baptism, confirmation, and communion at the same time as infants.

In the Latin Rite, confirmation and eucharist are delayed until about the age of discretion, unless in danger of death.

Also, remember, the Church recognizes one Baptism. So whether he was Baptised Catholic or Lutheran, it is all one Baptism into the body of Christ in the eyes of the Church… any vows taken that day in terms of raising him Catholic were vows my wife and I took… not my son.

This is not entirely true.

Baptism into the Catholic Church binds him to all ecclesial law in addition to incorporating him into the Body of Christ.

 

[Veronica97]

*** If you know he has missed Mass, explain to him why he can’t take communion. ***

Cristiano, thank you for pointing out my error. That actually is quite a relief to know both for the OP and for me.

 

[Cristiano]

Is there anything you can show me in terms of official church teaching that backs up this statement? I have never even heard of an infant being confirmed, much less do I know one. According to the Catechism it is only bestowed upon those old enough to understand its meaning.

Also, remember, the Church recognizes one Baptism. So whether he was Baptised Catholic or Lutheran, it is all one Baptism into the body of Christ in the eyes of the Church… any vows taken that day in terms of raising him Catholic were vows my wife and I took… not my son.

Well we have about 22 out of 23 Catholic Churches that confirm infants in the same ceremony immediately after the baptism. A brief history is mentioned in paragraphs 1286-1292 of the CCC. That means that confirmation does not require assent and that it is made it clear in the paragraphs 1307 and 1308 of the CCC. If you want to have a better understanding of confirmation you could read the article by Msgr. Charles Pope: Clarifying the Confusion on Confirmation.

When it comes to baptism you are either empowered by the Church to make decisions on his behalf or you are not. If you are then the baptism is valid and the child as a Catholic is bound by his obligations like every other Catholic, if you are not then the baptism is not valid and if he dies he still is in a state of original sin, this is basic sacramental theology.

This is the case where I would quote Fr. Vincent Serpa when he said:

“One mortal sin does not justify another. It’s God you are dealing with here. Let Him in. You are acting like He is the enemy and needs to be out-witted so that you and your wife can have your own way. Who are you kidding? Why not pray to Him for your wife’s enlightenment, rather than offend Him in such a way?”

 

[1ke]

A couple of people have said this so far, and I dont think that is true. I can’t find anything in the Catechism that clarifies this, but he was baptized at a few months old, he obviously didnt make a choice there, I did.

Yes, he was baptized into the Catholic Church when he was a few months old. You, as his parent, had the right and obligation to make this decision on his behalf. He is Catholic. He cannot be anything other than Catholic. It is baptism that makes one Catholic and binds one irrevocably to both the divine precepts and Church ecclesial law.

Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.

Can. 96 By baptism one is incorporated into the Church of Christ and is constituted a person in it with the duties and rights which are proper to Christians in keeping with their condition, insofar as they are in ecclesiastical communion and unless a legitimately issued sanction stands in the way.

Can. 111 §1. Through the reception of baptism, the child of parents who belong to the Latin Church is enrolled in it, or, if one or the other does not belong to it, both parents have chosen by mutual agreement to have the offspring baptized in the Latin Church. If there is no mutual agreement, however, the child is enrolled in the ritual Church to which the father belongs.

Can. 204 §1. The Christian faithful are those who, inasmuch as they have been incorporated in Christ through baptism, have been constituted as the people of God. For this reason, made sharers in their own way in Christ’s priestly, prophetic, and royal function, they are called to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world, in accord with the condition proper to each.

§2. This Church, constituted and organized in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church governed by the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him.

Can. 205 Those baptized are fully in the communion of the Catholic Church on this earth who are joined with Christ in its visible structure by the bonds of the profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical governance.

Can. 849 Baptism, the gateway to the sacraments and necessary for salvation by actual reception or at least by desire, is validly conferred only by a washing of true water with the proper form of words. Through baptism men and women are freed from sin, are reborn as children of God, and, configured to Christ by an indelible character, are incorporated into the Church.

In my opinion, and again I couldnt find an official ruling here, I dont think this obligation is on my son at all until after confermation… that’s when he makes the choice. Otherwise what is the point, confermation is “… conferred only on persons old enough to understand it”. But until then, in the eyes of the church he is a child.

Not at all.

In confirmation, it is the **bishop **who is doing the confirming, not you and not your son. What is being confirmed? Your baptism. Confirmation is the completion of baptism. It does not incorporate one into the Catholic Church. One is already Catholic before receiving this sacrament.

This document might be helpful to you in understanding that Confirmation is not a choice to be a Catholic:

ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.htm

 

[Brightest_Star]

You’re very much welcome. You are a good father and a good man, there’s no need to be so hard on yourself. Do you think Mary and Joseph thought their son ‘deserved’ to be born in a barn? haha. Take a little life lesson from them; don’t allow yourself to stay in the barn, lamenting about it. Get back on the mule and move forward, lest evil catch you there while you wallow.

Adversity touches us all, you just need to remember to keep your faith and keep moving* forward* with it. You are not alone.
:console:

 

[EasterJoy]

A couple of people have said this so far, and I dont think that is true. I can’t find anything in the Catechism that clarifies this, but he was baptized at a few months old, he obviously didnt make a choice there, I did. In my opinion, and again I couldnt find an official ruling here, I dont think this obligation is on my son at all until after confermation… that’s when he makes the choice. Otherwise what is the point, confermation is “… conferred only on persons old enough to understand it”. But until then, in the eyes of the church he is a child.

Yes, and you have a duty to raise him as a Catholic. The Catholic faith is not a burden and a danger to the soul but rather the ordinary means by which human beings are to learn to know, love, and serve God, so as to find a true and full life in Christ both now and forever. The Catholic faith is a great good and your son’s birthright as the child of a Catholic, and you have no right whatsoever to deny him of it, especially not now that you have had him baptised and promised God and the Church that you would raise him in the faith. This is from Canon Law:

Can. 867 §1. Parents are obliged to take care that infants are baptized in the first few weeks; as soon as possible after the birth or even before it, they are to go to the pastor to request the sacrament for their child and to be prepared properly for it.

MIXED MARRIAGES

Can. 1124 Without express permission of the competent authority, a marriage is prohibited between two baptized persons of whom one is baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it after baptism and has not defected from it by a formal act and the other of whom is enrolled in a Church or ecclesial community not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

Can. 1125 The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:

1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

2/ the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party;

3/ both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage which neither of the contracting parties is to exclude.

Can. 1136 **Parents have the most grave duty **and the primary right to take care as best they can for the physical, social, cultural, moral, and religious education of their offspring.

This is from the Rite of Baptism, at which time you already promised to raise your son a Catholic:

Celebrant: [Parents Name], what name do you give your [daughter/ son]?

Parents: [Child’s Name].

Celebrant: What do you ask of God’s Church for [Child’s Name]?

Parents: Baptism.

Celebrant: You have asked to have your [daughter/ son] baptized. In doing so you are accepting the responsibility of training [her/ him] in the practice of the faith. It will be your duty to bring [her/ him] up to keep God’s commandments as Christ taught us, by loving God and our neighbor. Do you clearly understand what you are undertaking?

Parents: We do.

…

Celebrant: Dear parents and godparents: You have come here to present your [daughter/son] for baptism. By water and the Holy Spirit [she/ he] is to receive the gift of new life from God, who is love.

On your part, you must make it your constant care to bring [daughter/ son] up in the practice of the faith. See that the divine life which God gives [her/ him] is kept safe from the poison of sin, to grow always stronger in [her/ him] heart.

If your faith makes you ready to accept this responsibility, renew now the vows of your own baptism. Reject sin; profess your faith in Christ Jesus. This is the faith of the Church. This is the faith in which this child is about to be baptized.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know a fellow who was baptised and then not raised in the faith. He started dating a woman who was some Protestant denomination, and she asked what he was. He had to go ask his mother. She was shocked that he did not know he was Catholic, to which he retorted: How would I know, Mom? You never took us to church!

That fellow was cheated by his parents, and he knew it. What if your son wants to know why you denied him the practice of his faith? What excuse could you have? That you thought he’d have a better chance of Heaven if he were denied the sacraments, denied the Eucharist, denied Confession, denied the celebration of the liturgical year, denied knowledge of the faith…denied all he had a right to expect from you?

And what if he does not like it? “Son, I gave you the faith I had. What else could I give you?”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I know what my obligation is. If I have to decide between salvation for myself or salvation for my son, I think you know the choice there. Again, I would just have to hope God can forgive me… but my primary concern is my son’s soul. There is nothing any attorney can do here. She has custody every other week and thus can take him to whatever church she sees fit, that part isn’t up for discussion unfortunately.

Well here’s the thing…A lot of studies suggest strongly that in a dual-faith family, the children usually either follow the father’s faith, or end up with no faith. You have the advantage because your son will want to be like you. So be the best Catholic dad that you can, and brook no quarter from him or your wife about him being a Protestant. He IS a Catholic and you are his father. Teach him and guide him going forward. Do as much Catholic father and son stuff as you can. Get other Catholic males into his life too. Uncles, friends, teachers, coaches. Enroll him in parochial school. Steep him in the Church and its truth. Do not even think of the alternative. Keep him on that narrow path.

 

[JK61]

I constantly hear that the father attending church has a huge influence on their children’s faith. What would you do on the weekends he has with you- leave him at home. You can only take care of his faith during the times you have him - do your best during that time. You can only give him the information he needs - it is his responsibility to follow the right path. Actions speak louder than words. Show him the way and hopefully he will see the love you have for the church.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

OP, you are acting as if your son has not been baptized, or as if the baptism is meaningless. HE IS A CATHOLIC by his baptism and he has a right to be taught his faith, as well as receive the sacraments. He is NOT a Protestant. He is not a non-denominational. Grow up him up to see the world as a Catholic. He is not left faithless while his parents divorce. He HAS a faith, you gave him one! Now teach him to love and value it!

 

[Califman831]

The Catholic faith is the pure drinking water of God’s salvation, why would a parent give their kid anything else.

 

[BettyBoop416]

The terms of the divorce state I only get custody every other week, so he will be going to church with me those weeks and with her at whatever church she ends up going to the next week.

When you say that you “only get custody every other week,” do you mean that you have shared custody and your son lives with you for seven out of every 14 days? Or do you mean that your ex-wife has custody and you get visitation every other week-end?

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

When you say that you “only get custody every other week,” do you mean that you have shared custody and your son lives with you for seven out of every 14 days? Or do you mean that your ex-wife has custody and you get visitation every other week-end?

Good question. :angel1:

To our OP, I would say that I agree with everyone here who says that your son IS a Catholic and hope you raise him that way.

That said, what are your wife’s plans on the weekends she will attend her protestant church? Can you somehow manage to :harp:agree between the two of you that it is best for the child to attend Mass with you, and to not attend protestant services, which will be confusing?

This may have to be addressed legally, as she has deserted the Catholic faith now and may want him to attend her new church.

Your son has the grace of being baptized as a Catholic. He is a Catholic and everything you can do to allow him, and yourself, to attend Mass together, to give him positive re-enforcement on that is extremely important.

My :grouphug::hug1:heart :heart:goes out to you as you are facing so much, but God is Great. My concern would be that your wife does not confuse your son by insisting that he attend a protestant church during those times that he is visiting with her.

If you are sharing custody or not, this is a most important issue. But you must never feel that giving up your Catholic faith will in any way help your son. Raise him Catholic, and please do all you can to ensure that your ex-wife agrees not to interfere or confuse him.
Peace
Kathryn Ann:heaven:

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Good luck convincing the ex wife that it’s in her son’s best interests that he not attend church with her.

Furthermore prenuptial agreements dealing with.the religious upbringing of children are not honored, so I sincerely doubt that a court would intervene and decide how the child should be raised when it comes to religion. That would be a huge 1st amendment violation to tell someone that they can’t teach their child religion or take them to church.

 

[mamaslo]

Well here’s the thing…A lot of studies suggest strongly that in a dual-faith family, the children usually either follow the father’s faith, or end up with no faith. You have the advantage because your son will want to be like you. So be the best Catholic dad that you can, and brook no quarter from him or your wife about him being a Protestant. He IS a Catholic and you are his father. Teach him and guide him going forward. Do as much Catholic father and son stuff as you can. Get other Catholic males into his life too. Uncles, friends, teachers, coaches. Enroll him in parochial school. Steep him in the Church and its truth. Do not even think of the alternative. Keep him on that narrow path.

See if you have a Fraternus Chapter nearby too…That is for Men and their sons.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Good luck convincing the ex wife that it’s in her son’s best interests that he not attend church with her.

Furthermore prenuptial agreements dealing with.the religious upbringing of children are not honored, so I sincerely doubt that a court would intervene and decide how the child should be raised when it comes to religion. That would be a huge 1st amendment violation to tell someone that they can’t teach their child religion or take them to church.

Luck won’t be a factor, rather God’s help will be a great part of all this. That’s why I hope they can come to some understanding for the sake of their son, remembering how precious is a child’s soul. And most people I know do not have prenups anyway.

A Catholic pastor can often advise where courts are powerless to intervene, as the psychological and spiritual aspects of a child’s upbringing are always of utmost important in custody issues. Divorce is such a challenging time for all concerned. Having been through it myself, as well as a Church annulment and re-marriage in the Catholic Church, I know God can see us all through if only we will lean on His wisdom and listen carefully to advice from loving family and friends.

The OP here seems only to want to do the very best for his son. My heart goes out to this family.

 

[EasterJoy]

Good luck convincing the ex wife that it’s in her son’s best interests that he not attend church with her.

Furthermore prenuptial agreements dealing with.the religious upbringing of children are not honored, so I sincerely doubt that a court would intervene and decide how the child should be raised when it comes to religion. That would be a huge 1st amendment violation to tell someone that they can’t teach their child religion or take them to church.

The OP can only do what he can do. It is not worthy laying awake nights worrying about things that only God or someone else controls. If he does his duty, he does not need to worry that his son’s soul will be in greater danger. That would be like worrying that a child who is only fed nutritious food once in awhile is less likely to like nutritious food than the junk food they get most of the time. It doesn’t work like that. Rather, even an occasional exposure to what is real and good has the chance of giving a person a “taste” for what is the best for them.